new cells capacity expectations

[wheelchairer]

i believe you can just use the balance wire you need - dont cut the wires on the balance cable

make two ends with ring connectors - leave the rest alone - once you find out which two you need to use - i would think its the Pos and Neg one - but i dont know that for sure

BM would - -

yes I agree with you, but I would certainly like confirmation from a more experienced forum member first before I frazzle anything

[expresso]

thanks - those are good to know - like you said - amazon dosnt show any for 8S - why i dont know - does no body use 8S

digit key is good - would have to call to ask if they have 8S also

the other link which has the PA end and XH on the other end - do you know if thats a male XH end or Female XH end -

what i get confused alot is also this pitch thing - do you need to know a certain pitch or just get any PA 8S if i find - same with the XH ?

i didnt scroll down enough

i found this - would this the one that fits the PL 8 end ?

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... AajADK9BkA

[expresso]

i believe you can just use the balance wire you need - dont cut the wires on the balance cable

make two ends with ring connectors - leave the rest alone - once you find out which two you need to use - i would think its the Pos and Neg one - but i dont know that for sure

BM would - -

yes I agree with you, but I would certainly like confirmation from a more experienced forum member first before I frazzle anything

yes best thing - double check - cant be too safe -

[swalker]

i found this - would this the one that fits the PL 8 end ?

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... AajADK9BkA

That connector only has 8 pins. You need 9 pins for an 8s balancing connector.

Steve

[expresso]

thanks this one then


https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... AGowAyvQZA

[swalker]

Making up a cable with a JST-PA connector is fiddly. I would go out of my way to buy a premade cable.

Steve

[expresso]

yes i agree and i dont want to make them if i can help it

just to know where i can get them in case - they are out of stock

i will get some cables from the other site - ready made with PA end for the PL8 - XH on the other end -

do you know if thats a Male or female XH - i dont see extensions cables for those -

i seen some youtube videos on it - i would solder if anything and just crimp just enough - its something to try in the winter - just to see how it works out - all i need are the ends - to practice a bit - they are out of stock there

[swalker]

the other link which has the PA end and XH on the other end - do you know if thats a male XH end or Female XH end -

I don't know. You will need to contact them to find out.

what i get confused alot is also this pitch thing - do you need to know a certain pitch or just get any PA 8S if i find - same with the XH ?

The pitch is the distance between pins. The pitch is different between JST-PA (which is 2mm) and JST-XH (which is 2.5mm). Wikipedia does a good job of explaining: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JST_connector


Steve

[expresso]

thanks - so we need 2mm for the PA for the PL 8 - thats all i need to know - i dont know if its different or all the 8S PA would be the same pitch

i called the place for the cable - didnt have extension - and forgot to ask if female or male - i call again - i just figured if you can tell from the picture

[swalker]

thanks this one then


https://www.digikey.com/en/products/det ... AGowAyvQZA

That looks like the connector that will plug into the PL8. But be sure to review the data sheet (there is a link in the digikey page you referenced).

Steve

[expresso]

data sheet shows 2mm pitch - if thats all i need to know - then its correct one ?

8S 9 pin JST PA 2mm pitch - ?

thats all that needed to match - or more to it ?

[swalker]

thanks - so we need 2mm for the PA for the PL 8 - thats all i need to know - i dont know if its different or all the 8S PA would be the same pitch

i called the place for the cable - didnt have extension - and forgot to ask if female or male - i call again - i just figured if you can tell from the picture

JST-PA is a standard. Any JST-PA connector must have a 2.00mm pitch to be compliant with the standard.

The PL8 takes a 9 pin JST-PA connector in the balancing port.

Male vs. female is confusing when it comes to connectors. Some sources make the determination by the configuration of the housing. Others make the determination by the actual metal connectors (pins and receptacles). To be consistent, I always try to go by the metal parts.

So I consider the connectar that has metal pins to be male and the connector that has metal receptacles for pins to be female.

Based on this definition, the Pl8 has a male connector installed and accepts a cable with a female connector.

