X8 configuration

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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 27 Jun 2021, 19:31

It might be the climb in the mud. These mobility controllers are not designed for 4x4 or mud or climbing a heavy vehicle. They already overheat and roll back power in a normal chair with 2 motors, half the weigt and casters... Regularly. Expecting it to drag all that 4x4 stuff around off road is asking too much. Add a cooling fan to the power module at very least.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 27 Jun 2021, 20:02

Ok, good idea the fan. Thanks.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby ex-Gooserider » 29 Jun 2021, 03:32

In addition to the fan, look at how the module is mounted - ideally it should be attached to a large hunk of metal (i.e. battery box, frame, etc.) that can act as a heat sink... If you have room, it might be worth adding better heat sinking, ideally something w/ lots of surface area (fins) to allow the fan to carry off more heat...

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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 29 Jun 2021, 04:19

Thanks for helping.
If I add a cooler fan, activated with a NO temperature switch, which temperature will I need to activate my fan ?
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 29 Jun 2021, 10:39

The cooling and current reduction begins at 50C and thats an internal temperature. I would have the fans start at say just above ambient. Or if its a computer fan, and quiet, then leave it running all the time when switched in. Use a 24V fan or two 12v in series. Dont take power from 1 battery.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 04 Jul 2021, 07:47

Hi.

I changed the position of my PM. Not the place, the position.
I mean, MM installed it up side down. The not painted part up.
In this ''strange'' position, 1: even if there is a seal, water could enter the PM with time. 2: the radiator for the 16 power transistors is side down (looking to the floor) and for sure cooling is not optimal.
Yesterday I tested that (but as long as my motor compensation is set to 45 I don't try to climb huge hill) and my PM was really colder than before in the same kind of work.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 04 Jul 2021, 07:48

I'll receive my dongle monday or tuesday.
Then I'll give you news about your settings file you made for me BurgerMan.

I've a question, maybe stupid one !
what is the maximum voltage I can apply to the R-Net system ?
8 LiFePo4 cells is the nominal configuration; are 10 cells, or 12 possible ?

Have a good Sunday.
Fred005
 

Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 04 Jul 2021, 10:55

8S. 10 no. 12 no.

You can nearly get awy with 9 but regeneration spikes will cause errors.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 04 Jul 2021, 11:45

Ok. Thanks.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 04 Jul 2021, 12:11

And the best way to charge is via a PL8 and that 8 means up to 8S.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 04 Jul 2021, 20:48

What is the best, or the worst, for not over heating my power modul when I'm climbing a huge hill ? Climbing in ''low gear'' I mean as slow as possible, or fast ?
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 04 Jul 2021, 22:37

If the MECHANICAL gearing is tall enough to do 30mph, then you will have no choice but to go slow! You may need to get out and push. And it will eat up a lot of motor amps going nowhere fast as the controller warms up and rolls back the amps even further. It might do that on the flat too. And it may burn your motors.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 04 Jul 2021, 22:50

The mechanical gearing of the X8 is not tall enough to do 30mph.
I don't understand your answer. Maybe my question was not explicit enough.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 04 Jul 2021, 22:55

My bad. I was thinking of a post about a scooter elsewhere were he wants 30mph gearing...

Hills fast or slow?

Depends on hill. If its a short thing like a ramp, fast. Momentum will do all the work.
If its a long drag then slowly. As you will be increasing the amount of current at higher speeds. And that means more heat.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 05 Jul 2021, 06:14

Ok, no problem BurgerMan.
So your answer is what I was thinking.

Do you think it is possible to use 2 power module connected in parallel, with one joystick.
Maybe like that overheating will not arrived.

Good day every one.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 05 Jul 2021, 07:16

You cannot connect them together on the output. They each have a pulsewidth and they each measure current and use that to determine the actual output. All sorts of nasty stuff may happen. They will fight each other. If they ere programmed the same, and the motors were 4 pole with four brushes that were not connected to each other internally in the motor you could potentially connect each module to a set of poles... Never tried that. You still have the problem of feeding two inputs from one joystick.

If I were you I would just add a fan for now!
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 05 Jul 2021, 07:41

Ok, I understand. It was only a question !

My dongle is suppised to arrive tomorrow, so then I'l' test your settings file and my new PM place. Then I'll see for the fan.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 05 Jul 2021, 07:57

My settings will not work if you are holding only the joystick while every bump moves you aroud. With no reference point to connect your hand to the joystick. You will lurch all over the place.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 05 Jul 2021, 09:00

I'm not holding only the joystick it's installed on a ... stick.
And trust me, it's not a problem and very accurate.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 05 Jul 2021, 09:30

Does your hand hold or cradle the pod?? And finger and thumb control the joystick?
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 05 Jul 2021, 10:22

Burgerman wrote:Does your hand hold or cradle the pod?? And finger and thumb control the joystick?


