Battery IR PL8 ?

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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 06 Dec 2021, 03:32

this is the 80ah pack i need to redrill all the cells - i was able to remove the studs i added with red locktite - they are all not good -

i have the repair kit - i have enough to do them all -

i have a question - i am a bit confused how to use the kit -

i have the drill bit to make a new hole - thats fine - the other item that you would use to re-trend it - that part - how do i use it - i mean it dosnt fit any of my sockets to use the ratchet - does that go in the drill end also ?

i though it locked in a socket and turns it by hand manually - i have no idea how what do i connect that part to - ?

after making a new trend - then work the new part inside - then the studs again with red locktite again - and leave it alone

either this works or all of it is goin in the trash - the cells are good - i checked the IR with the tool - they all show very low IR - 0.35 less than half an Ohm

not bad - in that resprect - - the connections were always the issue with this pack - between soft material - i am sure they were all some what stripped from the start -

then the nyloc nuts on and off many times - didnt help - if i manage to fix it - will use new nylocs and red locktite the studs again - hopefully screw it down just once and done -
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby shirley_hkg » 06 Dec 2021, 05:28




youtu.be/b15IVMocg_s


It is a blind end , and may be too shallow to do it.

What's the existing size , M4/M5/M6 ?

Use set screw as stud , so you can hold on to it via allan key .
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 06 Dec 2021, 05:36

its M6 - not sure what i am doing with a set screw ?

i dont have anything i can use to hold the retrend tool after i drill the hole - i though i would have all i needed in the kit -

i may just use a vice grip and try it that way - dont even know what that tool is to hold it with two hands and turn slowly - i dont have it - that i know

i will try this on Wed night - have someone helping me drill it - i am pretty sure i will ruin them - but cant use them this way - so if it works fine - if not

garbage - they are good cells also - worked good with the bounder -
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 06 Dec 2021, 05:52

should i red locktite the Heli coil when installing it - or just the set screw when its done - - assuming i get this far without killing them
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby Burgerman » 06 Dec 2021, 06:14

If you use decide to loctite do it very carefully or it will get into the internal thread and ruin your day. So tiny amounts on the battery thread side only.
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 06 Dec 2021, 06:20

i just do the set screw then - once the coil is in there - dont think it will come off -

if i get that far - with all this going - i decided i will test the bounder pack Cap. tomorrow will charge full and start discharge - will take 28 hours and i know how much is there -

should i set the Pl8 to cut off at 2.5V or leave it at 2.9V ? i wonder what will cut it off first - BMS or make it till the end - i think BMS is set for 2.5V cut off

i think - not sure how its configured on the chair -
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby Burgerman » 06 Dec 2021, 06:34

2.9.
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby LROBBINS » 06 Dec 2021, 09:29

Expresso,

to hold and turn the tap you need what's called a tap wrench - there's a decent picture of one on the video link Shirley posted. It's a good idea to lubricate the tap, turn it in just a few turns, back off to break the chip, then turn it in a bit more. You can use oil, cutting oil, or, for soft aluminum, just some paraffin wax (e.g. an old candle). Be very careful not to bust through the bottom of the hole. Helicoils will hold in without locktite, so probably better to avoid it.
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby Burgerman » 06 Dec 2021, 12:42

To remove grease or oil, afterwards, I use a can of brake cleaner for really thorough degreasing. Amazon. Lay cell on its side and blast away!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Holts-1831697- ... r=8-5&th=1

Tap holder... https://www.amazon.co.uk/US-PRO-Adjusta ... 401&sr=8-9
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby shirley_hkg » 06 Dec 2021, 14:04


