Possibility of charging 73.5 Ah Gel batteries......

[Spectra_Pilot]

Hi, I have an Aviva on order and as it requires specialist seating, it could be months before hand over (one appointment per month)
My question is, as I have chosen to upgrade the batteries to  73.5 Ah Gel, can these be charged out of the powerchair? I'd like to bring the batteries home to regularly charge while needed to go back into the Aviva. (4 years ago I had the same issue, my Spectra XTR 2 was sat in the clinic stores for 4 months until the seating system was completed , but due to the fact the batteries hadn't been charged regularly, on the Spectra hand over day, they lasted for about 2 miles until totally dead, a 24 hour charge did nothing so a new pair of batteries had to be fitted to a 'single day in use' powerchair)

[rover220]

Hi, I have an Aviva on order and as it requires specialist seating, it could be months before hand over (one appointment per month)
My question is, as I have chosen to upgrade the batteries to  73.5 Ah Gel, can these be charged out of the powerchair? I'd like to bring the batteries home to regularly charge while needed to go back into the Aviva. (4 years ago I had the same issue, my Spectra XTR 2 was sat in the clinic stores for 4 months until the seating system was completed , but due to the fact the batteries hadn't been charged regularly, on the Spectra hand over day, they lasted for about 2 miles until totally dead, a 24 hour charge did nothing so a new pair of batteries had to be fitted to a 'single day in use' powerchair)

Did you have a good test drive of the aviva?

[Burgerman]

You can charge them OUT of the chair. In parallel at 12V with any suitable charger. Or in series with the powerchairs charger.

But remember that while you should charge them every 7 to 14 days MAX when fitted in the powerchair thats not required if they are disconnected from or removed from the chair though.

If disconnected. Every 1 to 2 months they can be charged overnight. The chair is the real problem. It takes some power 24/7 even when turned off. The disconnected battery themselves can be topped up every couple of months. They could if FULL be stored for maybe 3 to 6 months without charging at a push. IF DISCONNECTED.

[Spectra_Pilot]

[/quote]id you have a good test drive of the aviva?[/quote]

No, it was a straight choice between the Aviva or the Bora (Spectra XTR3) - that was the ONLY 2 options from the OT's

I'm on my 3rd Spectra so decided to opt for the Aviva as I've opted for 73 gel batteries and a couple of extras (at cost to me)

[Burgerman]

You allowed an OT to tell you what chair?

[Spectra_Pilot]

You can charge them OUT of the chair. In parallel at 12V with any suitable charger. Or in series with the powerchairs charger.

But remember that while you should charge them every 7 to 14 days MAX when fitted in the powerchair thats not required if they are disconnected from or removed from the chair though.

If disconnected. Every 1 to 2 months they can be charged overnight. The chair is the real problem. It takes some power 24/7 even when turned off. The disconnected battery themselves can be topped up every couple of months. They could if FULL be stored for maybe 3 to 6 months without charging at a push. IF DISCONNECTED.

Thanks for your expertise Burgerman, I'm trying to avoid the same situation 4 years ago as my current Spectra was sat in storage in between clinic appointments without charging so naturally I'm concerned the situation will happen again (NRS won't charge whilst in storage as its a fire risk apparently

[biscuit]

4 years ago I had the same issue, my Spectra XTR 2 was sat in the clinic stores for 4 months until the seating system was completed

OMG.
They kill your batteries before they even deliver the machine???
Can they not fit the batteries on the day they are handing you the machine?
They are exceptionally useless.

[biscuit]

NRS won't charge whilst in storage as its a fire risk apparently

But not for actual wheelchair users
!!!

[Burgerman]

How in hell is charging the battery any greater fire risk than doing so next to your own bed?

That is not the real reason. The real reason is lazyness. And "fire" an excuse they give for this incompetance. I normally call such people idiots, but keep being told off. But they ARE idiots. Or simply ignorant and incompetant.

A chair very slowly discharges its battery when OFF. Only by a few mA. I measured 7 on one chair. 12 on another. But 24/7 it adds up. A battery already has a very very slow iternal SELF discharge rate. Much slower than the chair takes from it.
So it discharges MUCH slower if disconnected from the chair.

Any time a lead battery is sat, at less than 100% CHARGED it begins to develop some level of permanant sulfation. So in an ideal world you would always keep it 100% CHARGED.

Every time a battery is discharged, it coats the cells plates with lead sulfate. The deeper it is discharged the worse this is. As long as you imediately recharge FULLY for 16 hours or longer, or until current falls to almost nothing, this is 99.999% returned to the electrolyte from where it came.

