New Bounder 300M 21st Century Scientific

[fishinjunky]

Use the chair first for some time and see how you feel - you may not need to swap anything - it wont be cheap if you did go down that road

you can find many Rnet parts online - ebay etc, - but not sure its worth all that trouble IF your are ok with the setup -

i like to hear how it works with that linx - have you used it yet - ? Rnet does give you alot of options to adjust - you have more adjustments you can make on yours than i have with mines and i got used to mines enough that it dosnt bother me -

that maybe the case with your also - you may just be fine that way it is - or with some adjustments you can make - use it the whole summer and see if anything bothers you enough to want to change it - you may not want to after some use -

Your right I have it dialed in an only the slow speed while tilting is only thing I would like to change but cant But that's really no biggy. Its something I may consider down the road. But the bounder and controls are great I can romp the hell out of this chair and no worries I love it. I didn't get the linx gyro module because I didn't want the corrections from it and its 1000$ bucks lol but I'd like to know if anyone else has a linx gyro module

[expresso]

you cant ride fast in tilt or any other function anyway - my chair may be a bit slower when tilted or lifted etc, - it does not feel it at all - that thing goes fast no matter what - if it was slowed down lets say 50 percent slower - that would still be 6 mph i never tired it

i rather be safe down all the way not tilted to ride -

is your chair brand new - watch the chains - they stretch - need adjustments for a half dozen times give or take - then should be fine - but clean them after each use if you want it smooth

[fishinjunky]

you cant ride fast in tilt or any other function anyway - my chair may be a bit slower when tilted or lifted etc, - it does not feel it at all - that thing goes fast no matter what - if it was slowed down lets say 50 percent slower - that would still be 6 mph i never tired it

i rather be safe down all the way not tilted to ride -

is your chair brand new - watch the chains - they stretch - need adjustments for a half dozen times give or take - then should be fine - but clean them after each use if you want it smooth

Its brand new how difficult is it to adjust the chains? It doesn't look to hard according to the manual. But nothing is really simple when you have to direct someone else to do it lol

I ordered the cleaner and grease you recommended. May be difficult to get to the chains though now that they have a gaurd

[expresso]

i clean mines from the back of the chair - spray - use wire brush - both sides then move the chair forward - do it again and again till its all covered and done - i have no chain guard does the chain guard cover the rear of the chain also or just the sides ?

adjusting isn't hard but yes i agree when you have to direct someone - which i do also - i dont do it myself - after a dozen tries or less - you get the hang of it

the level they say to open - they call it the clutch - - you can loosen the top nut a bit - and the nut behind it a bit - open the clutch - then i believe you tighten the top nut a bit first and close the clutch to see how it feels the chain - if its good - then the rear nut behind the clutch - just hand tighten and leave it

the front nut - just a 1/4 turn tighten - not alot and should be good - check the chain for play - what works out for me is having a little more play than you would think - check it when you move the chair - it tightens up - and when you let go of the JS it would have a little slack again


you have to use it a few time to know where the right spot is - since the chain stretches when new - i would check it before and after each use - adjust - clean and use it again - after a half dozen times - depends how much you use the chair - should be settled - i havnt adjusted mines in a very long time -

i check it after cleaning - and before i use it - just to be sure - i am going on 3 years with this chair this Sept. i believe - same chain - if you make it too tight - when you use it - feels like grinding - and going up hills you feel it and sounds bad - too loose - it can fall off - so far so good i didnt have that issue

but my friend who has one also - his did at first - he dosnt listen to me - so never adjusted or cleans it - his fell off - it sucks if that happens to anyone but i be really stuck if it did - i am usually far away - what i did now is carry the tools i need to adjust it - in the event - not that i can do it - but if someone is around to help - i can offer the tools and can be done - once the chain is back on - i carry a screwdriver for that reason - and ratchet socket for the clutch adjustments

have you read the manual ? if you dont want to worry too much - dont read it mines says to yell for help if chair dosnt stop -

[fishinjunky]

i clean mines from the back of the chair - spray - use wire brush - both sides then move the chair forward - do it again and again till its all covered and done - i have no chain guard does the chain guard cover the rear of the chain also or just the sides ?

