Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jun 2022, 18:24

i didnt like it - was an OLD lady in it - seems to wimpy

Like all the Q chairs it all depends.
A Q500 can be 4mph, 2 pole, VR2 weedy controller, no seating options, etc. And so a super basic (cheap light) chair.
Or it can be 3x the price, with 8mph, 4 pole, 120A controller, Lift, Tilt, Recline, Power Centre Footplate, gyro, fancy armpads, headrest, lights, bigger wider tyres, and a CTRL-5 controller for the seating. And more.

So theres no such thing as "a Q500" as such. It depends drastically on options. The Q700s already have all the best options already applied, as well as front suspension.

Both the Q500R and Q700R have that terrible swinging rear beam suspension. Which needs a bolt through it to stop it doing that... :fencing Its a triumph of marketing over common sense and engineering. BECAUSE all rear drive chairs sold are so stupidly front heavy as stock before you fix them, that they need that swinging beam effort to try and keep the rear wheels in ground contact as you go over uneven ground, top of a ramp, etc. As the chair follows the front casters instead of the drive wheels. But once you fix that, by moving the seat back so it steers properly then that swinging rear axle is a liability. It was a "fix" that was invented to repair the damage a stupidly nose heavy RWD chair (their fault, swing away leg rests, too narrow front gap etc) caused. A fudge to try to cure another cockup. Only a chair designed by comittee could be that way. All easily fixed afterwards fortunately. And then all their marketing hype is seen to be bullshit.
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jun 2022, 18:40

So I still prefer a CORRECT SPEC Salsa R2 https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... s/salsa-r2

Over the Q500R https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/q500r

Or the Q700R https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... -sedeo-pro

Seems the Salsa R2 is still available. So sunrise has 3 high end rear drive powerchairs. 4 with the Magic mobility V4 Rear drive. Yes not in the USA. Thats a consequence of your over regulated messed up "free" system. Dont know what you do about that.

Our key products, marketed under the Quickie, Zippie, Breezy, Sterling, JAY, Coopers and Lomax proprietary brands, are sold through a network of homecare medical product dealers or distributors in over 130 countries. Sunrise Medical's headquarters are based in Malsch, Germany. With an additional North American headquarters in Fresno, California. The company employs 2,200 associates worldwide.
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 26 Jun 2022, 19:18

The liner's were for me mob scooter Expresso, not the powerchair. The rear tyre's on me mob scooter wear terribly.

I fitted the liner's today, with a bit of help. Trouble with them is that they naturally sort of sprung round in on themselves. I managed to push them inside the tyre but you need to partially inflate the tube to get the liner's to sit correctly. But of course with the tube in it's hard to see how the liner's are laying. After all they're supposed to lie along the centre line of the tyre, not creep around to lay along the side wall of tyre.

Anyhow bolted split rims together and inflated to correct pressure and put wheels back on, and scooter rode fine, no vibration which I was worried about. Hopefully centrifugal force will keep the liner lying along the centre line of tyre. But a 13 inch wheel spinning to give approx 9 mph doesn't look like it would produce much centrifugal force.

Anyhow I'll just have to see how it goes, they are quite thick along their centre line, probably about 8mm in metric.

Don't need any on front wheels as mob scooter will still ride okay with front puncture if you shift your bodyweight a bit, to opposite side of puncture.
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby expresso » 26 Jun 2022, 19:35

Scooterman wrote:The liner's were for me mob scooter Expresso, not the powerchair. The rear tyre's on me mob scooter wear terribly.

I fitted the liner's today, with a bit of help. Trouble with them is that they naturally sort of sprung round in on themselves. I managed to push them inside the tyre but you need to partially inflate the tube to get the liner's to sit correctly. But of course with the tube in it's hard to see how the liner's are laying. After all they're supposed to lie along the centre line of the tyre, not creep around to lay along the side wall of tyre.

Anyhow bolted split rims together and inflated to correct pressure and put wheels back on, and scooter rode fine, no vibration which I was worried about. Hopefully centrifugal force will keep the liner lying along the centre line of tyre. But a 13 inch wheel spinning to give approx 9 mph doesn't look like it would produce much centrifugal force.

Anyhow I'll just have to see how it goes, they are quite thick along their centre line, probably about 8mm in metric.