Yes, exactly.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 05 Jul 2021, 11:55

Then my settings, with carefully adjusted turn speed should be OK and more precise.

I ask because MOST users put their arm on the chairs arm and only grab the joystick. So every tiny movement of the chair waggles the joystick around. When programmed properly to respond without the timed turn accelerations that make it so hard to make it go where you want, they just cannot control it.

Its akin to writing a letter when you are only holding the pen. And not placing your hand on the page as a reference point too. You cannot write accurately like that.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 09 Jul 2021, 08:09

Hi.

I received my dongle and tested BurgerMan's settings file yesterday.
It was just ... Wow ! An other X8.

Today I'll test some minor settings I changed, and because of I'll be fare from home with no computer I downloaded my settings file in my second Power Modul. So I'll only need a few minuts to change from PM #1 to PM #2.

I've one question:
My PW#1 is 2.05 while PM#2 is 1.103.
Is it possible to update PM#2 and if yes ... How ?

Have a good day.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 09 Jul 2021, 10:11

Theres no way for us to get the updated firmwares.



The important question is: dDoes it now steer properly without all that turn delay nonsense that EVERY single powerchair has built in removed?

Because those that have never tried this such as rollpositive, will never understand what the hell we are talking about until they do!

So try to explain for him and all those like him what difference it makes.



You should now only change the turn speed. And the minimum turn speed. NOT the turn acceleration or turn deceleration. Or the minimum turn acc/dec ones.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 09 Jul 2021, 18:44

And is this PM update important ?

I can't say steering is perfect, but maybe with this system it'll never be perfect.
But it's much much more better !

I increased turn speed. Max & Min.
I tested today, during a hike in my mountains, climbing at 2170m ASL (7120 feet), 25km, 8h30 moving time, my settings: Max turn speed 85%, and the same for Min turn speed.
When it's climbing a lot, with 180 degres corner, it's better. 500% better than the original settings.
But, sometime, when my speed is very low, I can say 2km/h max, and when it's a huge climb, I can say 45° at least, and if I need to lock my steering because on the track there are many big stones, or big roots and I don't want steering turning righ/left without my ''permission'', by itself when a front wheel is arriving on these stones/roots, but I also need to zigzag a bit, X8 stop climbing.
I think it's because with the steering lock ON, it needs more power to turn. And because it's not like on a car, which will give you all it's power if you need, whatever your speed because the car has a gear box (auto or manual but it has), on the X8, when you need to go on a low speed, the only solution the power modul has is to giving motors less power.
So, in ''less power'' condition, if the locked steering is ''eating'' many power to steer, the X8 stop climbing.
Solution is climbing at a higher speed, but often it's not possible or dangerous.

Maybe in a short future I'll fit a kind of steering wheel or handlebar to manage steering whitout the need of power.
I know it'll be difficult to steer maybe, because the 2 front wheels speed will not change, I try to say 1 wheel will not turn slowly, like on a car for exemple, but in these case where I have problemes, corners need to steer a very little.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby steves1977uk » 09 Jul 2021, 19:00

Never seen a R-net joystick pod with built in LED number displays before. What do they relate to?

Steve
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby rover220 » 09 Jul 2021, 19:37

steves1977uk wrote:Never seen a R-net joystick pod with built in LED number displays before. What do they relate to?

Steve


Doesnt look factory to me.
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 09 Jul 2021, 20:26

rover220 wrote:
steves1977uk wrote:Never seen a R-net joystick pod with built in LED number displays before. What do they relate to?

Steve


Doesnt look factory to me.


Not factory, indeed !!!!!!
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Re: X8 configuration

Postby Fred005 » 09 Jul 2021, 20:29

steves1977uk wrote:Never seen a R-net joystick pod with built in LED number displays before. What do they relate to?

Steve


It's the voltage of left (red) en right (green) batteries.
Fred005
 

Re: X8 configuration

Postby Burgerman » 09 Jul 2021, 23:41

After reading your description, I would test increasing the motor load compensation. IN VERY SMALL STEPS. Because what you decribe sounds like what you would get when set too low.

Beware. Setting too high can result in a runaway that you cannot stop. Its a positive feedback loop. So in small steps!
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