adjusting isn't hard but yes i agree when you have to direct someone - which i do also - i dont do it myself - after a dozen tries or less - you get the hang of it

the level they say to open - they call it the clutch - - you can loosen the top nut a bit - and the nut behind it a bit - open the clutch - then i believe you tighten the top nut a bit first and close the clutch to see how it feels the chain - if its good - then the rear nut behind the clutch - just hand tighten and leave it

the front nut - just a 1/4 turn tighten - not alot and should be good - check the chain for play - what works out for me is having a little more play than you would think - check it when you move the chair - it tightens up - and when you let go of the JS it would have a little slack again


you have to use it a few time to know where the right spot is - since the chain stretches when new - i would check it before and after each use - adjust - clean and use it again - after a half dozen times - depends how much you use the chair - should be settled - i havnt adjusted mines in a very long time -

i check it after cleaning - and before i use it - just to be sure - i am going on 3 years with this chair this Sept. i believe - same chain - if you make it too tight - when you use it - feels like grinding - and going up hills you feel it and sounds bad - too loose - it can fall off - so far so good i didnt have that issue

but my friend who has one also - his did at first - he dosnt listen to me - so never adjusted or cleans it - his fell off - it sucks if that happens to anyone but i be really stuck if it did - i am usually far away - what i did now is carry the tools i need to adjust it - in the event - not that i can do it - but if someone is around to help - i can offer the tools and can be done - once the chain is back on - i carry a screwdriver for that reason - and ratchet socket for the clutch adjustments

have you read the manual ? if you dont want to worry too much - dont read it mines says to yell for help if chair dosnt stop -

Awsome thanks that helps alot I can get to the chain from the back. The cover covers the sides.
Lol that's funny

[expresso]

how does the chain guard stay in place ?

i wonder if its a good idea to get one also - i guess if your outdoors and a rock hits the chain - can knock it off - what i noticed is you have to be careful with turning in tight spaces or alot of movement turning around or side to side etc,

you see what i mean when you start using it - but once you moving it tighens up thats why dont over tighten it - needs a little slack

i think i have mines a bit more than what the manual says 1/4 inch slack when moving it with your hand on the top - i may have 1/2inch slack

not alot more but seems to work better - its not stressed and feels smoother sounds smooth - when clean - if you dont clean it - you will feel it grind and sounds harsh - noisy etc,

15 mins to clean the way i do it - and your fine - once a year - in the winter - i remove the brake on the side - clean it inside good - brake area and front sprocket - better - 4 screws to remove - slide it off - its best to be on top of it - less problems in the long run -

i wonder if changing your rear tires are the same as mine - its different than other chairs - mines you dont bolt the two piece rim together with tire on - like most chairs - you have the tire together - then slide it on the hub etc,
well this chair - mines is not like that -

you slide the rim with tire on then bolt it together - its strange - not sure why its done that way - i wonder if they made it easier on the 300M

when i ordered new tires - i though i was getting just the rim and tire mounted - then just put on the chair - not the case

i ended up with a whole new rear end sprocket - with the tire mounted on it - but i didnt need the whole set up - so i have a spare -

you put the rim on the chair its not bolted together yet - then the front part of the rim - then bolt it together - and hope it works -

it did so cant be too hard - tech did it - first of its kind - tech likes to work on the bounder - my tires are worn already - will need another set this winter if i can make it all summer - fronts dont wear out much at all - rears do - you will like locking up the rears

[fishinjunky]

how does the chain guard stay in place ?

i wonder if its a good idea to get one also - i guess if your outdoors and a rock hits the chain - can knock it off - what i noticed is you have to be careful with turning in tight spaces or alot of movement turning around or side to side etc,

you see what i mean when you start using it - but once you moving it tighens up thats why dont over tighten it - needs a little slack

i think i have mines a bit more than what the manual says 1/4 inch slack when moving it with your hand on the top - i may have 1/2inch slack

not alot more but seems to work better - its not stressed and feels smoother sounds smooth - when clean - if you dont clean it - you will feel it grind and sounds harsh - noisy etc,

