200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby ICEUK » 16 May 2022, 10:54

Fishjunky, are the flexible busbars copper wire in the middle or part of the busbar bent that way?
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 16 May 2022, 13:33

ICEUK wrote:Fishjunky, are the flexible busbars copper wire in the middle or part of the busbar bent that way?


They are made from 30 thin layers of copper bent in the middle an pressed òn the ends nickel plated. And insulated. But I would use bus cables an only use these flexible busbars as a last resort
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby slomobile » 27 May 2022, 20:07

fishinjunky wrote:
ICEUK wrote:Fishjunky, are the flexible busbars copper wire in the middle or part of the busbar bent that way?


They are made from 30 thin layers of copper bent in the middle an pressed òn the ends nickel plated. And insulated. But I would use bus cables an only use these flexible busbars as a last resort

What makes bus cables better? Are you talking about regular insulated cable with soldered lugs, or something specific?
Those flexible bars look pretty slick, I don't see the problem with them.

Is this the current state of the art now? Pack, charger, and supply? Should FJ's build be a new sticky for group 24 replacement?

My lead bricks are dying so this is in my near future.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby LROBBINS » 27 May 2022, 21:16

Remember that there's far more relative movement between a car's rubber-mounted motor and body than there is between adjacent cells in a battery pack. A connection that can tolerate the former will surely tolerate the later.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 27 May 2022, 21:34

I think I was reluctant because I didn’t see many people on here using them. I'm just assuming cables are more flexible an a better option if possible. The flexible busbars I used and the ones you listed are probably fine but they are the only two styles of flexible busbars I would use besides cable. I bent one of the busbars I used and it was really bendable. I'm just a worry wart that's all :thumbup:
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Micka7405 » 29 May 2022, 14:18

fishinjunky wrote:200ah lifepo4 build for my bounder 300 chair. Replacing group 24 lead bricks. Everything is soldered and crimped.

8 x 200ah lifepo4 cells:
https://m.alibaba.com/product/160016167 ... om=Android

Charger: iCharger 4010 duo
https://www.progressiverc.com/products/ ... 0704167047

Flexible busbars:
( I strongly recommend using bus CABLES instead of these. I ONLY used these Flexible busbars because I didn’t have the head space for bus cables).
Insulated Flexible Busars
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrM3EFs

Cable sizes:
Charging cables 8awg
Balance cables 16awg
Power cable 6awg


its just to know why you use the 4010 if you have an 8 cell pack instead of the 408
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 29 May 2022, 14:34

Micka7405 wrote:
fishinjunky wrote:200ah lifepo4 build for my bounder 300 chair. Replacing group 24 lead bricks. Everything is soldered and crimped.

8 x 200ah lifepo4 cells:
https://m.alibaba.com/product/160016167 ... om=Android

Charger: iCharger 4010 duo
https://www.progressiverc.com/products/ ... 0704167047

Flexible busbars:
( I strongly recommend using bus CABLES instead of these. I ONLY used these Flexible busbars because I didn’t have the head space for bus cables).
Insulated Flexible Busars
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrM3EFs

Cable sizes:
Charging cables 8awg
Balance cables 16awg
Power cable 6awg


its just to know why you use the 4010 if you have an 8 cell pack instead of the 408


there is icharger 406 (6cells ) , icharger 308 (8cells) , icharger 4010 (10cells)
you can use either the icharger 308 or the 4010 for 8cell packs i chose the 4010 because it has a max of 70amps in synchronous mode the 308 is 50amps max in synchronous mode. Me an BM agree these chargers shouldnt be ran at max amps for long periods. so i wanted the one with the most max amps
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Micka7405 » 29 May 2022, 15:28

and can you charge 70 amps with 110v in the USA?
I can't here if I'm not going to burn all the children of the town
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 29 May 2022, 19:49

70A at 24v is 1690 watts.

Not sure what your max current is, but thats 15A approx at the wall in the US.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Micka7405 » 29 May 2022, 20:24

into the USA for sure
into Mexico for sure ... it's not 15 amperes
maybe inside big city but not countryside
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Burgerman » 29 May 2022, 22:53

How do you run anything?

