Lithium Chargers

[expresso]

has anyone found a new replacement charger for lithium yet - ?

we should have a section just for this so who ever finds one - can post the link here and share there input

i am curious since i may be giving away one of my small ADD On pack - my very first one its 36ah 12Ah cells - but if i did - how would someone charge it now - if connected to lead with the add on ?

[fishinjunky]

I'm also looking for a charger. I'm getting ready to build a pack for the bounder but no charger that I'm comfortable with

[expresso]

Time will tell -

cant give lithium away now with no charger to use

i mean a new user - i may give my ADD ON away to try and see etc, but no charger to explain to them - if it cant be charged - wont be used

[terry2]

Time will tell -

cant give lithium away now with no charger to use

i mean a new user - i may give my ADD ON away to try and see etc, but no charger to explain to them - if it cant be charged - wont be used

There is a few out there.
But I have no idea if they will last or are any good.

If my last pl8 goes. I will go with a Fully programable BMS.

[expresso]

Do u have any links to those BMS. U would get ? That may be only option for someone new at this for now

[terry2]

Do u have any links to those BMS. U would get ? That may be only option for someone new at this for now

I'm looking at the Overkill BMS that is programmed by Americans.
You can get a simalier BMS, but with no free program.

[expresso]

post a link if you can to the BMS you are referring to

good to know in case - not for me but for others who may consider

thanks

[Burgerman]

I'm looking at the Overkill BMS

[steves1977uk]

expresso, I'd avoid an Overkill BMS since they have a tiny balancing current which would take forever on a large pack, but would be ok for an add-on up to 50Ah.

Steve

[expresso]

i am not looking for me - i have PL8

i am thinking of others with none - if i want to gift my ADD ON - one of them - etc, - what would i suggest them use - BMS would be the only logical choice till a solid new charger comes along

[biscuit]

I'm looking at the Overkill BMS

Burgerman have you got a better suggestion then or are you and terry2 just having a cross-thread go at each other? For those underprivileged people who have no PL8.
≤50Ah is a possible add-on size, as we know.

[steves1977uk]

i am not looking for me - i have PL8

i am thinking of others with none - if i want to gift my ADD ON - one of them - etc, - what would i suggest them use - BMS would be the only logical choice till a solid new charger comes along

That's why I said the Overkill BMS would be ok on a ≤50Ah pack. Any bigger and you'd be waiting days for the cells to balance.

Steve

[expresso]

do you have a link to this Overkill BMS ?

[steves1977uk]

Here expresso... https://overkillsolar.com/product/bms-100a-8s-lifepo4/

Steve

[Burgerman]

I would say that it all but useless in cyclic use beyond 20 to 30Ah. Its maybe OK for use with a continual carefully configured soar setup where it spends days being sa at its top balance voltage. But hopeless in cyclic use. Of if a pack is less than super high quality matched cells. And carefully balanced before assembly.

And all its other features are not wanted. As a batery cell monitor to let you know when the lowest cell reaches say 2.9V its OK. But theres lots of those for 2 dollars on eBay.

[Burgerman]

Burgerman have you got a better suggestion then or are you and terry2 just having a cross-thread go at each other? For those underprivileged people who have no PL8.
≤50Ah is a possible add-on size, as we know.

No. I hate the things as they are the wrong thing, in the wrong place as far as charging is concerned and all their other functions are definitely not wanted or needed in a powerchair as all our control systems already do a better job in a proportional fashion than the BMS on off protection.

If you find one with say 1A or better balance current it will help. But it still cant control the charger. So all sorts of things go wrong!

[expresso]

what do you recommend ?

what can i tell a user now that may want to use one of my ADD ONs - or build a full pack etc, -

i dont see any other options at the moment for them - others etc


is there a better BMS - meaning a little more leaning to what we need - i know its not going to perfect -

[Burgerman]

You stress so much over things.

Theres loads of hobby chargers. And now the iChargers have done a firmware update they at least allow you to set the percentage of the charge current to terminate at a low enough value. Relability may be questionable though.

Check out the hyperions. And that one will is using. And many others.

And for a small addon look for a BMS that can do say 1A balance.

[expresso]

its not for me or about me - its for others

to make it easier for someone to get started - - that overkill BMS dosnt look bad - BT - software to control it etc,

i wouldnt know how to explain any other new chargers unless i use it and learn it first - i have no need for any now - i have the PL8 hopefully for a long time

i am not stressing - just like to know of a few other options for others - BMS is simple enough for new users to use - once configured - any dumb charger can work -

once you start telling new users - ADD ON - New charger - New PSU - learning etc, this and that - they may get turned off - may not have money to buy all the stuff needed - and may not even care for the ADD ON enough to do it -

i still have the BMS Shirley got me years ago when i first started - if i didnt do that first - i may not have started a full pack etc, - i got a taste of it this way - and liked it enough to ditch it and go full pack with PL 8

not everyone wants to do that or do anything other than plug it in and leave it - at least to get a taste

[Burgerman]

Correct. Everyone wants the results and benefits whie being ignorant and not wanting to learn anything. Thats not how the world works. You are on the cutting edge. It works for you because you know whats going on. Sometimes the ignorant cannot have the same results. or benefits. Thats just life. And it applies to everything.

