Tire off Rim

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Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 02:36

had a first experince today with my Tire that somehow was dead flat off the rim -

i went to use my bounder - i checked the tires before i went out - i added some air - since its been sitting for some time - seems fine

i went out - i did about 6 blocks - and i felt something - i wasnt able to keep it straight - i first though it was the road - was on a angle - then i heard a noise - i stopped leaned over the left side- to my surprise - tire was dead off the rim - seal was broken off the rim - i wasnt far - good thing -rode it back home

i switched chairs - i filled it up again and went out in my other chair - then i got stuck in a major thunderstorm - i barely made under an over past - i was about 120 blocks from home now - i just had to wait it out - about 35 mins - heavy rain floods winds - when it past - i decided to ride it back home for the day

when i got home - to my surprise - the tire that was off the rim - seemed just fine - it didnt go flat - i didnt check it any more- i will double check it and refill it again in the coming days - i dont use this chair as much now - but not a good feeling- i was close so it worked out fine -

what could have caused this ? low PSI - maybe a bump - angle turning and broke the tire seal on the rim ?

or before i went out - my girl added the air- but had a hard time putting the valve cap back on - i know - dont ask me why - could maybe the valve stem was stuck a bit open and let air out slowly and then finally went dead ? i have sealant in there - but i dont think this was a Flat on the tire -

something caused the air to come out - i dont feel it was a flat from outdoors etc, - tire looks fine at a glance - and its holding Air that i refilled it before i went out again in my other chair - i was expecting to find it flat when i got home - but its not

so what gives ? being the bounder is a hard ride even with Air - i am thinking of going to foam tires now in black and call it a day - but i still puzzled as to what caused it -

any ideas ?
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby Burgerman » 17 Jul 2022, 07:17

Are these tubed or tubeless tyres?
Used with a tube?
Or used without?
Tubeless rim or just wheelchair normal rims?

If tubeless then maybe old hard unused tyre leaking where it mounts to rim.

If tube used then maybe valve core leaking. That can happen on tubeless too. When you next add air yu should spit on finger. Wipe it over the valve and it should not "bubble" and should just sit there. Gross but do that every time as valve cores leak. New ones are super cheap...
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 12:14

Using tubes. I will double check valve stem this week with another worker. Remove air and fill again. Checked last nigth and tire was hard not flat
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby Burgerman » 17 Jul 2022, 12:19

It all depends...
When removing the tyre inflator the valve may seal fine on wed... Or it may not on tuesdays or saturdays. It may be that the rubber seal has deteriorated or gone. Or dirty.

The spit test shows you clearly and all tyre fitters do this! Horrible yes. Soapy water also works. You need a film on the end of the valve to watch for a few secs.

Do yourself a favour!
Buy https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lanjue-Repair- ... 06&sr=8-12
I have a big bag of these cores scrounged from the tyre fitters half a mile away. I fit new ones if in any doubt.
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 13:07

I have extra stems. will replace and add more psi this time. 30 psi will try. Damage is done now I worry with this one. If more psi works. Then ride is stiff. In that case foam tires may be just the same without the worry at least this one chair. Seems easier for tire to come off. Than the others.
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 13:30

it must have been low PSI for this chair - and when i made a sharp right hand turn - not long after i realized it - so that might have broke the rim seal

looking at it now - its still fine holding air -like nothing happened - i just hope i didnt damage the tire side wall much since i rode it home - about 6 blocks

i guess i have to use at least 30 PSI with this tire - to hold it strong - in that case foam tire may be just the same and less worry - since they have it in black looks wont change

on the other chairs with the larger tire OD and stronger tire - would be very very hard to knock it off the rim the way this one happened -

i usually use 30 PSI there also but its a much softer comfortable ride compared to the bounder -

i will use it again stay close by to get comfortable again and not worry - will try to get foam tire installed at the same time - with insurance - etc, if i start it now - i may get it in the winter time anyway -

