X8 configuration

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Re: X8 configuration

Postby steves1977uk » 15 Jun 2022, 20:47

This will do what you want Micka... https://www.amazon.co.uk/Voltmeter-Amme ... B07CTKMLVD A little bit more expensive though. :thumbup:

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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 16 Jun 2022, 14:49

muchas gracias amigo Steve
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby fishinjunky » 17 Jun 2022, 12:28

Micka7405 wrote:muchas gracias amigo Steve


just curious why 10 cells?
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 17 Jun 2022, 12:31

Speed increase at least if you also raise voltage limit in programming. Reliability decrease. Not wse. No voltage headroom as the system is designed for a nominal 24V as shown by the capacitor voltage choosen and used etc.

For long term reliability components need some headroom or overspecification. Esp capacitors. These elecrtolytics are like batteries with electrolyte like a cell that dry out with voltage level and temperature. I might go that way for maybe a robotwars bot, but not where reliability matters. Failure and getting stuck while away from home is just not an option. These things fail regularly enough to worry anyway so why speed things up? The reason they use 35v electrolytics is so they HAVE a little headroom in a 24v system with regeneration spikes for reliability reasons.

Thre are also voltage regulators on the board inside the joystick but more so the power module run hotter as well when dropping to the needed voltages such as 5V and 12V needed for other parts of the system. Will it work? Yes. Is it a good idea? No...

Also... Anything set to 24v gets full over voltage battery voltage. So actuators etc, brakes, all get too high voltage too. And this applies to unseen parts like gyros and seating actuators. Meanwhile anything set to 12V gets exactly 12V controlled by voltage regulators. So that battery voltage has no affect on output. The TUV market has regulations that this must be used. So that lights dont dim with battery voltage or as voltage drops on a hill for e.g. Or blows bulbs on regeneration as you decelerate.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 15:26

fishinjunky wrote:just curious why 10 cells?


why 10 cells ?
my x8 is from 2014, so 8 years
the 2 first year i was using the original lead batteries but it was not possible for me to go until the city because they are empty before
then for 3 years i was using 8 cells 310amps
it was ok to go to city and back to house but in 3 year i burned 4 times the wires from the electronic module to the motors and alos the electronic module was always too hot and stop work for sometime 15 minutes
then i meet my boyfriends who is engineer in solar power system and he installed me the 10 cells saying me if volts are more amps will be less and it will heat less wires and motor and electronic module

since 3 years or soon 3 year in less than 2 months i never had problems again wether electronic module or wires or motor or nothing

last winter 2 friends come to visiting me from Brasil and Canada and since a long long time they using 10 cells on them power wheelchair without any problem so i don't think it is the fate i have no problem with my 10 cell since nearly 3 years and as i say a few days before my x8 is using 4000km a year wich is 2000 hour since 3 year
i think if a problem is coming it was a long time before
and before my 10 cell i was always problem as i just say but now all is ok for me
all is working very well since 3 years i mean the x8 and also the lift chair the streering lock the electric footrest the tilt chair all.

i don't need high speed because where i using my x8 it is not possible to have speed more than 7 or 8 km/h
but i need a lot of torque and also a huge fuel gauge and also a reliable x8 and with my 10 cells i have all that since 3 years soon
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jun 2022, 15:33

then i meet my boyfriends who is engineer in solar power system and he installed me the 10 cells saying me if volts are more amps will be less and it will heat less wires and motor and electronic module


He is only partly correct. The AMPS in the BATTERY wires will be less.
The AMPS in the motor wires will either remain exactly the same in order to allow the unit to stay below the 120A limit. Or as speed increases increase in AVARAGE AMPS since you can now sent more acceleration power at a higher roadspeed when not limited by that 120A limit.

So what you have done cannot
- reduce the current foldback
- reduce power module heating
- do anything at all to stop wiring or motor heating (quite the opposite in fact)

So thats just physics. no amount of opinion or testimonials changes this.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 15:34

yesterday my dad look at the brushes of the 4 motors
they are half the new dimension
so they can do again 8 years but i want to buy new just in case they will have to been changed before.

the dimension when new is 6x8x23mm (today they are 13mm)
do you have know if it is possible to find ?

