Permobil F3

[Marcelo]

Circuit at home friends.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Urekt2Loudg
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/n6kVgymJWXI
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1XZQ5TzcVOc
Sorry for not being helpful ok.

[Burgerman]

Maybe a language thing. What are you showing here? And maybe why? I dont get it

[Marcelo]

Maybe a language thing. What are you showing here? And maybe why? I dont get it

I don't even know how to say friend.

[Burgerman]

You just did!

[biscuit]

Was the first video trying to show the rear wheels trying to lose control on the turn at speed??
Making a wild guess here.

[steves1977uk]

That seems slow compared to my daily chair.

Steve

[Burgerman]

I think F3 are 6mph? Not sure as I dont have much to do with them if I can possibly help it!

[Burgerman]

https://www.innovacareconcepts.com/en/b ... -m5-f3-f5/

Heres a quick description.

The F3 is 10kph or 6mph. The F5 is 12kph, or 7.5mph. But it has less torque (obviously) and so cannot carry as much weight. with a suggested max of 130kg instead of 150kg. If you ask me that should be taken with a pinch of salt as the 12kph (7.5mph) ones seem to struggle with less than 130kg... Watched a guy trying to get up a very steep illegal ramp in my local bar (hotel) a while back and it wouldnt do it. It just stalled out. Even with a helper pushing. So that 130KG limit is rather optimistic I think.

I was probably 6 stone heavier, and my old worn out BM2 reverses up that ramp very easily. (6mph, 4 pole motors).

The F3 is shorter, and cannot climb as big obstacles, and better suited to indoor primarily. But has better toque. Hence the 150 KG limit. Thats means better control, esp if you are less than that weight. The F5 better suited to outdoor use as long as you are not heavy. Better suspension(longer)/wheelbase length/speed on the flat.

If I had to have one of these (god forbid) I would take the F3 over the F5 because theres not much to choose between them and its shorter, better indoors, and has greater torque. And the extra speed on the F5 just makes that horrid FWD edgy steering thing worse. I dont like either though!

[steves1977uk]

Which pub is this BM? Might visit one day with Melissa and see if my chair can climb that ramp, and have a with you.

Steve

[Burgerman]

It is, or was millfeilds hotel. But they took out the ramp, and I cant get in any longer. And the place is for sale. The lockdown did them no good.

https://www.millfieldshotel.co.uk/

Offers... https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news ... et-4804440

[Marcelo]

https://www.innovacareconcepts.com/en/blog/permobil-comparisons-m3-m5-f3-f5/

Heres a quick description.

The F3 is 10kph or 6mph. The F5 is 12kph, or 7.5mph. But it has less torque (obviously) and so cannot carry as much weight. with a suggested max of 130kg instead of 150kg. If you ask me that should be taken with a pinch of salt as the 12kph (7.5mph) ones seem to struggle with less than 130kg... Watched a guy trying to get up a very steep illegal ramp in my local bar (hotel) a while back and it wouldnt do it. It just stalled out. Even with a helper pushing. So that 130KG limit is rather optimistic I think.

I was probably 6 stone heavier, and my old worn out BM2 reverses up that ramp very easily. (6mph, 4 pole motors).

The F3 is shorter, and cannot climb as big obstacles, and better suited to indoor primarily. But has better toque. Hence the 150 KG limit. Thats means better control, esp if you are less than that weight. The F5 better suited to outdoor use as long as you are not heavy. Better suspension(longer)/wheelbase length/speed on the flat. Unfortunately mine was programmed for only 5miles.

If I had to have one of these (god forbid) I would take the F3 over the F5 because theres not much to choose between them and its shorter, better indoors, and has greater torque. And the extra speed on the F5 just makes that horrid FWD edgy steering thing worse. I dont like either though!

[Rollin Positive]

Got to say so much shit talking going on here...

Had the F3 and had no problems making it up ultra steep inclines in New York/LA/Chicago etc from loading docks to make shift ramps from mom and pop stores trying to accommodate ADA laws!

It climbed anything with no helper

Same for the F5...but as we all know its the reason Permobil users chat off line because they get they are not welcome here because of all the shit talking...

Funny Steve how you have so much to say with zero experience one of those that found a platform but nothing really to contribute based on experience

Perfect example of reading numbers on a PDF, web page etc and being a Monday morning quarterback

[Burgerman]

Its certainly not shit. I watched it with my own eyeballs.
And this is NOT a permobil thing. Its a physics thing. When a motor or control system is "branded" permobil, it behaves acording to the very same laws of physics as EVERY other bit of equipment. Brands, and marketing do not change anything.

When you have a fixed amount of POWER such as a 24V @ 120A (power module) or say a cyclist, then thats all the power you got.
If on that powerchair I were to change its gearing (or motor winding) to change its max speed, or on the cycle the chairs sprocket diameter then two things ALWAYS happen. If you change it say, +100% so that it goes double the top speed, then the TORQUE reduces by half. Thats why you cannot set off in top gear in a car. Or a bicycle. And when you make a powerchair faster the exact same laws of physics apply. You run out of "power" (torque).

It climbed anything with no helper

Whats an anything. What was the total chairs weight with user. What angle was he anything? What batteries were you using? What impedance were they? With your stock delayed action programming how could you possibly tell how far from max torque or was it AT max torque at the time? Can you not understand that testimonial non scientific evidence is nonsense??

So the REASON that permobil have a lower limit on the max user weight on the F5 compared to the F3 is because the F5 is faster. And by definition therefore has less avaiable torque. And no this does not apply to permobil. But EVERY chair. The factors that determine this are simple! Max speed at 24V. Max Amps available. 120in this case. Given approx similar efficiency values etween motors. And the available torque to climb is then the same and directly comparable across all chairs. Motor impedance must be low enough to draw max Amps from the controller obviously this is always the case with all the pole ones I ever saw. And may NOT be on some 2 poles. This is basic 101 physics that you plainly dont understand.

So nobody needs to "try it" or to "test" this out because its already tested to death and well known simple physics. I can predict the amount of torque very very accurately just from the parameters. That we KNOW!!! The fact that you claim yours is OK, is not relevant here. Why? Because we dont know what you are comparing it to, what you are measuring your torque or control with, and because your programming wouldnt allow you to detect these differences anyway. And you have never used any chair that actually steers and drives properly and so not in any position to tell. And you are extremely light. So you may find it "ok" on certain ramps in certain conditions. For e.g torque is greater with better batteries. Measurably so. Testimonial evidence is simply nonsense and unscientific, at best. Completely useless at worst. I can MEASURE and demonstrate exactly what I am talking about on any 4, 6, 8 mph chairs very easily. Testably, repeatably, measurably.

As for the "anti permobil" stuff. I feel I should point out all the stupid stuff, the things that prevent anything being fixed by us, prevent them ever being properly programmed, and prevent anyone fixing thair own chairs or even getting parts without being tied to their so called techs. Because that stuff MATTERS!