The danger... If it's just 2 or 3 percent discharged for a long period, (97% charged) then this small amount of sulfate coats the plates and turns to larger crystals over time and this can then NEVER be reversed. Do it once and lose 2 to 3% of its capacity. Do it daily or never properly charge, or leave it weeks and the damage builds fast. So always store batteries as fully charged as possible.

That means a continual 13.4V float indefinitely.
Or topped up frequently with a full 12 to 16 hour charge.
They should always be stored for long periods disconnected from the chair, unless held at 2x that 13.4V (26.8V) for best long term results.

At very LEAST top up weekly or bi weekly as a last resort with your chairs charger. Thats not as good but almost as good.
You already know the result of ignoring all this. Since your last batts were destroyed through ignorance and lazyness by the "experts" (idiots).

[steves1977uk]

NRS Service guys don't have a clue, and I speak from experience having to fix the hoist myself with help from Melissa (my PA).

Honestly, it's easier to fix things yourself than relying on incompetent idiots. The job gets done properly then and much quicker.

Steve

[Burgerman]

I agree. But sadly most people do not want to know, to learn, to make any effort to help themselves. They find it all overwhelming and so depend on the "experts". The trouble is that most are not. Even if you find one with a brain like rover, they can be limited in time, and by laws and rules on top of al the rest!

So as usual, knowledge is power. And if you have that nothing can stop you.

[Jay_x]

Hi, I have an Aviva on order and as it requires specialist seating, it could be months before hand over (one appointment per month)
My question is, as I have chosen to upgrade the batteries to  73.5 Ah Gel, can these be charged out of the powerchair? I'd like to bring the batteries home to regularly charge while needed to go back into the Aviva. (4 years ago I had the same issue, my Spectra XTR 2 was sat in the clinic stores for 4 months until the seating system was completed , but due to the fact the batteries hadn't been charged regularly, on the Spectra hand over day, they lasted for about 2 miles until totally dead, a 24 hour charge did nothing so a new pair of batteries had to be fitted to a 'single day in use' powerchair)

Did you get your Aviva?

How do you like it so far?

[Spectra_Pilot]

Hi, I r)

Did you get your Aviva?

How do you like it so far?

Hi Jay, the Aviva RX20 was finally delivered and so far it fab. I've spent the day exploring the Linx Rem400 and plan to have a good first drive when the weather permits!

I'll keep you posted

[slomobile]

due to the fact the batteries hadn't been charged regularly, on the Spectra hand over day, they lasted for about 2 miles until totally dead, a 24 hour charge did nothing so a new pair of batteries had to be fitted to a 'single day in use' powerchair)

When my Quantum Q6 batteries were just a few days old we left the chair at home on charge for 2 days while we did a roadtrip. Turns out the charger was plugged into the chair, so the charging animation on the joystick kept going like it was charging, but someone had kicked the AC cord out of the charger, so it drained the batteries to 16 volts by the time we got back. They charged after that but could only run about 2 hours before the chair wouldn't move.

Not sure if a similar thing happened to your chair while in storage. Brand new batteries are factory prepped for maximum shelf life. They are in the best state they can ever be for long term storage prior to their first end user charge. You can ask the manufacturer about your specific units to find out if they can handle 4 months off charge. Some can. If I were in your situation, out of contact with the new chair, I would not install or charge the batteries at all until the day before delivery to avoid any such mishaps.

[Burgerman]

Not sure if a similar thing happened to your chair while in storage. Brand new batteries are factory prepped for maximum shelf life.

The only prep they have is a charge. And batteries self discharge over time. Its true that quality sealed batteries will stay charged at up to 70% if fully charged and NOT CONNECTED TO A CHAIR for up to a year.

But while thay will still charge fully, and work fine they will also have suffered some permanant capacity loss because of non reversable sulfation during this time. Any lead battery at less than 100% charge suffers degradation over time through self discharge.

A typical set of batts fitted in a chair, even if turned off, suffers a few Ah discharge a week. And so sulfates faster, and will discharge faster over time too.

They are in the best state they can ever be for long term storage prior to their first end user charge. You can ask the manufacturer about your specific units to find out if they can handle 4 months off charge. Some can. If I were in your situation, out of contact with the new chair, I would not install or charge the batteries at all until the day before delivery to avoid any such mishaps.

All batteries when DISCONNECTED completely can "handle" 4 months. Or more. And will suffer some permanant capacity loss. If disconnected from the chair 4 monhs would likely be only a slight deterioration.