¡ gracias !
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jun 2022, 15:47

Thats not true.
When a motor brush is only 15 to 25% shorter than a brand new one thats *very* worn.
Because as it wears there is less and less of the body of the carbon brush still sitting in the brush holder, which is needed for both electrical resistance purposes and tohold the brush physically.
Also look for chips and burning (black carbon dust) too. Thats a sign of arcing which is usually caused as the brush wears and the spring tension becomes reduced. Which is another reason they should be replaced when 25% wear is seen compared to new.

Also you should be examining the surface it runs on, it should be a copper/brown colour (not black) smooth, and show no scoring or wear on the copper surface that you can feel with a finger nail.

When looking for replacement brushes, you should be VERY wary of cheap pattern replacements.
The actual material makup and hardness is important and varies between motors. The spring tension is also important. So be sure its correct. And the braided copper wire that connects to the brush will be taking 2/3rds of the very high currents. Cheap brushes use thinner braided copper here and it causes the brushes to overheat and die fast. Damaging the commutator.

So buy OEM ones from the supplier of the chair or motors. Raher than cheap generic ones online. If the commutators show signs of wear then budget to replace the motors and dont waste money on brushes.

Motors, and their commutators, magnetic feild strength, balance, gears, bearings and cush drives all wear out. So dont expect them to last forever. As this stuff gradually happens eficiency falls and so they run hotter and the demise speeds up...
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 15:51

Burgerman wrote:
then i meet my boyfriends who is engineer in solar power system and he installed me the 10 cells saying me if volts are more amps will be less and it will heat less wires and motor and electronic module


He is only partly correct. The AMPS in the BATTERY wires will be less.
The AMPS in the motor wires will either remain exactly the same in order to allow the unit to stay below the 120A limit. Or as speed increases increase in AVARAGE AMPS since you can now sent more acceleration power at a higher roadspeed when not limited by that 120A limit.

So what you have done cannot
- reduce the current foldback
- reduce power module heating
- do anything at all to stop wiring or motor heating (quite the opposite in fact)

So thats just physics. no amount of opinion or testimonials changes this.


i dont' know bm but what i 100/100 know it is since i have my 10 cells no again problem with wires or electronic modul heat
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jun 2022, 15:53

Maybe but your idea that it causes less heat on motor wires and power module breaks the laws of physics so that makes no sense. Quite the opposite. At full speed you are putting more watts through your motors than previously. So more heat. At high loads your power module limits motor amps to whatever its capable of (120A in this case) regardless of input voltage.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 15:59

Burgerman wrote:Thats not true.
When a motor brush is only 15 to 25% shorter than a brand new one thats *very* worn.
Because as it wears there is less and less of the body of the carbon brush still sitting in the brush holder, which is needed for both electrical resistance purposes and tohold the brush physically.
Also look for chips and burning (black carbon dust) too. Thats a sign of arcing which is usually caused as the brush wears and the spring tension becomes reduced. Which is another reason they should be replaced when 25% wear is seen compared to new.

Also you should be examining the surface it runs on, it should be a copper/brown colour (not black) smooth, and show no scoring or wear on the copper surface that you can feel with a finger nail.

When looking for replacement brushes, you should be VERY wary of cheap pattern replacements.
The actual material makup and hardness is important and varies between motors. The spring tension is also important. So be sure its correct. And the braided copper wire that connects to the brush will be taking 2/3rds of the very high currents. Cheap brushes use thinner braided copper here and it causes the brushes to overheat and die fast. Damaging the commutator.

So buy OEM ones from the supplier of the chair or motors. Raher than cheap generic ones online. If the commutators show signs of wear then budget to replace the motors and dont waste money on brushes.