15 mins to clean the way i do it - and your fine - once a year - in the winter - i remove the brake on the side - clean it inside good - brake area and front sprocket - better - 4 screws to remove - slide it off - its best to be on top of it - less problems in the long run -

i wonder if changing your rear tires are the same as mine - its different than other chairs - mines you dont bolt the two piece rim together with tire on - like most chairs - you have the tire together - then slide it on the hub etc,
well this chair - mines is not like that -

you slide the rim with tire on then bolt it together - its strange - not sure why its done that way - i wonder if they made it easier on the 300M

when i ordered new tires - i though i was getting just the rim and tire mounted - then just put on the chair - not the case

i ended up with a whole new rear end sprocket - with the tire mounted on it - but i didnt need the whole set up - so i have a spare -

you put the rim on the chair its not bolted together yet - then the front part of the rim - then bolt it together - and hope it works -

it did so cant be too hard - tech did it - first of its kind - tech likes to work on the bounder - my tires are worn already - will need another set this winter if i can make it all summer - fronts dont wear out much at all - rears do - you will like locking up the rears

i think the chain guards are bolted on. I checked the chains last night and they are still tight and clean the guards must help alot with keeping clean. I would email 21st century an see what the price for guards for your chair would be an if theyre compatible.

i believe the rear tire setup it the same on mine.

thanks for the great advice really helps

[fishinjunky]

I am kicking myself in the but for not atleast trying to see if Medicare would cover the lithium battery i saw someone on here got it covered. i would build a lithium battery but i dont have a helper willing to build it with me directing them how to. I dont use alot of battery but would be nice to have. Ill try getting it approved once the gel ones need replaced. And the Linx gyro module. I should have tried getting those 2 things approved. Im going to try at a later date. I have Medicare and Medicaid. and the naugahyde cover for the power module.

[Burgerman]

Its barely worth the effort. A bounder can fit a group 27 100Ah lead battery. Or a 100Ah lithium. You will gain a small amount of range due to the fact that theres no peukert effect on lithium. But unless you run it to below a safe level you wont gain much range at all.

The real advantages of lithium DONE PROPERLY is that you CAN get 200Ah in place of a 70Ah grp24 batt. Or 250+ Ah in place of a grp27 100Ah lead battery.

In both cases giving 4 to 5 times the original lead range. With the advantage that it will usually be discharged at a lower C rate, and daily to a lesser depth of discharge, and charged less frequently like every 3 days or so. All which means it will have a greater cycle life, over 3x the calender time too.

[fishinjunky]

Its barely worth the effort. A bounder can fit a group 27 100Ah lead battery. Or a 100Ah lithium. You will gain a small amount of range due to the fact that theres no peukert effect on lithium. But unless you run it to below a safe level you wont gain much range at all.

The real advantages of lithium DONE PROPERLY is that you CAN get 200Ah in place of a 70Ah grp24 batt. Or 250+ Ah in place of a grp27 100Ah lead battery.

In both cases giving 4 to 5 times the original lead range. With the advantage that it will usually be discharged at a lower C rate, and daily to a lesser depth of discharge, and charged less frequently like every 3 days or so. All which means it will have a greater cycle life, over 3x the calender time too.

so pretty much its not worth it unless i built my own 200ah lithium battery. If that isnt a option for me would a group 100ah lead battery be any better than the group 24 gel. Im going to be looking for a helper to build a lithium maybe in the future but for now no luck

[fishinjunky]

the lithium battery from bounder is 3750$ and 500$ for the charger lol. I doubt Medicare and Medicaid would have covered it anyway. But they would have covered the linx gyro module i just wonder how useful the gyro would have been. I havnt heard anything on them

[Burgerman]

so pretty much its not worth it unless i built my own 200ah lithium battery. If that isnt a option for me would a group 100ah lead battery be any better than the group 24 gel. Im going to be looking for a helper to build a lithium maybe in the future but for now no luck

Yes you gain 30Ah. But you need to talk to bounder as it needs a bigger battery box. Not sure what else needs to change too. Its partly self defeating thoug as bigger lead batteries increase weight and this reduces range and performance.