Don't need any on front wheels as mob scooter will still ride okay with front puncture if you shift your bodyweight a bit, to opposite side of puncture.



tire liners are fine for rear tires - its the front small tires that give issues - i though you were concerned about flats on the front tires - and wanted to add a liner there - i suggest not to on the front tires - rear are fine - i have some liners on my rear tires also - one one chair only - since tire wears fast and dosnt seem as strong as the others - i found liners for bikes - i cut it to size - feels the middle section nicely - dosnt do the sides -
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby expresso » 26 Jun 2022, 19:39

Burgerman wrote:So I still prefer a CORRECT SPEC Salsa R2 https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... s/salsa-r2

Over the Q500R https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/q500r

Or the Q700R https://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powere ... -sedeo-pro

Seems the Salsa R2 is still available. So sunrise has 3 high end rear drive powerchairs. 4 with the Magic mobility V4 Rear drive. Yes not in the USA. Thats a consequence of your over regulated messed up "free" system. Dont know what you do about that.

Our key products, marketed under the Quickie, Zippie, Breezy, Sterling, JAY, Coopers and Lomax proprietary brands, are sold through a network of homecare medical product dealers or distributors in over 130 countries. Sunrise Medical's headquarters are based in Malsch, Germany. With an additional North American headquarters in Fresno, California. The company employs 2,200 associates worldwide.



we dont have the salsa here - all we have on the site now - for RWD sunrise are - 500H and 200R - then the frontier models - which one is RWD - off road tires - which i would like if i ever got one of those - from looking - i am sure insurance wont pay for that model based on cost and larger rear tires - they have another model which is the same with thin tires - i bet insurance will cover that model over the off road model - why who knows - cost also - the off road has a larger base cost over the same chair with skinny tires -

its unclear what the difference between the two chairs are other than tires - i think its called C73 model - from Frontier
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 26 Jun 2022, 20:01

expresso wrote:tire liners are fine for rear tires - its the front small tires that give issues - i though you were concerned about flats on the front tires - and wanted to add a liner there - i suggest not to on the front tires - rear are fine - i have some liners on my rear tires also - one one chair only - since tire wears fast and dosnt seem as strong as the others - i found liners for bikes - i cut it to size - feels the middle section nicely - dosnt do the sides -

Hi Expresso, yes! you are right the two punctures I recently got were thorns in the 280/250-4 front tyres on power chair (Salsa R2). But I bought new tyres for them. With the old 280/250-4 tyres I would only get a puncture in really hot weather when the rubber was soft. In ordinary British weather they were fine but I decided to change them for something a chunkier tread. These:
IMG_8088.jpeg

I have the same but larger tyres on the rear of the salsa and they're really hardwearing and I've not got a puncture yet, touch wood.
Although I was complaining about punctures on the salsa, I'm not overly concerned about punctures in a powerchiar cos I still get on a bus or train to get home. A puncture on the rear of my big mob scooter is more tricky. It's too big to get on bus or train or most WAV taxis. And I'd have to abandon it at the roadside and phone for an Uber or mini-cab to get home and get a jack and some tools and a spare tube. That's why I thought the 4.10/3.50-6 liner's might help?
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 26 Jun 2022, 20:11

I wonder if I could make something like this as fast jack? But I’d need to get me angles right so jack would stay up when handle is flat on ground. :problem:
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 26 Jun 2022, 20:13

Like this
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby expresso » 26 Jun 2022, 21:15

https://www.flexelmobility.com/catalogu ... trap-tyre/


https://www.monsterscooterparts.com/cat ... rsions-40/


these are the two i have - both work fine - never had issues with them - they are softer - i had a tube go bad on one of them once - the slim clogged it - i stopped using slim on the front tires since -
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby expresso » 26 Jun 2022, 21:27

https://www.amazon.com/Bike-Tire-Protec ... 78&sr=8-10

i also used this on the rear tires on one chair - they fit just right the width and i just cut it to length - very easy to install - and you can reuse them when tires wears - just remove and reinstall again on new tire - add the tube - add some sealant - best you can do

now for minor things of course - it cant hurt to have the liner - these dont do the sides - the main area worth it for me -


https://www.motorcycletire.com/product/HN-K753508.html

these i use on my other two chairs - you really dont have to worry with these - very strong tire - first set took over 4 years before i changed them - - they last for ever it seems - i have one set mounted as a spare if ever needed - bike shop installed it for me - i drop it off - pick it up when ready - and install in my home the whole tire rim etc,

no tire liner needed - i use sealant on them -
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 27 Jun 2022, 14:04

expresso wrote:https://www.flexelmobility.com/catalogue/280-250-x-4-black-durotrap-tyre/


https://www.monsterscooterparts.com/cat ... rsions-40/


these are the two i have - both work fine - never had issues with them - they are softer - i had a tube go bad on one of them once - the slim clogged it - i stopped using slim on the front tires since -

