Aviva rx

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Aviva rx

Postby hotwheels_75 » 10 Jun 2022, 01:35

Has anyone else tested or own the Aviva RX chairs? I saw a couple posts saying the linx controller software was pretty awful and not common? Is that the main negative point? Still hunting for a good RWD chair in Canada.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 10 Jun 2022, 01:37

Not personally but the linx thing would prevent me looking any further. Your mileage max vary. Personally reliable OEM programming access, easy control system parts availability is probably the most important thing on my essentials list when looking at any chair.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby fishinjunky » 10 Jun 2022, 14:25

I have linx electronics on my bounder. I would not get anything with linx electronics as the only option. I have managed to get mine programmed somewhat properly BUT it's very difficult to decipher an attempt to understand and oem programming could disappear at anytime. R-net is much better developed an proven reliability.

But I see you delema finding a rwd in Canada. Your options are:
rwd bounder with r-net,
Frontier rwd with r-net
waiting for the quickie rwd to be available in Canada
Importing a rwd from UK,
Or a hybrid quickie or hybrid amy systems with r-net

If it were me my first pick would be a bounder rwd second pick would be a Frontier rwd
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 10 Jun 2022, 14:49

It is a problem in the US and canada.

Best to await the Q500R from sunrise. And then get the RIGHT spec.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby hotwheels_75 » 10 Jun 2022, 19:01

That's kind of what I figured. I've already delayed getting a new chair for at least three years. Guarantee the minute I choose one something better Will become available. I've looked at the bounders but didn't care for how the ass end sticks out so far. They look very nose heavy. Anyone know how adjustable they are? The specs look like they have a fairly high floor to Seat height. 19” might be too much. Have to double check what my requirements are so I can clear my van ceiling.
I tested the Q500H, and thought rude quality was awful. Dunno if that’s fixable with Center of gravity adjustment, air filled tires and tweaks to the adjustable shocks. Have my doubts based in the suspension design.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 10 Jun 2022, 19:29

Because the H is really mid drive with the main wheels 2 inches further back.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Jay_x » 10 Jun 2022, 21:14

Burgerman wrote:It is a problem in the US and canada.

Best to await the Q500R from sunrise. And then get the RIGHT spec.


when is that coming out?
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Jay_x » 10 Jun 2022, 21:15

Pretty sure someone on this forum has an Aviva RX, can't recall who though

EDIT: User nld3 said he was going to demo one of these
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 11 Jun 2022, 01:02

I think expresso said summer? Whatever that means.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Fusiongoat » 11 Jun 2022, 19:05

hotwheels_75 wrote:That's kind of what I figured. I've already delayed getting a new chair for at least three years. Guarantee the minute I choose one something better Will become available. I've looked at the bounders but didn't care for how the ass end sticks out so far. They look very nose heavy. Anyone know how adjustable they are? The specs look like they have a fairly high floor to Seat height. 19” might be too much. Have to double check what my requirements are so I can clear my van ceiling.
I tested the Q500H, and thought rude quality was awful. Dunno if that’s fixable with Center of gravity adjustment, air filled tires and tweaks to the adjustable shocks. Have my doubts based in the suspension design.


For the most part Bounders are not adjustable. You cannot adjust the position of the back canes, the seat depth, or the width. Also you can lower the seat to floor height a little by moving the bolts on the caster forks, but the seating is still way too high. If you get an elevator you cannot lower the seating below 20". You might as well try the Amy systems R3. It is hybrid but it is basically the same as the old Quickie "RWD" chairs. Also if you are paying cash for any of this Amy Systems' prices are better than other manufacturers. Finally, don't consider a Bounder if you are ever planning to leave your house. In my opinion they are 100% junk.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Jay_x » 11 Jun 2022, 23:50

Weird you would call the Bounder junk. Its a solid chair, I have rode one for years and it was pretty reliable. Its true about the high positino of the seat though, if you get an elevator the seat sits real high. Right now the Bounder and Aviva RX are the only true RWD chairs available in the US. That Amy chair looks okay but what is the purpose of making a RWD chair and still sticking some wheels in the back? Looks like it would be PITA to maneuver.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 11 Jun 2022, 23:53

Its not a rear drive chair. Its a mid wheel one with the drive wheels moved back around 2 inches. So its neither mid or rear. Thats why its called hybrid and needs the rear casters.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Fusiongoat » 12 Jun 2022, 01:44

Burgerman wrote:Its not a rear drive chair. Its a mid wheel one with the drive wheels moved back around 2 inches. So its neither mid or rear. Thats why its called hybrid and needs the rear casters.


