200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 23 Apr 2022, 14:34

Its about half the miles per Ah that I get.

So that bounder must be a nightmare with lead batteries. Remember that you only get a little over half what it says on the lable with lead. So an 80Ah lead battery give around 45Ah bfore you stop moving. That means it would only have 8 miles range if you murdered the battery daily.

I suspect that your combination of weight, hills, low tyre pressures and speed (gearing) and the bounders natural greed are the killer.

Even so, that means you can still travel 38 miles. Maybe much more if you avoid hills and lots of zero turning.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 23 Apr 2022, 16:52

Burgerman wrote:Its about half the miles per Ah that I get.

So that bounder must be a nightmare with lead batteries. Remember that you only get a little over half what it says on the lable with lead. So an 80Ah lead battery give around 45Ah bfore you stop moving. That means it would only have 8 miles range if you murdered the battery daily.

I suspect that your combination of weight, hills, low tyre pressures and speed (gearing) and the bounders natural greed are the killer.

Even so, that means you can still travel 38 miles. Maybe much more if you avoid hills and lots of zero turning.


That's GREAT an the hills were very steep an really rugged offroading an zero turning. This ride was more of a steep hill offroading test.
With lead batteries I was only getting 6 to 8 miles offroading so only 4mi out an 4mi back an that is murdering them daily. I would have to buy new lead batteries every year. Ñow I got 5x the range and it does way better pulling hills an is more responsive. It just feels better especially turning.
Going from around 6 to 8mi range up to 38mi offroading. I'm extremely HAPPY with those results.
Now I'm going to do a more flat road test.
My issue now isn't running out of charge it's running out of road to ride in my small town. May have to put a orange flag on my chair an hit the main highway :lol:
In town our sidewalks are horrible so I ride out in the road I don't care if I irritate people that have to drive around me.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 23 Apr 2022, 16:57

where/what is your town?
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 23 Apr 2022, 17:16

Burgerman wrote:where/what is your town?


Town: Petersburg 26847
State: West Virginia
Country: United States

The sidewalks very dangerous with big blind drop offs an power poles in the middle of the sidewalks. They made the main street sidewalks somewhat accessible last year. It's really bad just one little spasm an bam I could be flipped on my side an crushed by a Mac truck.. It would be impossible with a mwd or fwd chair.

How are the sidewalks an roads where you live?
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 23 Apr 2022, 19:49

Variable. Its a medium sized town. Actually 2. Grimsby a fishing port (once the worlds largest until some moron signed us up to the EU which decimated it) and cleethorpes which is a seaside town. They are one big place.

Some modern, smooth, completely perfect with ramps and wide access everywhere and smooth. And others like a farm track... With everything in between, as you get to the edges of the towns it gets worse. The town centres and main roads are fine. Sea front and traffic free nature pathways etc are all smooth tarmac and theres miles of them around the sea areas. All meant for tourists.

You have a population of 2000?
Grimsby has 88,000, mostly low lifes. Cleethorpes which is the same place really as they grew into each other, has 40,000. So I can go to the beach in 4 miles. I used to take my dog there for a walk most days. And spend half a day with laptop and ice creme watching the bikini clad tourists... Or the other direction, parks and fields. You have better weather and less low life chavs.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 24 Apr 2022, 01:53

So I can go to the beach in 4 miles. I used to take my dog there for a walk most days. And spend half a day with laptop and ice creme watching the bikini clad tourists... Or the other direction, parks and fields.


That sounds like my kind of place cheers
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 10:16

Its only problem is that when the sun is out it gets kind of popular. This was sunday. Several miles of this! Pavemnts and pedestrian areas are great for whhelchairs if you can get past the hordes of people. On dull days its deserted/empty!

This is because its easter holiday.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 10:28

Spot the difference!
This is most other times!!! No holidays, not as warm... Kids at school etc. Now you can move.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 11:16

Shopping/town centre
Mostly a mix of old and new. But yes very accessible and wheelchair freindly in a poor run down town.
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Inside shopping centre obviously smooth. About to be rebuilt as a new shopping/entertainment complex... its old.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 11:22

While the town centre and most of the main roads are pretty good like the pic above, thats not true everywhere. There are a few deprived and run down areas where the housing is as bad as the roads and footpaths...
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Typical of a third of this town.
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OLD run down docks. Almost deserted. Theres miles of this.
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Old part of grimsby, no shopping centre or modernisation here... Footpaths mostly OK
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There are a good few places where the housing is to put it mildly inadequate and old. And run down, abandoned in the poorest areas of this town. The footpaths/pavements are often blocked by bins, cars, ets. It couldnt get much worse. But you would need a rear gunner to go there anyway!
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby steves1977uk » 24 Apr 2022, 11:29

That looks very similar to Great Yarmouth BM! The Golden Mile is packed in high season. Here's an image search... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=great+yarmout ... &ia=images

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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 11:38

Most of the towns housing are streets similar to my own street. You probably know how that looks already.