Many things are 3kw here. Everything from the over in your kitchen, the dryer, the washing machine, the hairdryer is 1800 watts, the thing I used to bend the pipes in my PC is 3000 watts, my fan heater is 3000 watts. My power supplies are 2200 and 3000 too And theres literally 18 sockets in this bedroom!

You should be able to get 16A at 110 volts at least. Thats 1760 watts. And have double that at 220V for heavy appliances. At least in the US.

Here and most of the world 240V is at every socket. And 3.1kw capable.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby slomobile » 30 May 2022, 02:08

US standard outlets have been 15A or more recently 20A at 120v. The power line transmission and distribution is 3 phase at several thousand volts 60Hz. Individual homes have transformers at the pole that deliver 2 phase 240V to the home on 3 wires. Black wire hot phase 1, Red wire hot phase 2, White wire Neutral(bonded to earth ground at a single point at entry to house). The home distribution panel interleaves the phases so any given breaker has another of the opposite phase next to it. Most circuits occupy just 1 slot using neutral and only one of the phases for 120v. Electric ranges, dryers, EV chargers, welders, which require higher current are given dedicated circuits using 2 adjacent spaces for 2 phases delivering 240v between phases and/or 120v between either phase and neutral.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby jefferso » 30 May 2022, 03:12

So does that single unit fit in the space where 2 Group 24 lead bricks used to be? I'd like to build something for my Permobil C500 and/or F5 if I get one, but the batteries fit in separate compartments rather than a single space together.

I measured the MK Gels I have and got about:
10.20" (259mm) length
6.80" (173mm) width
8.24" (209mm) height

On the C500 looks like there's some space on top of the batteries in their compartments but not a lot. If the height and width will work, looks like I could get 4 in and have a length of 212mm with 4 of the 174x53x207mm cells, plus a few mm for insulation between.

IMG_5242.jpeg
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby jefferso » 30 May 2022, 03:25

fishinjunky wrote:We really like the Anderson connectors they are a bit tight but mom can unplug them. I may have a few handle designs 3d printed to test an see if that makes it a little easier. But its fine if not.


Sometimes people doing my charging don't push the Anderson in all the way, but it had been working a long time before I realised they weren't pushing it all the way in. I guess if it's shoved in enough for the metal contacts to be pressed together it works. But I found some handles that help pulling them out, which helped encourage my helpers to plug them all the way in.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303728486330
or UK https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131863789736

They also had little rubber covers / caps for the end in case dust or water might be a problem.

s-l1600-25.jpg
$_61.JPG
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Micka7405 » 30 May 2022, 06:51

Burgerman wrote:How do you run anything?

Many things are 3kw here. Everything from the over in your kitchen, the dryer, the washing machine, the hairdryer is 1800 watts, the thing I used to bend the pipes in my PC is 3000 watts, my fan heater is 3000 watts. My power supplies are 2200 and 3000 too And theres literally 18 sockets in this bedroom!

You should be able to get 16A at 110 volts at least. Thats 1760 watts. And have double that at 220V for heavy appliances. At least in the US.

Here and most of the world 240V is at every socket. And 3.1kw capable.


How? Or what?
Mexico is one of the poorest countries in the world
ok we have wealth but that only benefits a minority of the wealthy in the government
the other wealth, that of drugs, also benefits a very, very rich minority. but has a fairly short life expectancy

the rest of the country, the people, live in a state of poverty that few here seem to know
washing machine, vacuum cleaner, large kitchen, large American fridge, large computer, all this concerns only the maximum 5% of the population

Mexico is one of the poorest countries and especially in the West one of the most dangerous countries

https://es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A9xico

https://www.humanium.org/en/mexico/


Pobreza
Artículo principal: Pobreza en México
En México, el 43,6 % del total de habitantes está en pobreza, de acuerdo con la Medición de Pobreza en México 2016, hecha por el Consejo Nacional de Evaluación de la Política de Desarrollo Social (Coneval) lo que es igual a 53 418 151 personas. Por otro lado, la situación de personas en pobreza extrema es equivalente al 7,6 % del total de habitantes. Según la misma organización, sólo el 22,6 % de la población mexicana no es ni pobre ni vulnerable.[263]
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Micka7405 » 30 May 2022, 06:54

Micka7405 wrote:and can you charge 70 amps with 110v in the USA?
I can't here if I'm not going to burn all the children of the town



i can't here if I'm not going to burn all the (children) WIRES of the town
wires not children
google translate mistake
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Micka7405 » 30 May 2022, 06:57

Burgerman wrote:How do you run anything?