One advantage of fitting 200A of lithium is that its still lighter than 70Ah of lead. While giving the same range as 4 to 5 full sets of lead bricks. Thats means 8 to 10 lead batteries!

[Burgerman]

A few years ago expresso who isnt know for rapid absorption of information said it was all beyond him. He had never soldered a wire, no clue about batteries and all the rest. And couldnt do anything for himself. Relied on carers. As I mostly do. And no tools etc. But he listened.

Now many years on he has built many packs, for himself and others in new york. He just read what was explained to him. And posted about 1 million posts and questions. And now regularly wanders around doing many miles across new york.

He has the worst case scenario for range. He has the highest speeds, heaviest chairs up to 12mph and the slowest slowest chair is 8mph. That all eats batteries faster and reduces range. Nevertheless he regularly posts GPS logged distances like this one of a 68 mile trip.

[expresso]

You could have tried to get it covered - lithium from insurance - i got mines covered - and another person on here did also -

i tried and got it - if i didnt get it covered - i would have made a pack - the battery box on the bounder - is a grp 24 size - if you have shocks on your chair - to get the grp 27 size on it - they dont add the shocks to make up for the space needed

with the 100ah from bounder in the chair - it was not enough - so i added an extra 80ah ADD on and that did the trick - its enough now with out worry and if you run low enough - the chair BMS on the bounder will shut off - but i keep going off my ADD ON - so its good to have it this way -

the best way would be to just make a 200ah pack inside the chair and dont need an ADD ON after - since i got it paid from insurance - not complaining -

and i stopped using there charger long ago - i use the PL8 to charge the bounder direct to the pack at 20A charge rate - by passing the XLR

works better - faster - and balances better for sure - it sits at CV for a long time - with there charger - it may sit at CV for 10 min - 20 min at most - not enough - i am sure they are not all fully balanced

i dont think lead would last on that chair - but it may be Ok since you have slower speeds - wont kill them as much as mines would

maybe the chair guards help with dirt also - would be good - i am used to cleaning them now - it a habit - i get home - clean chair and chains - then charge - if i can get them - wonder how they stay on - i may - but i would still clean them

[fishinjunky]

Wow that's a hell of a trip lol I only have 15 miles on my chair but now that it's summer I can get out more

I'm going to stick with the batteries that are in it for now and take my time researching and educating myself on a lithium build in the future so I'm ready when the time comes.

Just out of curiosity I know it not a good idea but what would you guys charge to build someone a 200ah lithium battery?

[Burgerman]

I wouldnt do it. I know that YOU need to know how it all works or it wont end well.

The range thing is pretty easy to work out though.

LEAD APPROXIMATION. If you use a heavy chair and drive in a straight line on a good surface at full speed you cover around 15 miles. And that takes around 2 hours at 7 mph and the chair stops.

So the distance covered is at the battery 2 hour rate. Look on any chart at the voltage over time/load and you can see that you only get 40Ah out of a 75Ah lead battery at this point. This is shown to be correct as when you see how many Ah is returned to the lead battery via the PL8 charger on subsequent recharging it shows this clearly.

So lets say you can get this 40 Ah. Fitting a drop in lithium with only 75Ah Ah will then likely give you an extra chunk of range. Maybe an extra 60% or more. Except that it doesent because unless you want to kill that battery fast you can only safely use 80% of it and at a low C rate. This happens automatically with lead. You stop before its fully discharged due to peukert/time thing. But you would need to allow for that yourself with lithium as discharging 1% too far means it goes into the bin. Discharging heavily means a shorter lifespan. Lithium likes to be in the middle and discharged at low currents per Ah. So fitting a like for like Ah lithium will give you some extra range but not really a huge improvement and a higher risk from reliability issues.

But fitting 200Ah for e.g because you can! Now means you now have 5x that usable 40Ah. So even if you "only" drive 4x as far, you still have a safe 40Ah in reserve. Charces are you will never go that far. So battery monitoring becomes or watching the gauge becomes unessasary. And the battery over discharge levels is naturally protected because you wear out first.