Remember that the BMS is the most likely thing to cause initial build/balance issues, and problems in service. And during charge. Even if the thinfgs safety "features" dont stop play. And those are the very users that woudnt recognise whats happening or why or how to fix it. In many ways a BMS complicates everything.

[expresso]

yes it may - but for those who cant do it - for one reason or another

BMS is fine - you learn to live with it and how it works - i did it for a short time - you stop when you loose the first green light - which can be 15 miles out - so 15 miles back - 30 miles total - much better than lead alone i would say

most dont do that much anyway

pro and cons will be discussed - and they can try it - may not happen - as i cant give things away - even Add ons haha - i will ask a friend to share the news - 36ah 12ah cells ADD ON - looking to have someone get a taste of lithium - dont have room to keep everything - i just repainted my whole apt.

what a mess - not finished yet - so much shit i have to get rid of in the closets over the years - and all my wheelchair stuff and my garages i call them where i have all my tools wires etc, for building - of course keeping those - but have to clean up

i have brand new 300-8 grey tires tubes etc, i want to give away

[Burgerman]

Its not that simple. I gave up trying to explain why to you because you either do not read well or dont get it. You might go 1 mile with a "full battery" and stop. And you wont see it coming and wont know why.

For E.G
THIS BMS on aliexpress for e.g if you look at only the 8S 2A 200A BT version.
It does 200A.
It has 2A balance capability. It has all the usual BT and fancy graphics. It has everything you want right?
On the face of it its literally got 20x the balance current of that useless BMS linked to elsewhere on reddit/youtube...

Take a look. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003 ... 4304%22%7D

But that BMS will quite likely end up stopping very unexpectedly! See if you can tell why... This is why knowledge MATTERS.

[expresso]

its the same story all the time - i understand it - why it may be one way one day or another the next etc,

thats up to the others to learn it - i done it - BMS for short time - not long enough to know really but thats how i watched the cells - if when i lost one green light - thats it - head back - could be 15 miles one day or 18 the next or 12 the next

[expresso]

Its not that simple. I gave up trying to explain why to you because you either do not read well or dont get it. You might go 1 mile with a "full battery" and stop. And you wont see it coming and wont know why.

For E.G
THIS BMS on aliexpress for e.g if you look at only the 8S 2A 200A BT version.
It does 200A.
It has 2A balance capability. It has all the usual BT and fancy graphics. It has everything you want right?
On the face of it its literally got 20x the balance current of that useless BMS linked to elsewhere on reddit/youtube...

Take a look. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003 ... 4304%22%7D

But that BMS will quite likely end up stopping very unexpectedly! See if you can tell why... This is why knowledge MATTERS.

i cant tell - too much going on that page - tell me why ? and do others do the same or better or worse - so far the bounder BMS is hanging in there but i do have my ADD on with it - so it wont stop either way

[Burgerman]

But it might STOP after 1 mile on tuesday. No warning. Thats what you are not understanding. STRANDED.

[Burgerman]

i cant tell - too much going on that page - tell me why ? and do others do the same or better or worse - so far the bounder BMS is hanging in there but i do have my ADD on with it - so it wont stop either way

Because it balances al the time whenever theres a 2mV difference. And it does that all of the time regardless of voltage. It PRESUMES a cell with 3 or 4mV higher or lower has a different state of charge. Theres usually up to 10mV or sometimes more spread across a pack that IS balanced perfectly, once below 3.45V. So it would spend maybe 16 hours of the day UNBALANCING the pack at 2Amps. Thats a probable 32Ah IMBALANCE!

That works great on other chemistries. Not on LiFePO4.

[Burgerman]

i cant tell - too much going on that page - tell me why ? and do others do the same or better or worse - so far the bounder BMS is hanging in there but i do have my ADD on with it - so it wont stop either way

Because it balances al the time whenever theres a 2mV difference. And it does that all of the time regardless of voltage. It PRESUMES a cell with 3 or 4mV higher or lower has a different state of charge. Theres usually up to 10mV or sometimes more spread across a pack that IS balanced perfectly, once below 3.45V. So it would spend maybe 16 hours of the day UNBALANCING the pack at 2Amps. Thats a probable 32Ah IMBALANCE!

That works great on other chemistries. Not on LiFePO4.

[expresso]

Ok - not good BMS then

Which are the better of the bunch ?

we should make a list - i know you dont like them but this is where we are at now - unless another charger cant do what the PL 8 -

[shirley_hkg]

i still have the BMS Shirley got me years ago when i first started - if i didnt do that first - i may not have started a full pack etc, - i got a taste of it this way -

You said it, FINALLY.

The good thing about an ADD-ON is , that you won't get STRANDED , because you still have lead bricks.

You did it better than me, that you enhanced it by putting the right number of diodes to spread load evenly between the two batteries.

I'm NOT selling anything , but these BMS are still running for a decade now , so are the add-ons here , with their stock dump chargers .

Furthermore, why look at eternity. Battery is consumables. Nothing is immortal , so as your chair .

Tell me how many times you had get rid of you lithium pack , long before they've shown sign of wears .

[terry2]

expresso, I'd avoid an Overkill BMS since they have a tiny balancing current which would take forever on a large pack, but would be ok for an add-on up to 50Ah.

Steve

A 300ah 12v pack took 6 hours to balance.

There is no one on here that users all there pack in one day.
If I use my 170ah pack as normal. It would last months.