oh well so much for that - and i used to take 40 mile rides with this chair during the first two years of use - that worries me now - i was fine before not worried - mostly worried if tire is worn and they are new - i added a tire liner also just to be safer -

and its the PSI that got me - :lol:
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 13:34

i watched the video to see when i started to feel funny - and its about after i made the sharp right turn - tire was the left side off the rim

i realized i couldnt keep the chair straight - i first said the road since it was angled to the left also - then i heard some noise - i pulled over and looked and to my surprise -

you could hear me on the video - saying holy shit - :lol:

was a bad day but made it safely - and could have been worse - also lost 5 dollars when i got my phone from the side - must have fell off - i did manage to play the lotto at least -
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby Burgerman » 17 Jul 2022, 13:43

it must have been low PSI for this chair - and when i made a sharp right hand turn - not long after i realized it - so that might have broke the rim seal


There is no rim seal with a tube. Turning cant do that. No air should be lost unless you damade the tube. Unless you mean the low pressure is a problem. Then the pressure would still be whatever you set it to. And even at 5psi the tyre would not fall off the rim...
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 13:45

forget about having my girls start spitting on the valve stem - - it seems fine when removing the hose for adding air - it had pressure -

they dont remove it fast enough either - so i loose some - more i think about it - thats all it was - that sharp turn knocked it off - with lower PSI than i should have on that chair tire combo at least

heavy chair - needs more PSI - i always tried to keep it Min PSI but enough - for better ride - but i have to keep it at least 30 PSI if not 35 PSI -

will be hard as a rock - or same as foam - but wont have it come off this way - if i knew before hand - how this chair works with tire changes and rims etc,

and if i knew they had a black foam tire - i would have taken it from day one - i didnt know the tire change on this chair is not the same as the others

and my girls cant do it - my other chairs - its easy - tire and rim are mounted together and then replaced like a car - i have spare set already to go for the other chairs

this chair - tire rim cant be mounted together off the chair - its more of a guy job - tech in my case now - i will put in start the process for the foam tires

i learned something - no harm was done either - bad day but lucky at the same time - could have been worse cheers
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 14:01

Burgerman wrote:it must have been low PSI for this chair - and when i made a sharp right hand turn - not long after i realized it - so that might have broke the rim seal


There is no rim seal with a tube. Turning cant do that. No air should be lost unless you damade the tube. Unless you mean the low pressure is a problem. Then the pressure would still be whatever you set it to. And even at 5psi the tyre would not fall off the rim...



i cant tell you then - what it was - i can only think of that - low PSI - knocked it off on the sharp right turn - i though the same thing - if its not broken - it should have stayed put -

but i filled it up at home before i went back out - different chair - its still hard as rock right now the tire - nothing was done to it -

if the tube was damaged or valve etc, shouldnt it have been flat now ?

i dont like not knowing what caused it - because it can happen again then - this chair is heavy - and low PSI - i could see the tire coming off the rim on a turn leaning on it - still dosnt explain where the Air went - even low PSI - it should have been there right ?

its fine now - i can only replace the valve stem and refill it again - or just remove all the air and refill it again - not replacing nothing and have to ride around a bit - close by - till i feel its OK -

but if i have to worry about this now with this chair - isnt worth it - go to foam filled - and call it a day - just wont happen that fast with insurance -

unless i can find them cheap myself online - they want $160 a tire -

410-350 - 6 is the size knobby tire - if i can find them for $50 each maybe i just get them myself - i dont seem to find them - all tube style i find

or just wait for insurance - its a process with this chair because its my back up chair - and this is the reason i kept it as a back up - not my primary chair - and another reason i like to have my older chair ready to go as a real back up chair -

when you cant do things yourself and have to wait for tech or insurance - takes a while -

being that tire seems fine now - would you just fill it up with Air and use it as if nothing never happened ?

i cant do any work on the chair myself or my girls - so my options are leave it alone - or change the stem and try again - - while starting the process for the foam tires -

i was looking forward to using the chair that day - just once a week type of chair now - i guess i can wait in that case -

i would still like to find black knobby foam filled tires in that size - if you happen to know where - post a link -

the factory shows them as high density foam filled - 12.75 x 4 size - knobby 4 ply tire with a 440 lb load rating -

i find mostly 2 ply with lower load rating and Air also - i have spare sets here - but Air for tubes -
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby Burgerman » 17 Jul 2022, 14:13

Use logic. Thers only 4 ways that the tyre can be flat.