So you can choose the road or the footpath.

Some bits are not great! But theres an army of council bodgers that go round fixing it. Badly. Because anything bigger than 20mm is considered a trip hazard. The council get sued if anyone trips on it...
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Some bits are pretty terrible!
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 11:50

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5580255 ... 384!8i8192

This is my street. Theres thousands like it. Pavements not great. But theres no traffic so why nt use the roads. This ist exact, look the left side of the road, and for my black chrysler. Then go out into the main road, typical pavements out there like most of the town.

That looks very similar to Great Yarmouth BM! The Golden Mile is packed in high season. Here's an image search... https://duckduckgo.com/?q=great+yarmout ... &ia=images

Steve


Gt yarmouth probably prettier than here! But all seaside town get the holiday season or weekend / sunshine thing I suppose. I hate it when the school holidays are on. Thousands of teenagers everywhere...
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 12:18

We have taken over the thread. Well it did say pictures!

An idea. Maybe we should all post a google street view link of the streets we live in. And maybe a 2nd one of the nearest town centre. In my case a mile or so. So we can wander around and have a look. Like mine here.
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5580255 ... 384!8i8192
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 24 Apr 2022, 14:16

What a great idea! I really enjoy seeing the pictures of where you guys live

Main street of the small town I live in
109 WV-28
https://maps.app.goo.gl/odWsnbFxJ6Lqkn4R8


And my house. No street view yet just a screen shot
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 24 Apr 2022, 14:22

Center of town main street. Check out the sidewalks :lol:
https://street360.net/usa/west-virginia ... county.php

Bm,
Not many people here realize there is nice beaches over there. Those sidewalksin town are nice an wide it looks like an more level. I think I would have a good time riding around your town hitting the pubs beer

They just patch the roads an sidewalks here just enough to get by. Same holes over an over. I couldn't go anywhere around here without a rugged rwd chair
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 14:34

Theres a few places with no dropped curbs that leave you stuck... Otherwise not that terrible. But out of town theres no choice but mixing it with the trucks and busses.

We are an island. Everyone is near a beach! Its not the beaches but the weather thats the problem. Most of the time the only thing a beach is good for here is dog walking or horses..
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 24 Apr 2022, 14:46

Burgerman wrote:Theres a few places with no dropped curbs that leave you stuck... Otherwise not that terrible. But out of town theres no choice but mixing it with the trucks and busses.

We are an island. Everyone is near a beach! Its not the beaches but the weather thats the problem. Most of the time the only thing a beach is good for here is dog walking or horses..


I was just about to ask about the weather there.

How many pubs are in your town bm?
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 24 Apr 2022, 17:16

Its hot out. My hair line is starting to receed an I forgot sunblock now I get blisters on my forehead bunt shit out of it. Went riding looking for a big black bear spotted couple streets over.

It's crazy how much better my chair performs with lifepo4 it goes up really steep hills easily at 6mph no struggle an way better offroading. An 7.5 to 8.5mph on flat. The suspension feels much better. I'm loving the range but I didn't know it would improve my chairs over all performance this much!! :dance

I'm also running a small fan continuously from my chair while riding to keep me cool on hot days

I'm going to do more test rides to get more accurate averages to compare.my offroad miles to flat road miles. I'm thinking somewhere around a ratio of 1 offroad mile is around 2 flat road miles.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 19:33

fishinjunky wrote:
It's crazy how much better my chair performs with lifepo4 it goes up really steep hills easily at 6mph no struggle an way better offroading. An 7.5 to 8.5mph on flat. The suspension feels much better. I'm loving the range but I didn't know it would improve my chairs over all performance this much!! :dance

This isnt because of the slightly higher voltage. Its because that under load the voltage on the LiFePO4 doesent really drop much. Maybe half a volt. But the lead can drop by 3 to 5 volts as you load it up.

This is the reason I prefer LOW IMPEDANCE lead batteries. Like the ODYSSEY ones I use. They still drop, as much of this drop isnt just due to impedance (resistance) but the peukert value. But both are related. So if impedance is low so is peukert. The chemical reaction that causes the peukert effect is on the surface of the plates and a few molecules into the electrolyte. And as amps go up the resistance rapidly increases. So the voltage falls off a cliff at high loads like hills. MK gel is TWICE as bad here as ODYSSEY is. 2.5 compared to 4.5mOhms. So half as capable under load. Cheaper batteries are even worse. So for fast charge, sport, highly programmed or heavy chairs, hills, go ODYSSEY!
I'm also running a small fan continuously from my chair while riding to keep me cool on hot days
I'm going to do more test rides to get more accurate averages to compare.my offroad miles to flat road miles. I'm thinking somewhere around a ratio of 1 offroad mile is around 2 flat road miles.