I didn't say it was a real wheel drive chair, I said it was hybrid, but I don't think what you are saying is accurate either. I think it used to be an RWD chair and they added the rear casters because it was too tippy for U.S. regulations. Anyway, there aren't any options for RWD chairs in North America, anyway, so he might as well try it. At least it has R-net and high quality motors. Otherwise there is the Frontier V4 but if you have to pay cash it's way too expensive.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 12 Jun 2022, 01:51

No. The rear drive one had a longer chassis, different suspension setup. Similar the sunrise Q500 and Q700 chairs. They too make a rear, mid, front drive as well as the hybrid. Its an in between. But its meant to have rear caster on the deck even if lightly. Thats why casters rather than raised anti tips. Its far from usable without, you will just fall out. Unless you move the seat forwards. Then the wheelbase is too short. Much of the discomfort comes from the pitching due to short wheelbase.

If I were you I would be patient and wait and test the Q500R. Or the Q700R which has front suspension too.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Fusiongoat » 12 Jun 2022, 01:59

Jay_x wrote:Weird you would call the Bounder junk. Its a solid chair, I have rode one for years and it was pretty reliable. Its true about the high positino of the seat though, if you get an elevator the seat sits real high. Right now the Bounder and Aviva RX are the only true RWD chairs available in the US. That Amy chair looks okay but what is the purpose of making a RWD chair and still sticking some wheels in the back? Looks like it would be PITA to maneuver.


Sure, it's solid. So is a Caterpillar. Neither one is a great everyday vehicle. Anyway, this isn't based on bias, I performed real-world tests with the new versions of these chairs and I have an OEM-level file with the motor compensation settings, etc. They have very weak motors comparable to 2 pole motors even with low speed. They also claim that their motors are high torque which is completely bogus and basically unsupported by reality. Also the tests I performed show that the motors pull way more amps to perform the same task as motors with 20% higher gearing. That's a very bad sign. They could simply buy high quality motors like almost every other manufacturer but they choose to be "unique" and pretend that nothing has changed since 1984. Finally, my Frontier is also very solid but achieved that solidity with much less weight and way better performance. I would say that the Bounders have better traction than other chairs.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 12 Jun 2022, 02:04

I might get an avira 4 pole, then swap in 120A R-net since I have 3 complete sets sat on the shelf... It would add only around 200 to the cost at the price I paid for them. But then I can. And I wouldnt find it hard to do, program etc. But that might confuse the warranty work in the future. Esp if you deny all knowledge and say it came that way...
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Jay_x » 12 Jun 2022, 02:25

Fusiongoat - you tested the Bounder and the Amy? What about the Aviva have you tested that?

yes Bounder is stuck in like 1990 or something, its odd. They just refuse to update things.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby rover220 » 12 Jun 2022, 07:26

The aviva is so front heavy it's unreal.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 12 Jun 2022, 08:52

EVERY rear drive chair is though. Every single last one. All need some modification to single centre footrest and seat moved back to change them from unsteerable oil tanker with all the mass sat on the front casters, into a shorter light steering nimble chair. The question really is how easy is that to achieve on each chair. So I generally study these things before buying.

In my case its relatively simple on tha salsa.
Less easy to acieve and impossible to get it as rear biased as I would prefer with the Q500/700 chairs as the front caster arms are too close together. Hence the smaller 8 inch front caster tyres, etc. But its just about doable.
The ancient F55 was easy.

As stock all of them are to me unsteerable and lose traction on the rear tyres and far too long.

On the Salsa/Q700R chairs, to maintain stability with the seat lift that also means setting the seat lift at a forward angle. Lower at the front. And then adding spacers to the actual seat so that it has 6 to 10 degrees of "dump" regardless. That way the lift moves you forwards 40mm as it rises without the seat being tipped forwards too. And so maintains stability.
A similar aproach with the invacare brushless stor 4 explore also works. But its tight, and needs a little lateral thinking/configuration.

I have not looked at invacare chairs lately so cant comment on what is involved to achieve this. Or on their brushed motor quality or reliability. They used to be noisy. Not that this means they are faulty. But they sounded like it!
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby fishinjunky » 12 Jun 2022, 15:15

Fusiongoat wrote:
hotwheels_75 wrote:That's kind of what I figured. I've already delayed getting a new chair for at least three years. Guarantee the minute I choose one something better Will become available. I've looked at the bounders but didn't care for how the ass end sticks out so far. They look very nose heavy. Anyone know how adjustable they are? The specs look like they have a fairly high floor to Seat height. 19” might be too much. Have to double check what my requirements are so I can clear my van ceiling.
I tested the Q500H, and thought rude quality was awful. Dunno if that’s fixable with Center of gravity adjustment, air filled tires and tweaks to the adjustable shocks. Have my doubts based in the suspension design.


For the most part Bounders are not adjustable. You cannot adjust the position of the back canes, the seat depth, or the width. Also you can lower the seat to floor height a little by moving the bolts on the caster forks, but the seating is still way too high. If you get an elevator you cannot lower the seating below 20". You might as well try the Amy systems R3. It is hybrid but it is basically the same as the old Quickie "RWD" chairs. Also if you are paying cash for any of this Amy Systems' prices are better than other manufacturers. Finally, don't consider a Bounder if you are ever planning to leave your house. In my opinion they are 100% junk.