Make sure the Helicoil is NOT taller the hole.
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 06 Dec 2021, 17:36

thanks for all the suggestions - i found the holder and brake cleaner - should have it tomorrow - if it arrives its perfect

i will try this on Wed. - my helper Quickie - is going to be doing the drilling - i will mark the drill bit to as how far to drill down -

will do all the cells 16 holes to drill and tap - may not get it done in one night - its not too deep those cells - maybe 1/2 inch drilling down at most i think

just enough to fit the helicoil - i will measure the helicoil - i dont think they are more than 1/2 inch - will make it fit just enough below the top of the cell

going to be interesting - i watched the videos - its not that hard really - if you can use a drill and with steady hands etc, - thats the trick

and thats where it may not work out perfect - - a drill press would be ideal - nice steady - just lower it down and up and done -
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby shirley_hkg » 07 Dec 2021, 01:22


I wonder if you could do it , without a bottom tap. ! drunk2
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 07 Dec 2021, 04:05

what is a bottom tap ?


hey the way the pack is now - if i cant fix it - its garbage anyway - nothing to loose - would suck - because they are good - if they weren't stripped

80ah is a good size
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby Burgerman » 07 Dec 2021, 09:28

taps. All are SAME thread.

FIRST one isnt needed for soft metals and is a starter tap.
SECOND one is a intermediate tap. If tapping most holes this is all you need.
THIRD one is used AFTER the other tap(s) when tapping a blind hole like your battery.

To make the thread go to the BOTTOM of the hole... So your threaded stud screws in further. Or your helicoil goes in properly.

You may need one to make sure your helicoil screws in properly. If you loctite that and I would, then you may need a smaller M6 one to clean the red loctite from the inner thread too.
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby LROBBINS » 07 Dec 2021, 11:38

Although U.S. and metric taps are both in sets of 3, the two are a little bit different. In metric sets, the first tap, marked by a single ring, is both tapered and a bit smaller diameter. The second tap, marked by two rings, has a shorter taper and is slightly larger diameter. The third tap has very little taper (but still some) and threads to final diameter. The advantage of the metric scheme is that the drill size doesn't need to exactly match the thread throat diameter so you need fewer different drill sizes (though, for example, a 3.2 mm drill, not in most simple sets, is the correct one for a 4 mm thread). The disadvantage is that, in harder materials, you have to use all 3 taps one after the other.

U.S. sets are taper, plug and bottoming and differ only in the amount of taper, but all have the same final thread diameter. The advantage of the U.S. scheme is that you can use only one tap - taper for through holes, plug where there's enough bottom clearance, or bottom when there's no bottom clearance. The disadvantage is that you need a pretty complete set of odd-sized drills that match each particular thread - hence there are fractional-sized, number-sized and letter-sized drills in a full machinist's set.

This leaves out pipe taps, that are also different in metric and U.S. series although plumbing fittings are both given in inches, but the are inches of an ideal, laminar flow tube not of the actual tube or pipe we use. Metric pipe fittings, however, are straight thread and need copious sealant or teflon tape to seal them. U.S. pipe fittings have a pretty marked taper so need almost no sealant in order to get a leak-free connection.

With helicoil kits you really don't have to worry about this. The supplied drill is the right size for the supplied tap which is a bottoming style. If you break a drill bit, however, don't be surprised if it isn't a common 1mm or 0.5 mm bit, but something a few tenths of a mm different. The helicoil will screw in fairly easily, but it gets tightly pressed into the thread when the bolt is screwed in. Once in and after having a bolt inserted it's pretty hard to get them back out, with or without using loctite.
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 07 Dec 2021, 17:33

i will try it with the tools i received from the kit - i am getting the tap holder today and got a can of brake cleaner -

i do my best - if it works great - if not - garbage - not going to stress over this - i wont buy any new cells going forward if they are not welded studs on top -

best way to avoid this happening - if this dosnt work - i can at least practice on the rest - so in case i have to do this again - maybe i get it right

i have two more in the chair packs - one is mines - one is quickies - hopefully i never have to address them to repair etc, - quickie has her a year -

i gave it a charge a while back looks fine but i hate to think about it - if i had to repair it - we see how this goes tomorrow

i am not going to red locktite the helicoil - too messy - its going to be tight - it wont come out - when if i get past this - i will only locktite the stud screw on top as before - and leave it a week before touching it -

if i get this far -
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby Scragger7 » 07 Dec 2021, 18:06

expresso wrote:what is a bottom tap ?



