motor/brake failures

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motor/brake failures

Postby probob » 09 Dec 2021, 01:19

I have been using/repairing powerchairs for a few years now and currently own 7 chairs including permobil, invacare and jazzy. Permobil is high quality product and I have had little trouble with it. Have old jazzy 1115 {20 yrs old) It was well used by a very large gentleman when I bought it. Used it in auto repair shop for several years. Pushed cars with it, carried tires and stuff and it performed flawlessly with few problems. I bought a 2000 permobil and have used it outdoors for 7 years. Great chair. Have had numerous invacare chairs and they are by far the worst. Always eating gearboxes. I am in the habit of adding a grease fitting to gearbox and lubing with grease and gear oil mixed. Seems to help a lot as the drive gears like to apple core. I have noticed that it is always the right side gearbox or brake wiring that fails first. I have a jazzy 600 (POS) that I bought new. I have repaired the brake wiring on the right side 3 times in 2 years, replacing entire wires with more flexible wires. I have 3 invacare m51 chairs. All three ate the right gearbox, one twice. Have added lube fittings to replacement gearboxes with some success. I currently have a TDX SI and the right brake wires are broken and the right tire is bald, left side good. I don't understand why the right side always fails first. Have had no left side failures. Any thoughts on this?
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Re: motor/brake failures

Postby fishinjunky » 09 Dec 2021, 13:07

same with my 12 year old invicare tdx sp. Right motor failed first. The left motor is still going. I replaced the right side motor little over a year ago. My joystick is on the right side i dont know if that has anything to do with it
Invacare tdx sp
Bounder 300M 200ah lifepo4
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Re: motor/brake failures

Postby biscuit » 09 Dec 2021, 13:16

An earlier discussion of motor failure: https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... =2&t=10671
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Re: motor/brake failures

Postby martin007 » 09 Dec 2021, 21:12

Typically, troubled engines and brakes give warning signals.
That is what I have lived.
Decrease in power.
Repeated problems.
Strange noises.
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Re: motor/brake failures

Postby SweetBearCub » 04 Jan 2022, 09:11

I had a 2008 Invacare TDX SP. It was an older version than the one now, with black wheels, gray tires, and a 5.8 MPH maximum speed.

It was my very first power wheelchair, and I didn't even know that I had other choices at the time.

It was an unmitigated piece of junk.

- In the 4 and a half years that I owned it, it had at least 3 complete motor/gearbox swaps, both sides.
- It ate up at least 5 cush drives.
- The right side gearbox separated from the motor and leaked gear oil all over my apartment.
- It had numerous front caster bearing replacements, because the front casters would begin to flutter after a few months.
- It began to lose speed as its MK5 SPJ+ joystick wore internally, not allowing the full 0 to 255 range.
- The joystick handle was a 2 piece design, and the top piece wore out much faster than the P&G one piece version.
- It left me stranded once as I was rolling down a sidewalk, only to come to a halt, flashing an error. We found out that the motor connections to the control box were on the bottom of the vertically-oriented module, so that vibrations and gravity could work them loose, even though there was supposedly a locking collar system.

As much as Mark E. Smith may not have been the most technically minded person and maybe even a corporate shill, he is the person who showed me that I had the right to demo several makes and models of wheelchair, and his articles on various subjects gave me a better understanding of different aspects. He was also nice enough to mail me a spare charger at no cost, even though he worked for Pride, and my chair was not a Pride product.

I replaced it with a MUCH better Sunrise Medical Quickie S636, and I do mean better in every possible way.
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Re: motor/brake failures

Postby Burgerman » 04 Jan 2022, 13:40

Personally I buy Sunrise Medical/Quickie chairs mostly. Because they keep things simple and easy to repair and get parts. Use generic electronics parts. And easy to get oem programmers. And because they are typically cheaper than the alternatives. Also because in the EU/most of the planet they have always offered a good selection of rear drive powerchairs. But not in america or canada sadly and its hard to know why. You are using a 3 generation old design. They never bring these modern rear drives to your market.
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Re: motor/brake failures

Postby slomobile » 04 Jan 2022, 23:16

I don't know if this fits with your situation or not, but we noticed a similar trend on small robots.
Always the left side if belt driven final drive, always the right if gear driven wheels. There were 2 factors that contributed to failures.

1) The motors did not have neutral commutation timing. With equal current, the motors would turn consistently slightly faster in one direction. When you flip an identical motor to put it on the opposite side, it would eventually drive in a big circle. Its easy to compensate with the controller, but one motor on average is always drawing a bit more current, sparking more, depositing more carbon on the commutator bars, failing first.

2) The other factor was helical cut gears. They were quieter, but always put a slight axial thrust load on either the output side or the input side depending on the direction of rotation. There were always better thrust bearings on the output side than the input side. In configurations that frequently put axial thrust on the input side, the motor bearings or brushes/commutator would fail from misalignment.
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Re: motor/brake failures

Postby SweetBearCub » 04 Jan 2022, 23:19

Burgerman wrote:Personally I buy Sunrise Medical/Quickie chairs mostly. Because they keep things simple and easy to repair and get parts. Use generic electronics parts. And easy to get oem programmers. And because they are typically cheaper than the alternatives. Also because in the EU/most of the planet they have always offered a good selection of rear drive powerchairs. But not in america or canada sadly and its hard to know why. You are using a 3 generation old design. They never bring these modern rear drives to your market.


Yeah, I am really happy with my Quickie S636, although I want to try a Bounder for my next chair since they stopped making the S6-series, and the Bounder seems to be even sturdier.

As far as WHY we seem to lag behind the models on offer in the EU, maybe they don't see it as worth it for various reason? For example, even after adding the population of the USA and Canada together, the EU still has about a 20% larger population.
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Re: motor/brake failures

Postby Burgerman » 04 Jan 2022, 23:44

But the same logic applies to the mid, front, hybrid chairs. And they sell those in the US!

And I might add that the UK and most of europe isnt even in the EU. The EU is a trading group, that has turned into a new born again socialist superstate, a new soviet union style wannabe. Thats why we in Britain wanted OUT. Sick to death of the EU wanting to control our country. Now it cant. The EU is not Europe in spite of it keeping telling the world that! And more will follow.

Theres no competition for rear drive in the US. Theres loads here! So the US wold likely be a better and easy place to sell. And all the development work is already done. They ALREADY produce them for 15 years here alongside the mid, front drives which seem less popular. So theres got to be some other reason.
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