This is not true I have a bounder an LOVE mine it does GREAT offroad you wouldn't believe the places I can go. It's high quality built solid. I would like to see a hybrid go the places I go :lol: never happen

What model bounder do you have?
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby fishinjunky » 12 Jun 2022, 15:20

Jay_x wrote:Fusiongoat - you tested the Bounder and the Amy? What about the Aviva have you tested that?

yes Bounder is stuck in like 1990 or something, its odd. They just refuse to update things.


Just my opinion but I would say they are sticking with what has been working good for them over the years. I like the look, chains, an the battery location easy access. Although it may look nose heavy its not. But the just me everyone has their own personal preferences
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Fusiongoat » 12 Jun 2022, 19:54

Jay_x wrote:Fusiongoat - you tested the Bounder and the Amy? What about the Aviva have you tested that?

yes Bounder is stuck in like 1990 or something, its odd. They just refuse to update things.


I owned a Bounder -- if you look you can see many posts about it. I absolutely never claimed to have tested an Amy chair.
I just claimed to think they were good. There's a lot of information on here about the motors used on the Amy chairs and
the consensus seems to be that they are excellent. Also, we know what the motor compensation settings are for those motors --
before I had a Bounder no one knew what the motor compensation settings were for those chairs because they only recently
started using R-net. Anyway, I sent information about the Bounder and my tests of it to BM and others at the time so everything
I am saying is easily verified. I guess you just have to trust me about the readings on the controller. But why would anyone have
a personal vendetta against a bunch of dudes in Idaho? I guess actually the company is owned by a woman.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 13 Jun 2022, 01:50

Handbags at dawn? :D

He mentions motor compensation because the higher it is the less torque you get and the less well motor load compensation actuslly works.
And lower is always better. And more efficient as long as the chairs wiring is also low impedance.

Low means 30 to 45mOhms. Above this its less efficient and lower torque. And normally cheaper, as in 2 pole motors on conventional chairs. Number of poles tends to be a way to determine this, but it isnt always the case. A 2 pole CAN be low impedance. And a 4 or greater pole can be high impedance. Most 2 poles tend to be around 90 or 110. Permobils 2 pole which is all they use now seems to be 70mOhms. Most 4 poles, 30 to 45 that I have seen.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 13 Jun 2022, 21:36

I must say it does not appear to be nose heavy with centre footplate etc.


youtu.be/qyu-89x5NFc
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby fishinjunky » 14 Jun 2022, 13:43

Burgerman wrote:I must say it does not appear to be nose heavy with centre footplate etc.


youtu.be/qyu-89x5NFc


That Aviva actually looks pretty decent an after some modifications an some wider offroad air filled tires ( just my personal preference of tires) an a swap to r-net. It may be a really nice daily driver. I like the design of its center foot plate. An BM has shown if you look for good deals you can get a full r-net system for a reasonable price. After my experience with linx I could probably manage to get it programmed somewhat properly BUT I've spent a year testing what everything does an still 90% of it is indecipherable. An that oem acess could disappear at anytime.

Does it have a 4pole 6.5mph motors option?
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Jay_x » 14 Jun 2022, 16:25

fishinjunky wrote:
Burgerman wrote:I must say it does not appear to be nose heavy with centre footplate etc.



Does it have a 4pole 6.5mph motors option?


Yes it does

https://rehab.invacare.com/getattachmen ... r-form.pdf
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 14 Jun 2022, 16:40

I think that the seat still needs moving back. But dont know how easy that is. :hammer
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby fishinjunky » 14 Jun 2022, 18:42

Burgerman wrote:I think that the seat still needs moving back. But dont know how easy that is. :hammer


Bm,
What do you think it would take to fit it with wider tires say 14x6? Custom rims?
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Jay_x » 14 Jun 2022, 20:06

I bet you could take those rear casters off the Amy hybrid chair and just put the anti tippers like the Aviva has on and it would be just fine. Maybe.
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Re: Aviva rx

Postby Burgerman » 14 Jun 2022, 20:26

I think the amy chair has the wrong type of rear suspension and anti tipper arangement as its meant to lean on the casters all the time for stability. As such its drive wheel is too far forwards. And that makes for a bumpy ride due to short wheelbase. Its not so much the up/down (large amplitude changes) thing that causes discomfort on a powerchair on the street but the short wheelbase and you sitting higher up, that means it pitches back and forth. Thats what feels bad.

Canging whees and tyres? Thats always the same. Needs a custom adaptation made. But I suggest it will end up much too wide with 6 inch tyres.

Compromise. Fit the ones used on my salsa, 120/70 - 8 with around 14.7 overall diameter. And no theres no plug and play easy way to do this. But ordering the right precut blanks, on the web, and a drill is all I did.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... 00#p122818
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