So you didn't watch the video on taping.
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 07 Dec 2021, 19:45

i have watched A video on it - dont recall what a bottom tap is -
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 07 Dec 2021, 23:56

Bounder turned out to have 94965ah before it stopped at 2.9v - lets say 95ah - short 5A - it was used for 3 years - but only summer time and not all the time -

so i either lost 5A or the cells are out of balance - which is most likely - no way to know how much out of balance it could be - if it reached 95A discharged - dont think it can be that bad -
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 08 Dec 2021, 04:04

Bounder after 3 years

if you add it up - maybe really less than a years daily use
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby Burgerman » 08 Dec 2021, 04:58

So about 300 cycles?
Its still new! But sadly only a small pack compared to whats possible today.
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 08 Dec 2021, 05:05

yeah cant be much more - maybe 500 at best cycles - but i do use alot each time i ride -

so it shows 95ah 5 short of brand new - not bad really - i was expecting 90ah - i am charging it now to about 70ah and leaving it - wont be used till June next year
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 09 Dec 2021, 02:59

close but no cigar - i almost though i was going to save it - i gave up on this -

RIP -

drilling it down wasnt as easy as it seems - it didnt want to go past a certain point - - one cell had some sparks - from the brake cleaner and then drilling -

then the tap to make new trends - not as easy as it seems to hold it straight - getting the new coil in there - didnt get deep enough -

3 cells - seems to get too large and M6 was no longer working - i gave up - its going in the garbage

too bad - i am sure someone with experience and the right tools - drill press - and other tools to hold it straight etc, - it may have worked -
Attachments
20211208_194914.jpg
20211208_194930.jpg
Quickie P222se - 60Ah ADD ON
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 09 Dec 2021, 03:04

If anyone is near me in NYC and wants this pack to give it a shot to fix it - you can keep it if you fix it

let me know - come pick it up

i was thinking - get a larger tap M8 - redrill it larger - - 3 cells i would have to do - the rest i got the coil inside - not all the way - i cut off some off the top

its not flush -

if i did that and it worked - then i have to new Ring ends larger to make it flush contact - new cables - etc, i am calling it quits - i tried -

i rather spend the money on a new pack - but i wont do that - i will just use one of my other packs - 50ah and 45ah - should be just enough for the bounder

95ah bounder - 50ah ADD ON - should be enough for my day - i will find out in the summer -

i am sure someone else with experience may have made it work -
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby Burgerman » 09 Dec 2021, 09:50

I am very sure it would have worked. Having done many of these things. But relying on carers to drill straight, deep enough etc with a hand drill is the problem. Inexperience with metalwork. A degree of precision is needed. Thats a shame.

Yes I could do a neat accurate job with a hand drill. But must have drilled thousands of holes in my 62 years. Plus I would have used my pillar anyway, drill to both drill, set depth, and to tap the threads. But it was worth you trying.
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Re: Battery IR PL8 ?

Postby expresso » 09 Dec 2021, 17:36

yes you need the experience doing this stuff - someone who done it before - correct tools - hand held - never good - i tried it to see -

nothing to loose - i wasnt going to use them anymore unless i could have fixed it this way or nothing - - thinking it over - i may just order 8 more new ones

i found 100ah cells with welded studs - would be easy - i can use the same wiring - this way i wont worry with the bounder - i rather have more than enough - so both chair pack and ADD on dont get worked too much - they help each other

they weight a bit less than the current ones also - a little insurance in case the BMS cuts off on a long ride or something - i will use the other one on my indoor chair instead -

if anyone here wants them - if they are close enough to me - they can come get them - i make them an espresso also :thumbup:
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