Steve

[expresso]

right - thats how i see it also

male and female - i called the store and no answer now - so they must be closed for the day

i check it tomorrow call them - to ask about extension to that cable - that would solve the problem and dont have to make any

[shirley_hkg]

Why take the bull by the horns. Just $1

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... start=1500

[expresso]

Do you have a link to those so we can purchase them ?

thanks

[shirley_hkg]

https://m.tb.cn/h.f81jHE2?sm=911cdc

※六月航空※PL8/PL6 充电线

[expresso]

thanks - i try to translate it and see what i can come up with -


it worked - but only 2 in stock -

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=655 ... pp=firefox

[wheelchairer]

i believe you can just use the balance wire you need - dont cut the wires on the balance cable

make two ends with ring connectors - leave the rest alone - once you find out which two you need to use - i would think its the Pos and Neg one - but i dont know that for sure

BM would - -

yes I agree with you, but I would certainly like confirmation from a more experienced forum member first before I frazzle anything

yes best thing - double check - cant be too safe -

I asked somebody not on this forum for reply to this question, but this is the best I could get. Have you got any further with this question?

If you are charging a single cell and you want to check the internal resistance using that PL 8, on the tab with the internal systems it says "requires 4 wire measurement using the bananas and node wires." (See attachment) so when charging one sell I would logically guess that you are required to plug the balance cable into the PL 8 charger and connect the positive and negative cable from the balance cable to the cells positive and negative terminals, yes?

Oooh good question, yes I would of assumed so. As the charger needs to see the main positive/negative points as well as the cells balance connections to determine the IR.
Having never really used a Revolectrix past simple charging for testing purposes, keep me posted if this works.

[Burgerman]

You are not getting a simple easy to understand answer because its not as simple as that.

[Burgerman]

What are you after?
An accurate cell resistance reading???

Well heres a few things to think about.
1. The internal resistance varies by temperature. By state of charge. By recent charge or discharge history. For e.g the resistance of a lihium cell may vary by 100% or more due to its state of charge. Or by temperature.

2. A battery resistance can only be measured accurately using an AC IMPEDANCE meter at high frequency. With FOUR probes. DIRECT to the battery terminal (NOT a connector or bolt or nut or ring terminal. Because the resistance you are attempting to measure is less than that of a connection or a bit of wire... Because the resistance you are attempting to measure is LESS THAT that of any connections or wires you connect it with.

3. Not by a DC test. Esp so with lead batteries. You must use an AC impedance tester. Why? Because a DC current is both charging or discharging the battery. And the initial chemical reaction happens fast and dies away. So doing this with a DC load or DC charge cant ever read resistance accurately. Or even semi accurately.

Will adding 2 "balance wires" help on the PL8? It will remove the effect caused by the fat charge cables only. All the rest of the issues remain.

Thats why I bought one of these. ONLY to be used on bare battery terminals, and with lead at 100% charge, and with lithium, at 50% charge. Testing at 100% charge on a lithium battery WILL give a reading that is accurate, but it will be 1/4 to double the reading at 50% charge. Visa versa with lead. So like all tools it requires knowledge.

This is why AC impedance measuring meter need to test with an AC current, and measure the actual voltage on UNLOADED seperate wires, which can read the real voltage or waveform accurately as negligable current is passing through the sensor wires. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32827028207.html

Sadly thats about as "simple" as this gets.

[wheelchairer]

What are you after?
An accurate cell resistance reading???

just to get the PL 8 to do an internal resistance graph on a charge of a single cell.

Will adding 2 "balance wires" help on the PL8? It will remove the effect caused by the fat charge cables only.

so which cables from the balance cable do you connect to the positive and negative on the single cell?

[wheelchairer]

Hook up balance wires to the one cell, along with the main charge wires so you will have two wires going to each terminal (one charge, one balance)

The PL8 needs both the charge wires and the balance wires to do it's measuring.

ex-Gooserider

and it is the positive on the balance cable you connect to the positive on the terminal of the cell, and the negative on the balance cable you connect to the negative terminal of the cell, yes?

[wheelchairer]

I understand all the other issues will remain, but the question still remains

Will adding 2 "balance wires" help on the PL8? It will remove the effect caused by the fat charge cables only.

so which cables from the balance cable do you connect to the positive and negative on the single cell?[/quote]

[Burgerman]

Theres TWO different ways. Depending on if you are using FMA balance wiring or XH/EH wiring system. PL8 does both... See below.

Read manual... Both require different connectons. Both work. Both are a waste of time on single cell.

FMA uses neg and pos. XH uses neg and cell 1. I use FMA as that allows up to 3A charge via balance wires only for small battery packs. No main charge wires to connect. I was not answering as I was trying not to make your brain explode!