[Burgerman]

Another member snaker has escaped VN and run out of road. He goes on even longer trips...

[fishinjunky]

I'm going take my time and prepare to build a 200ah down the road probably not any time soon. I'm going to start teaching my 9 year old niece to work on my chair. She already reads directions good and puts everything together for her mom

[expresso]

its not as bad as it seems - first thing you really have to be sure is the space in your battery box - measure it - if you have two grp 24 MK lead in there - then you should be able to fit 200ah in the same space -

but dont assume - measure it good a few times to be sure - write down the numbers - then you can search for cells that fit -

i have lithium in the bounder - 100ah - but there is room on the side which has the breaker box and some wiring - so there lithium 100ah seems to be smaller than a grp 24 battery would be -

i never measured my box - maybe next time i slide it open - i will try to measure - i am curious myself - once you get the few items needed -

PL8 charger - PSU - wiring - 20 ton crimper and soldering iron - heat shrink - ring ends - its easier than you think now - only 8 Cells to work with - one step at a time -

[fishinjunky]

its not as bad as it seems - first thing you really have to be sure is the space in your battery box - measure it - if you have two grp 24 MK lead in there - then you should be able to fit 200ah in the same space -

but dont assume - measure it good a few times to be sure - write down the numbers - then you can search for cells that fit -

i have lithium in the bounder - 100ah - but there is room on the side which has the breaker box and some wiring - so there lithium 100ah seems to be smaller than a grp 24 battery would be -

i never measured my box - maybe next time i slide it open - i will try to measure - i am curious myself - once you get the few items needed -

PL8 charger - PSU - wiring - 20 ton crimper and soldering iron - heat shrink - ring ends - its easier than you think now - only 8 Cells to work with - one step at a time -

After doing just a little research it doesn't seem to be difficult at all especially with the prismatic cells. If just seemed intimidating at first. Now I'm going to start putting back money for it and take my time planning everything out that way once I have enough money saved I'll be ready to build it.

Did you get the nayghyd cover for you power module on your bounder. I didn't get it and I'm trying to find something as a cover

[expresso]

yes i did get the cover for my PM - it sits over the battery box in the rear of the chair - i though it was a good idea to have it covered

water - dirt etc, - shouldnt be too hard to find something to cover it - i never looked how its held down - but it dosnt move - easy to wipe clean

take your time with the pack - i think its a good idea to get it together and have a nice winter project to do - this way you wont rush - have all the basic items you need -

if you use the chair alot or often long distance - with lead thats max 15 miles maybe - round trip - so 7 or 8 miles one way - they wont last long

just make sure 100% the space you have in the box to get the Cells that fit - once you do that - you can buy the cells when you find them or when your ready - and take your time -

[terry2]

yes i did get the cover for my PM - it sits over the battery box in the rear of the chair - i though it was a good idea to have it covered

water - dirt etc, - shouldnt be too hard to find something to cover it - i never looked how its held down - but it dosnt move - easy to wipe clean

take your time with the pack - i think its a good idea to get it together and have a nice winter project to do - this way you wont rush - have all the basic items you need -

if you use the chair alot or often long distance - with lead thats max 15 miles maybe - round trip - so 7 or 8 miles one way - they wont last long

just make sure 100% the space you have in the box to get the Cells that fit - once you do that - you can buy the cells when you find them or when your ready - and take your time -

Hi dude.

When you did that 68 mile trip.
Was it in your bounder with a addon pack?
And can you tell me what speed you did..

I'm just seeing how good\bad mine chair is with 170 ah cells at speeds of 6-8-11 mph

[Burgerman]

While he sleeps I can help!

Fastest bounder 12mph plus, 100Ah lithium on board, 80Ah addon. Thats 2.647Ah per mile. With a little range still remaining.

Remember terrain, weight, flat surfaces etc is everything. And straight lines are 7 to 10 times lower current draw than turning. So those figures are only really applicable for expresso in new york where there are few lateral slopes/cambers or hills.

