P&G nigthmare spared parts policy on CJSM ?

[Mistral33]

Hi,

Sorry if I missed some translation errors (thanks a lot google anyway) Also I tried to find a topic related but didn't get many nice results in 10 minutes.

After a long administrative pregnancy, I got a Permobil F5 with a top tech CJSM2 16 months ago, as I do posses a duchenne muscular dystrophy condition.
After 9 fuc*ing months, the CJSM2 left bottom MODE button started to shear out on the side as I use it 100 times a day. It also ghost self activated itself !!!
2 months later the contour of the plastic membrane and the CJSM2 have been pronounced fully separated by the judge

Permobil warranty, so we had to RTM the CJSM directly to P&G; which completely replaced the controller.
My dealer couldn't order only a new membrane : P&G refuses to sell the spare part in question.
They only accepts to completely replace the big dark box !
Outside warranty clients are always being charged a brand new CJSM2 !!


The membrane breaking point has been reached so quickly... The chair must last more than 5 years.
I am going straight into a wall !! Will I have to change 4 times a 2000 USD controller ?

The local permobil salesperson explained it seems to be a decision of the board of directors at Penny and Gille to make more figures. To capture part of the profits of the public works and industrial groups (their biggest customers). They indeed have the means to change a complete remote on an industrial quality machine. The world clearly needs more pressure on it's ressources

Disability is a very small part of their business. The 3% (random number) of sales to major wheelchair manufacturers isn't of much interest to them. In short, permobil may well complain; we are on the wrong side of the economic balance of power.


For a while, a French medical equipment repairer managed to obtain the parts.
I seem to remember that the valve was closed from the moment the repairer started sharing the parts with other companies in need in the sector.



Does the situation concern all of Europe ?
The UK ?
Is it the same in the United States? 
In Canada ?

What do we do? 
Does anyone know people who work there? 
Do we personally contact every member of the board of directors? 
Name and shaming for P&G? 
We kill their reputation on Twitter in all sectors activity where they are located? 
Paying a hacker on the Darknet to screw them up?



I'm not pissed off, I'm just beside myself!

The maker inside me really wants to entrust someone the task of
- dismantling the CJSM2,
- 3d scan the membrane,
- 3d print it with flexible filament,
- put it on thingiverse, github, grabcad, torrent, tor, usb keys etc ...
- find a china factory to make a fair cost drop shipping business on it !!!

Except that I don't have :
- a scanner,
- any multi filament,
- SLA printer...
- any maker on hand comfortable with the process. 
- the permobil guy here is not very techno,
- nor very receptive except when it comes to selling [OMFG that translation quirk is epic] ***an armchair*** [maybe a wheelchair is better] )!



Any ideas ?
Thanks a lot

My CJSM2 is the one on my thingiverse smartphone holder support page
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4963381

[Burgerman]

I think you need to relax a little.

2000 dollars, euros, pounds? Thats a rediculous permobil price. Permobil buy from PGDT and so can you. At half that price or less.

I bought THREE CJSM2 for £125, £150 and £150 UK pounds. On here, on eBay etc all new. And also other R-Net stuff. https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... f=2&t=8857
No they dont sell parts.

They do repair if required at their service centre. If yours was under warranty then you complaint is with your dealer.

I have never damaged a rubber gaitor on one of those. Unless you mean button? But if I did and if out of warranty I would buy a replacement on eBay or various other places for a couple of £. Yours was replaced in full with a new one so what is the problem?

[rover220]

Mode button issue is common, have seen many. You could plug in a seperate switch to operate the modes and save it happening again.

[Burgerman]

This guy has 4 new ones. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/353619511954 dont buy from him, bad feedback.

They go for half this price now and again. Which is what I paid. Also new. Plug and play. So get a spare, be patient, took me a couple of years to find 3 at the right price. And pay less. 2000 Euros?

[Mistral33]

Hi

Thanks all for your answers !
I have a little bit over estimated the price ; it's more around 1k than 2.

I agree there are definitely some opportunities around the web, I will look into the time I will need to. As well as pluging a switch on the good jack

@Burgerman They changed the full controller but the issue will comeback in 1 year the same way. Thank your for your links I m looking into now

Anyways, I stand up against the main reason I posted yesterday. It doesn't feel right having to change 99% of functional parts for a stupid designed 0,01$ button membrane ! It's like having to change a full car for two used tires IMO... Better : it's like repairing a Tesla for a dent on Wallmart car park ... You sell your house, or the Tesla

[Burgerman]

They do not want DIY attempts at repairs making a chair dangerous and breaking someones legs. But do have a service department.

[Mistral33]

Yes I understand. Wheelchair repair shop should alway be accredited on such easy repairs. And now the local repair shop could easily send a few pictures to show them how the P&G guidelines were followed. But you made a good point

[Burgerman]

Wheelchair repair shop should alway be accredited on such easy repairs.

When you try taking it apart and reassembling that joystick you will find it is not simple... Average wheelchair tech couldnt do it.

[slomobile]

Permobil has had to replace some PJSM and CJSM2 under warranty due to the voltpro charger melting the charge ports. Sometimes twice because the cause was not understood at first. Couple that with global shortages and official channels are likely stretched thin, resulting in less slack given on warranty repairs. However, someone has a pile of mostly good returned units with the toasted XLR connectors. Anyone know the refurbisher?

[Burgerman]

Hopefully not that matrin o bodger conman in the south of england.

[saker98]

Hopefully not that matrin o bodger conman in the south of england.

Hi John,

Do you mean this F1 Mechanic.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284292381200?hash=item4231257a10:g:IJkAAOSw5shgZJ-W

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284365263282?hash=item42357d91b2:g:oOMAAOSwSiNgq73q

Regards
Saker98

[Burgerman]

Thats the one run away.

[steves1977uk]

Those eBay chairs from MO would have half their nuts/bolts missing! Maybe I should dump my F55 back to him and say it's yours for £3k, which is what they charged me for their bodged work altogether.

Steve

[Rollin Positive]

You do know the F5 has 24 month warrenty?

2nd why not replace the whole joystick vs parts?

What I dont understand is the mode button why would you touch it so many times in a day?

Not use about UK but in the states they are back ordered but they may get a back up till they can catch up on inventory have you talked with Permobil??

[ex-Gooserider]

Is the membrane in question something with molded rubber buttons, or is it a printed flat sheet like the Pilot+ uses? If it is a flat sheet, I have fixed tears in those by using clear plastic sheets like "Contact Paper" or those little sheets they sell to laminate pictures and paper cards. Just put it on right over the original.

If the actual area over the button is gone, or the sheet is really messed up, I have made complete replacements out of heavy weight adhesive vinyl (the stuff they use to cover the consoles on commercial video games is ideal... However if you do this you need to put some thin material over the adhesive areas of the sheet that will touch the buttons or the sheet will stick to the button tops and give unpredictable responses.

In terms of doing DIY versions of a membrane that has more molded buttons, I'd suggest looking for a local makerspace, as having 3D printers and so on is pretty common these days at most maker spaces. However, being a cautious sort, I'd want to get my original from a used / non working joystick, not the one you are using now.... (Perhaps the old failed one if you still have it?)

ex-Gooserider