[wheelchairer]

thanks BM

[wheelchairer]

To be honest with you all I'm trying to do is collect appropriate data in order to justify sending them back if they are wrong. To that end I will;
1. Do a full charge of every cell and give them the graphs of what has happened in the charging, including the internal resistance and full pack capacity. They claim you can only check the battery amperage, not each individual cell. So I will do the same (whether or not it is necessary) with a full pack.

2. I have also ordered one of those things you said for checking the resistance. When I have that I will do a charge of each cell, and check the resistance at 50% as you suggested, but also at 2.9 V and 3.6 V. Just so they have all the information.

If they are not up to standard, I will get a refund and order a new set from the people that my good friend expresso has found. thanks for your help again.

[Burgerman]

To be honest with you all I'm trying to do is collect appropriate data in order to justify sending them back if they are wrong. To that end I will;
1. Do a full charge of every cell and give them the graphs of what has happened in the charging, including the internal resistance and full pack capacity. They claim you can only check the battery amperage, not each individual cell. So I will do the same (whether or not it is necessary) with a full pack.

If by "amperage" you mean Ah then you can only measure that by DISCHARGING from full to a rather low 2.5V and graph this either by cell, or by pack. Any DC measured intrnal resistance measured via the PL8 will be wildly innacurate and only of use as a comparison by you. So should not be used in evidence of anything.

2. I have also ordered one of those things you said for checking the resistance. When I have that I will do a charge of each cell, and check the resistance at 50% as you suggested, but also at 2.9 V and 3.6 V. Just so they have all the information.

Thats the only accurate way.

[Burgerman]

To be honest with you all I'm trying to do is collect appropriate data in order to justify sending them back if they are wrong. To that end I will;
1. Do a full charge of every cell and give them the graphs of what has happened in the charging, including the internal resistance and full pack capacity. They claim you can only check the battery amperage, not each individual cell. So I will do the same (whether or not it is necessary) with a full pack.

If by "amperage" you mean Ah then you can only measure that by DISCHARGING from full to a rather low 2.5V and graph this either by cell, or by pack. Any DC measured intrnal resistance measured via the PL8 will be wildly innacurate and only of use as a comparison by you. So should not be used in evidence of anything.

2. I have also ordered one of those things you said for checking the resistance. When I have that I will do a charge of each cell, and check the resistance at 50% as you suggested, but also at 2.9 V and 3.6 V. Just so they have all the information.

Thats the only accurate way.

[expresso]

this has been going on a while - i would try to get it done ASAP -

i wouldnt even wait for the tool to check IR etc, i would want to know if they are Full Capacity as they say

that can take one day for one cell or maybe two cells a day if you do it faster


i would charge up; one cell full -- then discharge it down to 2.9V and thats it - what ever it shows as Cap out is the capacity of that cell - they may say you didnt go to 2.5V so its not accurate - but from 2.9V to 2.5v there is maybe 3Ah more so if it shows 145ah when done - i say its close enough - but only you can decided if you are Ok with 145ah cells - if they are 140ah , 135ah some of them etc, then you know its not the full 150ah - mines were all in the 185ah range - they should have been 200ah - plus is the QR codes in tact - can you scan them etc, mines were not - clear sign they were not new - take screen shots of those details for each cell you do

if you were sold a 150ah cell - and got 145ah out of it - i say its still OK - but if you got 120ah out of a 150ah - not OK you have to decided then if they cheated you - you can ask for a refund - and keep them as is - you would have to decided how much a refund you are OK with and keep them - if they agree - then thats that

if they done and keep pulling your leg after you done each cell and see the Capacity is not as advertised - then you have to decide what you want to do - if Ali express dosnt help - and the seller dosnt care - you may have a problem - you then have to start a dispute with your Credit Card or who ever you used to pay for them

i would do it as soon as you can - how long has it been since you paid - since you received them ?

it happened to me - i got a good results only after i stopped the charge with my credit card and went back and forth - till it was resolved in my favor - it could have went either way - glad it went my way - and hope my new cells are not the same story with this new seller - i have a good feeling they wont be - seller has been super nice during and after the sale so far -

we keep in contact also - when i receive them - i can test and confirm it - and i think fish will get his sooner than me - so he would know better - mines wont arrive till Feb. i hope anyway - unless there were in that boat got half of containers in the ocean

[Wavedy2]

1. You cannot determine capacity on charge.

how do you affirm that ? which sources have you ?

since a decade i'm using life i have tested that and it,s exactely the same doing that when cells are empty or full. and it is logical
all the test i made give me a less than 5/100 difference; sometime in favour of one way sometime in favour of the other way

ciao !