If I used his chair, even on the same new york route, I would likely get half of that due to my weight, programming preferences, and the way I use it. Its hard to comparerange sensibly.

Also the speed you travel at, has little affect on range. Going half the speed, say 6mph in a 12mph chair with LITHIUM doesent gain you much in range at all. You draw half the Amps for twice as long. Same result.

The actual gearing (top speed of the chair) makes a large difference. A 6mph chair for example always draws much less current than a 12mph chair at every speed.

[terry2]

While he sleeps I can help!

Fastest bounder 12mph plus, 100Ah lithium on board, 80Ah addon. Thats 2.647Ah per mile. With a little range still remaining.

Remember terrain, weight, flat surfaces etc is everything. And straight lines are 7 to 10 times lower current draw than turning. So those figures are only really applicable for expresso in new york where there are few lateral slopes/cambers or hills.

If I used his chair, even on the same new york route, I would likely get half of that due to my weight, programming preferences, and the way I use it. Its hard to comparerange sensibly.

Also the speed you travel at, has little affect on range. Going half the speed, say 6mph in a 12mph chair with LITHIUM doesent gain you much in range at all. You draw half the Amps for twice as long. Same result.

The actual gearing (top speed of the chair) makes a large difference. A 6mph chair for example always draws much less current than a 12mph chair at every speed.

I'm just trying to get a rough idea.

When I do 12 mph up and down hills, round about ect.
I use more volts and amps then if I stay a 6 mph.

At the moment my cells are @3.2 volts and the cell voltage is at 25.95V. And I have used 132.6AH
I have done 60 miles so far. I do 3 mile to the shops and 3 mile back plus what I use going around the shops.

[Burgerman]

Everything you are doing is taking way more amps from the battery and discharging it faster than expresso would. Terrain, hills, acceleration, turning, all EAT battery power. Constant speed takes very little. Flat ground, straight lines, take very little. You cant compare that way. But expresso uses more due to tank steer.

And your battery will read 3.2 volts per cell from 98% full, to around 20% full. So voltage wont help you tell state of charge. On a flat surface in straight lines at constant speed uses the same amount of power over distance pretty much. Because going faster eats more battery faster but also covers more distance faster.

The only way to test to compare to expresso would be to follow him exactly. And then work out how many Ah per mile.

In your case its already going to be incomparable because - everything is different! In your usage scenario, in your chair you are using 2.2Ah per mile. Because its a scooter rather than wasting power every turn with tank steering, its better for range than most chairs inc expressos.

[steves1977uk]

Also the Meyra has one drive motor/is servo steered compared to a normal powerchair, so it will get more miles per Ah.

In comparison, my old modded Lithium chair gets about 34 miles from a 75Ah LiFePO4 pack due to it being a much lighter chair with no advanced features and that's with 8.5MPH motors. If I could fit 200Ah then my range would be 70+ miles.

Steve

[fishinjunky]

yes i did get the cover for my PM - it sits over the battery box in the rear of the chair - i though it was a good idea to have it covered

water - dirt etc, - shouldnt be too hard to find something to cover it - i never looked how its held down - but it dosnt move - easy to wipe clean

take your time with the pack - i think its a good idea to get it together and have a nice winter project to do - this way you wont rush - have all the basic items you need -

if you use the chair alot or often long distance - with lead thats max 15 miles maybe - round trip - so 7 or 8 miles one way - they wont last long

just make sure 100% the space you have in the box to get the Cells that fit - once you do that - you can buy the cells when you find them or when your ready - and take your time -

thats great idea for a winter project. Now i have 2 projects to look forward to this winter. Building a lithium battery and making a pressure test device for my roho cushions just like the one BM made and use his method for reading pressure. I really enjoy these types of projects as it gets cold and winter in WV United States and i hate the cold so it gets pretty boring stuck inside during winter.

[fishinjunky]

Also the Meyra has one drive motor/is servo steered compared to a normal powerchair, so it will get more miles per Ah.