Many things are 3kw here. Everything from the over in your kitchen, the dryer, the washing machine, the hairdryer is 1800 watts, the thing I used to bend the pipes in my PC is 3000 watts, my fan heater is 3000 watts. My power supplies are 2200 and 3000 too And theres literally 18 sockets in this bedroom!

You should be able to get 16A at 110 volts at least. Thats 1760 watts. And have double that at 220V for heavy appliances. At least in the US.

Here and most of the world 240V is at every socket. And 3.1kw capable.


the dryer, the washing machine, the hairdryer, the thing I used to bend the pipes in my PC is 3000 watts, my fan heater is 3000 watts, My power supplies are 2200 and 3000 too And theres literally 18 sockets in this bedroom!, Here and most of the world 240V is at every socket. And 3.1kw capable

¡ jajaja !

buenas noches
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby LROBBINS » 30 May 2022, 08:21

Do remember that to draw say 30 Amps at 36.4 V (the input voltage recommended for the PL8) you will draw a lot less at the 115V input to the power supply. If efficiency were 100'% it would be 30*(36.4/115) = 9.5 A. Efficiency is less than 100%, so figure 10 Amps at the wall outlet.

Of course, for 70A output it would be proportionately more, but 70A is really an excessive charging rate. At 30 A, a 90% discharged 200 AHr pack will take all of 6 hours to reach full charge, plus a little time for balancing the cells.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby shirley_hkg » 30 May 2022, 09:38


Waiting to see bulging cells too. :fencing
Prismatic cells are much less pressure tolerant than cylindrical ones .

1C charging is hypothetical in laboratory.. Reality , or Aliexpress , never comes close.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby jefferso » 30 May 2022, 12:07

jefferso wrote:F5 if I get one


Looks like the F5 has the batteries side by side vs. the C500 divided end to end configuration. I guess if I get one made for the C500 I should configure the cells in two Group 24 sized groups which can be rotated to fit so I can switch it over to an F5 when the time comes.

Video of F5 battery change:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVWFgXAdvrY

Screenshot from that video:

Permobil F5 battery configuration.jpg
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 30 May 2022, 13:31

shirley_hkg wrote:
Waiting to see bulging cells too. :fencing
Prismatic cells are much less pressure tolerant than cylindrical ones .

1C charging is hypothetical in laboratory.. Reality , or Aliexpress , never comes close.


You're right, I'm not charging with more than 45a to 50a. I just like that the iCharger 4010duo can do 70amps max. So running at 45 amps is only around 71% of its max potential which I like because it's less taxing on the charger versus the iCharger 308 that max òut at 50amps an running it at its max potential
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 30 May 2022, 13:34

jefferso wrote:
fishinjunky wrote:We really like the Anderson connectors they are a bit tight but mom can unplug them. I may have a few handle designs 3d printed to test an see if that makes it a little easier. But its fine if not.


Sometimes people doing my charging don't push the Anderson in all the way, but it had been working a long time before I realised they weren't pushing it all the way in. I guess if it's shoved in enough for the metal contacts to be pressed together it works. But I found some handles that help pulling them out, which helped encourage my helpers to plug them all the way in.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/303728486330
or UK https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131863789736

They also had little rubber covers / caps for the end in case dust or water might be a problem.

s-l1600-25.jpg
$_61.JPG


I have some of those I'm going to try :thumbup:
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 30 May 2022, 13:48

jefferso wrote:
jefferso wrote:F5 if I get one


Looks like the F5 has the batteries side by side vs. the C500 divided end to end configuration. I guess if I get one made for the C500 I should configure the cells in two Group 24 sized groups which can be rotated to fit so I can switch it over to an F5 when the time comes.