Hi Expresso. Funnily enough the two tyres you link to are the two brands I came across online. I chose the Durotrap but have not fitted them yet. How would you compare them to the Razor's? Are they about the same? I've not fitted the Durotrap yet so could return them and buy a pair of the Razor tyres instead.
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 27 Jun 2022, 14:08

expresso wrote:these i use on my other two chairs - you really dont have to worry with these - very strong tire - first set took over 4 years before i changed them - - they last for ever it seems - i have one set mounted as a spare if ever needed - bike shop installed it for me - i drop it off - pick it up when ready - and install in my home the whole tire rim etc,

no tire liner needed - i use sealant on them -

I tried a pair of these once but they wouldn't fit in the 9 inch forks I've got so I ended up selling them.
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 27 Jun 2022, 14:21

expresso wrote:https://www.amazon.com/Bike-Tire-Protectors-Mr-Tuffy/dp/B00U0FJUQA/ref=sr_1_10?crid=8BP1VF7M0PYU&keywords=bike+tire+liners&qid=1656274850&sprefix=bike+tire+liners%2Caps%2C78&sr=8-10

i also used this on the rear tires on one chair - they fit just right the width and i just cut it to length - very easy to install - and you can reuse them when tires wears - just remove and reinstall again on new tire - add the tube - add some sealant - best you can do

now for minor things of course - it cant hurt to have the liner - these dont do the sides - the main area worth it for me -


They sell them on Amazon UK. They seem quite expensive for what they are, but that's probably due to import taxes, etc. But I've saved them to my Amazon Wishlist incase I want to try them in the future :thumbup:
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 27 Jun 2022, 14:37

The 24 inch tyre I used to use on my manual wheelchair were Schwalbe Marathon Plus. They have a kevlar strip underneath the tread. Although the tyres are quite heavy, that's why I ditched them and changed to a pair of slick folding tyres which are really thin but light, which is important on manual WC
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby expresso » 27 Jun 2022, 16:35

Scooterman wrote:
expresso wrote:https://www.flexelmobility.com/catalogue/280-250-x-4-black-durotrap-tyre/


https://www.monsterscooterparts.com/cat ... rsions-40/


these are the two i have - both work fine - never had issues with them - they are softer - i had a tube go bad on one of them once - the slim clogged it - i stopped using slim on the front tires since -

Hi Expresso. Funnily enough the two tyres you link to are the two brands I came across online. I chose the Durotrap but have not fitted them yet. How would you compare them to the Razor's? Are they about the same? I've not fitted the Durotrap yet so could return them and buy a pair of the Razor tyres instead.


i dont know which is the Razor - but the two i linked work fine for me - one is more rounded - the other one kenda is not as round on the edges - i have both of them in use - two chairs - one with each set - maybe the kenda has a little bit more meat on the tire - the other one is fine also
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 27 Jun 2022, 18:08

expresso wrote:
i dont know which is the Razor - but the two i linked work fine for me - one is more rounded - the other one kenda is not as round on the edges - i have both of them in use - two chairs - one with each set - maybe the kenda has a little bit more meat on the tire - the other one is fine also

This one is the Razor, it's for the Razor E300 stand up electric scooter. https://www.monsterscooterparts.com/cat ... rsions-40/

Did you notice a difference in handling between the rounded Razor profile and the squarer later profile of the Durotrap? I was wondering whether with a rounded profile front wheel the chair would more naturally want to run in straight line. AKA the motors have to work less hard to keep it inline. Hence saving battery power. I'm sure BM might have something to say on this. I think that's the reason they recommend grooved front wheel treads. Like these
615-2.jpg


But then I might be being a bit anal. I'm just thinking back to the days when I used a lightweight rigid frame manual wheelchair, and having the chair set up so it naturally wanted to run in a straight line with minimal effort made a world of difference in arm fatigue when wheeling.
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby expresso » 27 Jun 2022, 18:42

try the rounded one first - i dont like that that grey one you posted - those are originals on sunrise here - i am sure they may be fine working wise - but the color grey - dont like
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 27 Jun 2022, 19:34

expresso wrote:try the rounded one first - i dont like that that grey one you posted - those are originals on sunrise here - i am sure they may be fine working wise - but the color grey - dont like
:thumbup:
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby martin007 » 27 Jun 2022, 19:53

Scooterman wrote:
expresso wrote:
i dont know which is the Razor - but the two i linked work fine for me - one is more rounded - the other one kenda is not as round on the edges - i have both of them in use - two chairs - one with each set - maybe the kenda has a little bit more meat on the tire - the other one is fine also

This one is the Razor, it's for the Razor E300 stand up electric scooter. https://www.monsterscooterparts.com/cat ... rsions-40/

Did you notice a difference in handling between the rounded Razor profile and the squarer later profile of the Durotrap? I was wondering whether with a rounded profile front wheel the chair would more naturally want to run in straight line. AKA the motors have to work less hard to keep it inline. Hence saving battery power. I'm sure BM might have something to say on this. I think that's the reason they recommend grooved front wheel treads. Like these
615-2.jpg


But then I might be being a bit anal. I'm just thinking back to the days when I used a lightweight rigid frame manual wheelchair, and having the chair set up so it naturally wanted to run in a straight line with minimal effort made a world of difference in arm fatigue when wheeling.