In comparison, my old modded Lithium chair gets about 34 miles from a 75Ah LiFePO4 pack due to it being a much lighter chair with no advanced features and that's with 8.5MPH motors. If I could fit 200Ah then my range would be 70+ miles.

Steve

70+ miles my ass would be raw with pressure sores lol do you guys get pressure sores also. I battle them all the time but i do pressure reliefs every 25mins relligiously after having 2 stage 4 wounds with bone exposed. it took a couple years of laying in bed on my side to heal them

[Burgerman]

The point isnt that you can do 70+ miles though. Its just that you can.

What it does is free you. Free you from worrying about a busy day in a strange town. At an air show where the grass and endless turning to talk/watch eats up all your battery. Free you so that after this day out, you can still go out at 9 in the evening to eat/drink. With non of the endless watching of battery gauges and consequent range anxiety. Its like being used to a 2 Gallon fuel tank in your car and this being normal for everyone. And then fitting a 10 gallon one.

Zero chance of failure to make it home at 1am in the rain... So it changes what you think you can do subconsously. It frees you from turning stuff down because of your subconsous fears. Like to meet in a pub late in the evening. You say yes rather than no as you eye your battery gauge.

The other thing it does is allow you in winter when used little, to charge maybe every 3 or 5 days. So the rated cycle life lasts 3x or 5x longer as far as years go. It also means that you have a large energy store and so average daily depth of discharge is low and so again the cells dont deteriorate fast your pack lasts forever. And it means your average load per Ah is low (low C rate demand) on the battery, again meaning that the battery lasts even better.

And occasionally, on that odd day where you need a lot of Ah, say your van breaks down, or you need to climb a hilly area, or spand a day driving around on a grass airfeild, then you can! Worry free. Range anxiety killed off for good. Its not really about driving 70+ miles. I have never done that. Other than over 3 days use. Its about killing off range anxiety completely, and knowing that the battery is much more capable than you ever need. You wear out first.

Not only that, having capacity in reserve means that you are covered for future use. When your lead battery deteriorates, it's no longer a 70Ah battery but only a 60Ah one (a year?) you really do notice that! And so worry. If your lithium battery was down by some 50% (down by 100Ah!) its still going to give you better range than brand new lead battery by double. And 50% never happens! Maybe in 25 years. you would still have no problem at all...

So its good to have a large 70+ mile capability for a huge bunch of reasons.

[fishinjunky]

The point isnt that you can do 70+ miles though. Its just that you can.

What it does is free you. Free you from worrying about a busy day in a strange town. At an air show where the grass and endless turning to talk/watch eats up all your battery. Free you so that after this day out, you can still go out at 9 in the evening to eat/drink. With non of the endless watching of battery gauges and consequent range anxiety. Its like being used to a 2 Gallon fuel tank in your car and this being normal for everyone. And then fitting a 10 gallon one.

Zero chance of failure to make it home at 1am in the rain... So it changes what you think you can do subconsously. It frees you from turning stuff down because of your subconsous fears.

The other thing it does is allow you in winter to charge maybe every 3 days. So the rated cycle life lasts 3x longer as far as years go. It also means that you have a large energy store and so average daily depth of discharge is low and so again the cells dont deteriorate fast your pack lasts forever. And it means your average load per Ah is low (low C rate demand) on the battery, again meaning that the battery lasts even better.

And occasionally, on that odd day where you need a lot of Ah, say your van breaks down, or you need to climb a hilly area, or spand a day driving around on a grass airfeild, then you can! Worry free. Range anxiety killed for good. Its not really about driving 70+ miles. Its about killing off range anxiety completely, and knowing that the battery is more capable than you ever need. You wear out first.

Not only that, having capacity in reserve means that you are covered for future use. When your lead battery deteriorates its no longer a 70Ah battery but only a 60Ah one (a year?) you really do notice that! If your lithium battery was down by some 50% its still going to give you better range than brand new lead. And 50% never happens! Maybe in 25 years. you would still have no problem at all...


So its good to have a large 70+ mile capability for a huge bunch of reasons.

I'm definitely going to build one for my bounder may even do another one for my tdx sp to replace its group 22nf batteries