It will vary day to day. The biggest range loss and current increase is rolling along the edge of a cambered road or similar meant to drain water well. That eats power.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 19:37

Pubs? Its an ex largest fishing town on the planet. So has more pubs per square mile than anyplace you ever went to. Sadly around 1/3rd are now closed.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 24 Apr 2022, 20:23

Burgerman wrote:
fishinjunky wrote:
It's crazy how much better my chair performs with lifepo4 it goes up really steep hills easily at 6mph no struggle an way better offroading. An 7.5 to 8.5mph on flat. The suspension feels much better. I'm loving the range but I didn't know it would improve my chairs over all performance this much!! :dance

This isnt because of the slightly higher voltage. Its because that under load the voltage on the LiFePO4 doesent really drop much. Maybe half a volt. But the lead can drop by 3 to 5 volts as you load it up.

This is the reason I prefer LOW IMPEDANCE lead batteries. Like the ODYSSEY ones I use. They still drop, as much of this drop isnt just due to impedance (resistance) but the peukert value. But both are related. So if impedance is low so is peukert. The chemical reaction that causes the peukert effect is on the surface of the plates and a few molecules into the electrolyte. And as amps go up the resistance rapidly increases. So the voltage falls off a cliff at high loads like hills. MK gel is TWICE as bad here as ODYSSEY is. 2.5 compared to 4.5mOhms. So half as capable under load. Cheaper batteries are even worse. So for fast charge, sport, highly programmed or heavy chairs, hills, go ODYSSEY!
I'm also running a small fan continuously from my chair while riding to keep me cool on hot days
I'm going to do more test rides to get more accurate averages to compare.my offroad miles to flat road miles. I'm thinking somewhere around a ratio of 1 offroad mile is around 2 flat road miles.

It will vary day to day. The biggest range loss and current increase is rolling along the edge of a cambered road or similar meant to drain water well. That eats power.


It's made a huge difference with the bounder. I could never go back to lead
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 24 Apr 2022, 20:24

Burgerman wrote:Pubs? Its an ex largest fishing town on the planet. So has more pubs per square mile than anyplace you ever went to. Sadly around 1/3rd are now closed.


That would be a fun place to do a pub crawl cheers drunk2
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 20:27

If you change the programming under motor, using the sunrise 6.4 version, from 21.something (usually) volts, to 25V then you should also see a small speed gain. Free of charge... No torque loss. You MAY lose a little steering accuracy control headroom esp going uphill. See what that does for you. Dont go by the R-Net speed display thats nonsense. It says whatever you tell it to at full stick. It doesent measure speed. Compare using a GPS ap on your phone.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 24 Apr 2022, 20:42

Burgerman wrote:If you change the programming under motor, using the sunrise 6.4 version, from 21.something (usually) volts, to 25V then you should also see a small speed gain. Free of charge... No torque loss. You MAY lose a little steering accuracy control headroom esp going uphill. See what that does for you. Dont go by the R-Net speed display thats nonsense. It says whatever you tell it to at full stick. It doesent measure speed. Compare using a GPS ap on your phone.


Thanks bm
I really wish I had r-net unfortunately I have linx electronics. An the closest setting I can find for the voltage they have set at 26v banghead so not sure what they have going on there czy they have it set at 26v for lead which doesn't make sense to me.
The description of the setting says It adjusts the overall speed of the chair.

Any new chair I get in the future will be r-net for sure.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby steves1977uk » 24 Apr 2022, 21:38

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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 24 Apr 2022, 21:57

Looks like a decent area. Apart from same problem I have with people parking on footpaths. But no traffic so use the roads.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 25 Apr 2022, 14:16

steves1977uk wrote:Here's where I live... https://www.google.com/maps/@52.9503542 ... 312!8i6656 :thumbup:

Steve


Nice. I see some lilac flowers in the background. I'm going to pick some lilac flowers today for making wild lilac jelly. And a few other wild flower types. Maybe this Christmas I'll send a jar of the homemade jelly out to some of the members here as a gift

Homemade jelly toast an cup of coffee goes pretty good in the morning
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 26 Apr 2022, 02:38

went for a 13mile hilly offroad ride today an calculated it within one ah i calculated that i used 71ah. I just finished charging an put 70ah back in an it only took around 1hr 55mins. this is AWESOME :dance an still had around 120ah left to use.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 26 Apr 2022, 05:37

Charging and discharging is not 100 percent efficient. You put more back than you use. With lithium its not much different but maybe 2 to 4Ah so you probably used around 67 to 69Ah.
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