I'll give you a tip.
Look for a industrial purpose black cover; they are better and cheaper.
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 01 Jul 2022, 13:07

martin007 wrote:I'll give you a tip.
Look for a industrial purpose black cover; they are better and cheaper.

Have you got a link? :ebay
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 01 Jul 2022, 13:19

Cheng Shin Brochure!!!

A handy reference guide. I'm not saying they're good tyres or anything... It's just that they're a really common brand of mob device tyres in the UK and probably elsewhere in the world.

And the code numbers might come in handy when ordering online from mob equip sellers. I don't know if your experience is the same as mine, but often when ordering tyres the tread pattern bears no resemblance to the online listing photo. I always try and order a tyre with tread pattern that looks more suitable for tarmac, but often end up with an egg box like block pattern which is more suited to off-road.

https://portalimages.blob.core.windows. ... re.pdf.pdf
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 01 Jul 2022, 13:24

While shopping for mob tyres or anything else mob related I notice some retailers have ridiculous pricing and rip off mobility impaired/disabled people something rotten, bloody parasites. Lots of older disabled and more naive disabled people must get ripped off something rotten, especially with 'used' mob parts parts on eBay. Their prices are bloody outrageous. It's probably cheaper in the long run to buy a 'used' powerchair/mob scooter you can cannibalise for parts.

Grumble over :oops:
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby shirley_hkg » 01 Jul 2022, 15:56


As good as KENDA
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby martin007 » 01 Jul 2022, 21:19

Scooterman wrote:
martin007 wrote:I'll give you a tip.
Look for a industrial purpose black cover; they are better and cheaper.

Have you got a link? :ebay



What measures?
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 03 Jul 2022, 10:45

shirley_hkg wrote:
As good as KENDA

They look good Shirley, nice and meaty (thick rubber, tough).

Aw! it's a shame I've already bought some tyres :(

But I will save the two images to my mobility folder for next time. :thumbup:
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 03 Jul 2022, 10:46

martin007 wrote:
What measures?

How long is a piece of string?
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Jay_x » 03 Jul 2022, 14:16

expresso wrote:

https://www.motorcycletire.com/product/HN-K753508.html


no tire liner needed - i use sealant on them -


do those fit on a bounder?
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby expresso » 03 Jul 2022, 16:48

No - those tires are not on my bounder - they are on my other chairs 646 quickie

bounder has stock tires - i added the tire liners only and sealant - and dont run the tire down too low - thats when the risk is much higher

just change them before then - reuse the tire liner start fresh
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Jay_x » 03 Jul 2022, 17:05

ok thanks
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Re: Punctures!!! Grrrrrrrr

Postby Scooterman » 09 Jul 2022, 11:52

expresso wrote:Dont do the front caster tires with liners - i tried at first and gave me wheel shake like crazy - not worth it -

for the rear tires - yes you can do those - if you use those 8 inch slick tires - you wont have any more flats - trust me - i ran mines for many months not realizing there were flat - you wont know

its a hard rubber tire - works good - but use tubes for the 8 inch not the 9 inch tire tubes that are common 250/280 - 4 - i think - they are too big

when i installed them - i pinched them for sure from day one - never knew - chair ran fine - it got my attention because how it was wearing - then i took it apart to change them - found the tube both with holes from installation -

i installed a new set with the correct size tube - - sitting on shelf till i need them - but they are very very hard to remove - take apart -

so much that i may not get them again after i use the one set i have already on the caster - i may change my mind when time comes but it was very hard -

i almost broke my caster trying to remove it - stock sunrise - plastic caster - i may try a vice to squeeze the rubber next time -

The liners I fitted to the rear of my large mob scooter have increased the battery consumption. Cos I only use the mob scooter outdoors a mile-o-meter gives a good approximate battery consumption gauge. In the summer when scooter is used regularly the battery consumption is usually around 2Ah/mile. I'm just recharging it at the moment but I think the Ah/mile will have gone up.

Cos the tyres now have more 'rolling mass' I assume it takes more motor effort to start them rotating from standstill. Once at speed then I guess the power consumption is the same. BM will know about this, he knows about physics and tyres.

FAO BM: is tyre mass something motorcycle racers worry about?
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