Video of F5 battery change:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVWFgXAdvrY

Screenshot from that video:

Permobil F5 battery configuration.jpg


It would be easy to do the f5. Just out of curiosity why get a permobil f5?
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby jefferso » 30 May 2022, 14:43

fishinjunky wrote:Just out of curiosity why get a permobil f5?


I've been using this Permobil C500 with standing for nearly 12 years so I'm used to it and F5 seems to be the closest thing. More detail in this old thread.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... 57#p174257

One thing I have some concern about is centre of gravity. Looks like the cells are "about 4.12kg" so 8 would be about 33kg vs about 47kg for the MK Gels. With the extra weight of the standing feature up top, I'm not sure whether losing 14kg down below will make a noticeable difference to stability.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Micka7405 » 30 May 2022, 15:04

jefferso wrote:
fishinjunky wrote:Just out of curiosity why get a permobil f5?

One thing I have some concern about is centre of gravity. Looks like the cells are "about 4.12kg" so 8 would be about 33kg vs about 47kg for the MK Gels. With the extra weight of the standing feature up top, I'm not sure whether losing 14kg down below will make a noticeable difference to stability.


yes of course 14kg at the bottom of the chair will make a big difference to the center of gravity
although it is good to carry 14kg less

that is why, and of course many others, that I mounted 10 cells in my x8 with which I do a lot of offroading (and even that)
off-road the center of gravity is very important
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 30 May 2022, 15:12

jefferso wrote:
fishinjunky wrote:Just out of curiosity why get a permobil f5?


I've been using this Permobil C500 with standing for nearly 12 years so I'm used to it and F5 seems to be the closest thing. More detail in this old thread.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... 57#p174257

One thing I have some concern about is centre of gravity. Looks like the cells are "about 4.12kg" so 8 would be about 33kg vs about 47kg for the MK Gels. With the extra weight of the standing feature up top, I'm not sure whether losing 14kg down below will make a noticeable difference to stability.


Oh ok I gotya.
I didn't think about stability. I'm not sure how you could test it to see before getting the cells...
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Micka7405 » 30 May 2022, 15:32

to test the stability it's simple
go in a steep slope, one side of the wheelchair (left or right) down and the other side up and ride slowly in the way where the slope in more steep
when you fall down you know about your center of gravity

it's a joke, but not 100% joke
but for my x8 with 4 motors insinde the wheels, with ten 310amps cells wich is around 54kg and with my 41kg, 100% sure my center of gravity is very low
even if sometime i tilt on one side but without any injury thanks to God
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby foghornleghorn » 30 May 2022, 19:14

jefferso wrote:One thing I have some concern about is centre of gravity. Looks like the cells are "about 4.12kg" so 8 would be about 33kg vs about 47kg for the MK Gels. With the extra weight of the standing feature up top, I'm not sure whether losing 14kg down below will make a noticeable difference to stability.

15mm thickness of roofing lead sheet in the bottom of the battery box will make up your lost weight and put it lower down for extra stability.
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby Micka7405 » 30 May 2022, 20:59

foghornleghorn wrote:
jefferso wrote:One thing I have some concern about is centre of gravity. Looks like the cells are "about 4.12kg" so 8 would be about 33kg vs about 47kg for the MK Gels. With the extra weight of the standing feature up top, I'm not sure whether losing 14kg down below will make a noticeable difference to stability.

15mm thickness of roofing lead sheet in the bottom of the battery box will make up your lost weight and put it lower down for extra stability.



one of the benefits of lifepo4 is weight gain

Isn't it ridiculous to add a weight that is useless except for weighing?
put an anti-puncture product on your tires, it won't weigh 14kg but it's very low and it's of some use...
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Re: 200ah lifepo4 build with pictures

Postby fishinjunky » 23 Jun 2022, 14:02

my 200ah pack in the bounder is running great no problems. The icharger is also working great no problems with either. I charge maybe once or twice a week. It has been a complete life changer im having a awesome summer the range an power is :dance :dance :thumbup:
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