1. It lost air through the tube over time. Thats normal. But your girl topped it up right? So thats not it.

2. It lost air through puncture... Faster! But now you say it doesent deflate. So thats not it either.

3. It lost air through the valve core leaking. Can happen fast or slowly. Dirt for e.g. POSSIBLE.

4. It wasnt adequately filled to start with.. Your girls failed and THOUGHT it had enough air. But were reading the pressure in the pumps pipework, and it was not fully pushed onto the tube/valve.

There are no other options. No need to fit terrible solids.
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby steves1977uk » 17 Jul 2022, 14:55

Foam filled tyres are horrible things, you get caster shake at fast speeds. Don't swap them expresso, stick with air and tube sealant. :thumbup:

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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby shirley_hkg » 17 Jul 2022, 15:43

expresso wrote:or before i went out - my girl added the air- but had a hard time putting the valve cap back on - could maybe the valve stem was stuck a bit open and let air out slowly
When removing your pump connector , you have to do it quick and clean , so the valve shuts nice .

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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 16:20

it was most likely a combo of all those things - this girl is not very good at much with chairs tires etc, she was having a hard time adding air - then removing the hose - etc, and screwing the cap back on - so the air that was added may have been removed during the process

its still hard solid so it must have been that - its not that i want foam tires on there - but at the same time now it worries me some with that chair only - if i have to keep the PSI at 30 or 35 - thats very hard - if so then foam will be just as hard and no worries - i would try only the rear foam - i can leave the front casters alone

so far its the original set of tires in the front - never had an issue with them and still have meat - strange - its the rears that i wear out if used alot - i dont use it often this chair now - just a weekend here and there - but i have to feel confident again to use it - i give another try - remove the stem drain the air - put a new one on that one tire - refill it -

or just remove the air and refill it again - i can test the stem pushing on it to see it lets air out and let it go to see if it stops etc, but i cant change it - tire or tube etc, i need a tech for that - my girls cant work on this chair that way - i can do front tires if i needed - not rears - if the ride is going to be harder after i use 30psi or 35 psi - then going to foam wont make any difference - will be just as hard - either way and at least wont have to worry about it again

i can leave the fronts alone -

this time i will add more PSI so when they remove the hose - if it looses some it still be good enough - i wont have the same girl do this - tomorrow night i can try with that girl - and or Tuesday night girl is better with this stuff than any of them -
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby Burgerman » 17 Jul 2022, 16:55

Thi is why I use push on ones not screw on ones. One pull, its off. No air loss.
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 17:07

it was the push on kind - they just dont understand - when i say do it fast - still lets air out

not fast enough -

this one girl shes not good with this - and its only air - forget about other things - she can clean it - etc, move it - get it ready for charging - none of my girls are really great with this - but a few i can do it with much better -

still cant find the same tire foam filled - the others i do find - i can see the cost is high also - around $100 - mines from bounder direct is $160 each -

i get them for $30 each at most for tubes - they are still tube less tires - but can use tubes also - my other chair is same way - tubeless tire - very strong - i feel good using that chair -
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby Burgerman » 17 Jul 2022, 17:26

What is the world coming to when people, all people, cannot be taught to use a simple tyre pump?

I am at a loss. Its an essential skill to be your carer. You cant do it. I frequently cant do it either. Cant reach. So my carers *must* be able to do this. Chairs are essential to us. Along with all kinds of other equipment like hoists, or electric beds etc. Its all part of their job batteries inc swapping, chargers etc, charging and using hoists and more. All 3 of mine are taught to do this stuff - like tyres, half a dozen times on a loose wheel. Until they get it. Have a natural understanding of whats going on. Frankly they should already get it! You shouldnt need to be explaining this stuff every time. Everyone has had bicicles, motor cars, etc. They must have some basic level of competency to survive in this world. What is the world coming to? You are not asking them to do any rocket science. Its rediculous.