Motors, and their commutators, magnetic feild strength, balance, gears, bearings and cush drives all wear out. So dont expect them to last forever. As this stuff gradually happens eficiency falls and so they run hotter and the demise speeds up...


muchas muchas gracias
the color is as you say copper/brown colour (not black)
the supplier who is Sunrise Medical in USA does not buy the brusshes they buy the motor and not 1 motor but the 2 for front or the 2 for rear
they are thief they do not care about people only about $
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:01

Burgerman wrote:Maybe but your idea that it causes less heat on motor wires and power module breaks the laws of physics so that makes no sense. Quite the opposite. At full speed you are putting more watts through your motors than previously. So more heat. At high loads your power module limits motor amps to whatever its capable of (120A in this case) regardless of input voltage.


i never go full speed not possible in the track i go. max is 7 or 8 km/h and only for 200 or 300 meters maximum
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jun 2022, 16:09

Then you should use 8S and your power module will likely last a lot longer. So far you have been lucky.

Sunrise sell brushes no problem. I have a set on the shelf for all of my own chairs.

For e.g. Item no.: 13
Article no.: MM-MOTBHX8V6
Description: X8 and V6 Motor brush A9

And see below for other parts for X8 motors...

Go to sunparts, and follow on screen instructions. Hell I could order those today.
Attachments
Image1.jpg
brushes.jpg
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jun 2022, 16:15

You will find your parts here. https://parts.sunrisemedical.eu/indexuk ... home/index
Log in as per screen.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:20

Burgerman wrote:You will find your parts here. https://parts.sunrisemedical.eu/indexuk ... home/index
Log in as per screen.


maybe Sunrise Eu but as i say not Sunrise US ...
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:23

Burgerman wrote:Then you should use 8S and your power module will likely last a lot longer. So far you have been lucky.


as i say you in my message before i used 8s for years and always big problems
since 3 years with 10s no problem even 1 very very very small

and for sure i am not lucky since i borned so no lucky with my x8
if it his working very well it is not luck, not with me ...
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jun 2022, 16:24

Wel, the US hasnt got a sensible "medical" system. So why are you trying to buy there? Are you american?

I buy from wherever is sane...
For E.G I buy cars in the US, and all kinds of stuff in china, japan, and I am no longer in the hated socialist EU. So I buy wherever I want. So can you.

If you want I can order some for you, and ship...
Or you could order from any place that deals with sunrise anywhere in the world. Just give them the part number and quantity. And pay.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:25

time for me to go to buy some foods and gl back to my house before the temperature will be to hot

gracias a todos
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:27

Burgerman wrote:Wel, the US hasnt got a sensible "medical" system. So why are you trying to buy there? Are you american?

I buy from wherever is sane...
For E.G I buy cars in the US, and all kinds of stuff in china, japan, and I am no longer in the hated socialist EU. So I buy wherever I want. So can you.

If you want I can order some for you, and ship...
Or you could order from any place that deals with sunrise anywhere in the world. Just give them the part number and quantity. And pay.


i am from Mexico bm
and from this ... country you can not buy where you want and what you whant

a few days before i said you you will be welcome in my home to visit a small part of my country and to have a right idea about it ...
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:29

Burgerman wrote:If you want I can order some for you, and ship...


thank you a lot
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:30

Burgerman wrote:Or you could order from any place that deals with sunrise anywhere in the world. Just give them the part number and quantity. And pay.


no bm not from here ...
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:32

Burgerman wrote:Wel, the US hasnt got a sensible "medical" system. So why are you trying to buy there?


and Mexico has got nothing medical system
NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING

it is like that. a world inside the world
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:33

asta luego amigos
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 19 Jun 2022, 16:34