I asked one of mine to add 100 CC of tyre sealer to a Q chair in my kitchen yesterday. Then inflate the fronts to 50psi, rears to 35psi. Which he did without me watching. Correctly. I have shown him how years before and he just gets it.

However, who exactly you employ and why is your business. Everything is a compromise.
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 17:34

i agree - its basic and not hard even if you never done it - but its how they are - all of them not only my girls - i have at least 2 girls i can do certain things with better - you have to use the ones you can for a job - not all of them can help me with changing front casters - tires etc, i know which one i would use for certain things and ones i wont even bother

this goes for many other tasks around the house etc, -

this is a limit to what i can get done with my girls - i managed pretty good so far but i cant push it either - i managed to show one or two how to adjust my chains - clean them and wax them after each use - - move my chair - get it ready for charging etc, plug it in etc but when it comes to doing work with tools etc,

brings me down to only 2 of them i can work with - and really only 1 that knows better than the others - and still limited to what i can get done

then come excuses - thats when things start to change -
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby steves1977uk » 17 Jul 2022, 17:41

Trouble is BM most people in the newer generation have very little interest/understanding how things work. czy Melissa (my PA) listens to me and follow my instructions then things get done properly! Any Carer ought to understand the basics in life (e.g. how to pump a tyre up.) as this is essential knowledge for the disabled.

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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 17:50

thats in our eyes not theres - and 99% of users all use flat free foam tires - i may be the only one on Air and tubes

then has to keep up with them - have tools to use - etc, i have a jack - tools to do what is needed for basic things and more - but no one uses tools - girls here are not mechanical inclined - very few if any are - if you find one that is - thats rare - or maybe she wants to be a man - and has that ability to be involved in hardware store stuff - etc,

why do you think no one can do DIY lithiums etc, they have no help in doing it - i got lucky and got it done with my girls - and its easier to do now then when i used headways - the hardest part is making the charge cable - and then the lifting of the pack to install etc, but to build it - its easy -

now change a tire or tube - that becomes a harder task - go figure - i need time to get back on the chair - after refilling it and checking it again - and using it short distances first - but still damage is done - i will always worry about it now -
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby steves1977uk » 17 Jul 2022, 17:56

You need a female mechanic expresso. :mrgreen: :thumbup:

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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby expresso » 17 Jul 2022, 18:00

your lucky enough to find anyone to even work this kind of job -

it went down hill since covid hit - thats it - cant even find workers any more - let alone one who can hold a tool - and use it - may use it on me instead :lol:

things may change soon - they are getting more pay in a few months and then each year till it hits 22 a hour - plus benefits and Overtime and PTO - personal time off etc, then you may find more willing to work

but its been dead a long time - hard to find workers -
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Re: Tire off Rim

Postby Burgerman » 17 Jul 2022, 18:33

When younger (37 till around 50) I used to just offer young attractive barmaids a job. They were already doing late hours, for min wage and expected to clear up afterwards for free... So offering them a little more, one on one, no stress was attractive to them. Some had no interest in things like tyres. But they were easy on the eye so got the job anyway. But when older and less capable myself, then being able to do such things became more important.

So right now I have 2 women that are 42, 50, and a 60 year old man. (Who would make someone a lovely mother!) Significantly they all drive. All own own house and so do their own decorating, maintainance, and so on - they understand how important their property is to them, and so also mine.
All can pump up a damned tyre. They dont look as pretty but tough! They are all capable of helping me fix or work on chairs, batteries, tyres, hoists, beds, and cushions. Even more significantly they are all like me a bit OCD with a natural will to maintain and clean and touch up paints, clean and polish everything inc washing machines and fridges etc. I do not need to ask them. Or show them. You need to choose carefully and not be afraid to hire and fire until you have good people.
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