Orderability Item no. Article no. Description
1 16 MM-MOTARMX8 Motor armature X8
1 13 MM-MOTBHX8V6 X8 and V6 Motor brush A9
1 14 MM-MOTBRAX8L X8 Motor Brake Left hand side A9Y67
1 15 MM-MOTBRAX8R X8 Motor Brake Right hand side A9Y67
1 7 MM-MOTGASX8V6 Motor gasket V6 / X8
1 7-12 MM-MOTGBKITX8 Motor gearbox service spare pa
1 8 MM-MOTSL Motor seal to suit X8, V6 and X5 motors
1 10 MM-MOTSX8 X8 Motor Shaft A9Y230A00971
1 9 MM-MOTWWL large motor wave washer
1 12 MM-MOTWWS small motor wave washer
1 6 MM-MOTX8FL Motor X8 front left (4474) AY001C04474C-200917 REV C
1 5 MM-MOTX8FR Motor X8 front right (4473) AY001C04473C-200917 REV C
1 4 MM-MOTX8RL Motor X8 rear left (R-Net 4574) ay001c04574c-200917 rev c
1 2 MM-MOTX8RLD Motor X8 rear left rev C AY001C04574C-200917 dynamic connectors
1 3 MM-MOTX8RR Motor X8 rear right (R-Net 4573) ay001c04573c-200917 rev c
1 1 MM-MOTX8RRD Motor X8 rear right rev C AY001C04573C-200917 dynamic connectors
1 7 MOTGASX8V6 Motor X8 front left (4474) ay001c04474c-200917 rev c
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:46

bm i have try to go to the https://parts.sunrisemedical.eu/indexuk ... aW5kZXg%3D
but it is only for dealers not for owner of the x8

or maybe it is because i try to connect from Mexico

you are dealers bm ?

i am vey late to go back home
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:48

Burgerman wrote:Orderability Item no. Article no. Description
1 16 MM-MOTARMX8 Motor armature X8
1 13 MM-MOTBHX8V6 X8 and V6 Motor brush A9
1 14 MM-MOTBRAX8L X8 Motor Brake Left hand side A9Y67
1 15 MM-MOTBRAX8R X8 Motor Brake Right hand side A9Y67
1 7 MM-MOTGASX8V6 Motor gasket V6 / X8
1 7-12 MM-MOTGBKITX8 Motor gearbox service spare pa
1 8 MM-MOTSL Motor seal to suit X8, V6 and X5 motors
1 10 MM-MOTSX8 X8 Motor Shaft A9Y230A00971
1 9 MM-MOTWWL large motor wave washer
1 12 MM-MOTWWS small motor wave washer
1 6 MM-MOTX8FL Motor X8 front left (4474) AY001C04474C-200917 REV C
1 5 MM-MOTX8FR Motor X8 front right (4473) AY001C04473C-200917 REV C
1 4 MM-MOTX8RL Motor X8 rear left (R-Net 4574) ay001c04574c-200917 rev c
1 2 MM-MOTX8RLD Motor X8 rear left rev C AY001C04574C-200917 dynamic connectors
1 3 MM-MOTX8RR Motor X8 rear right (R-Net 4573) ay001c04573c-200917 rev c
1 1 MM-MOTX8RRD Motor X8 rear right rev C AY001C04573C-200917 dynamic connectors
1 7 MOTGASX8V6 Motor X8 front left (4474) ay001c04474c-200917 rev c



thank you a lot amigo

is possible to send screen capture of the items referenc above because it will be more easy for me and dad to understand what are they
gracias
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:51

do you have the item of the brush holder
dad say my 1 from left front is a little damage with a stone

thank you bm
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Micka7405 » 19 Jun 2022, 16:56

Burgerman wrote:You will find your parts here. https://parts.sunrisemedical.eu/indexuk ... home/index
Log in as per screen.



bm what is Log in as per screen
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Dan » 19 Jun 2022, 18:19

Micka7405 wrote:what is Log in as per screen

by logging in as a guest.

username: guest
password: Guest$01
I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 20 Jun 2022, 01:13

Anyone can log in as a guest, and as above the details needed are on the screen in front of you.
Then you can see al the part numbers and order numbers.


The only difference between you logging in as guest and a dealer logging in is that you cannot see pricing, discount, or actualy order.
You then take the numbers, to any high street dealer, or online dealer, and order the parts.

If you cannot do that from mexico, I can do it for you and ship via any shipping company that allow this.
Subject to payment in advance by paypal to me if you are unable to do this (why?) yourself.
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