Invacare GB Motors Locked

[expresso]

I have a friend with an older invacare with GB motors - in the past they used to lock up on her every now and then - the last time it happened - it was suggested the hammer trick - hitting the tire with an hammer - it actually worked then -

now it happened again - hammer trick didnt work -

any other ideas or suggestions she can try to get it going ?

thanks

[Burgerman]

Hammer? I think that they will have an electronic issue. Its going to need a man with a multimeter and some time to get to the bottom of it.
Could be many things. It will need some proper fault finding logic. Any error codes?

What was she doing at the time? Traveling in straight lines ir turning in place or loading the motors?
Mine used to stop working suddenly. Because of a total design issue.

[expresso]

Bm many years ago - you suggested using a hammer to bang the side wall of the tire - and it worked then - these chairs were always an issue with the GB motors

out of no where they lock up for no reason - its an indoor chair only for years now - worked fine up till today - same thing locks up the wheel dosnt turn or move etc, she tried the hammer trick and it didnt work this time

too bad - other than this - chair works fine - has tilt seat lift etc, -- shes about to junk it soon - wonder if it can somehow work with Reg. motors instead of the GB - mounting holes may be different and hub etc

[expresso]

Error she got was

GB CNTRL FLT

[Burgerman]

If brake is stuck, or if theres a bad connection, in a connector or internally, hitting it may make it work. Like an old TV, hitting it may make it work. It doesent fix the problem. Which may or may not recur or get worse. Hitting it is a emergency attempt to get it somewhere safe and you/her home. At which point the thing should have been diagnosed and the fault found before it was used again.

The fault may be in the control system modules, loom, even joystick. Or battery loom/breaker/fuse/bus cable and must be found. It should be easy to find now as it wont go till you swap the offending part! Then examine that part to find an actual fault.

Anyway, I hear it was cold in new york?

[expresso]

thanks - i try to help her - i cant do much but can advise her to do as you suggested -

the hammer worked back then - its been many years now since and just happened again - chair old not covered and the last time tech removed the tire - something else was wrong - couldnt put it back for some reason - but managed to get it on - i think a stripped screw or screws to hold the tire

taking it off would be difficult and once off - forget about putting it back - so leaves just checking the connections really - chair wont be used outdoors - hasnt been for many years - worse case she gets stuck in the house- then swap chairs -

just a shame that it will end up in the garbage i am pretty sure - other functions work - tilt - seat lift etc, just dosnt move - i advised to try reprogram it also if she has the original SD card for her chair

nothing to loose there

yes its cold here - but cant complain so far for this time of year - we havnt had any major storms - yet - last year i recall it was a good winter and then in March we got hit with a few storms -

but its winter - its expected - in 2 months - start getting ready to take some short trips if weather permits - here and there -

getting my chairs in shape and ready for summer - redoing my first chair - replaced the old Headways with 200ah cells - will do after i install my new 230ah pack in my new chair -

i have no use for the headways now -

[Burgerman]

Thats what happens with good lithiums, that are charged correctly they dont die! You end up swapping them out because bigger better stuff is available. In spring I intend doing the same with BM1, BM3, as well as the two lead chairs, the Salsa and the Q700R so will be doing 4 of them... That will be an ordeal! But must find someplace to get quality cells. Esp if ordering for 4 chairs in one go to get them cheaper. Should be possible to get 235Ah in each. All 4 packs the same.

Its cold here, been 10C or 10 above freeing mostly which isnt bad for a while. But cold spell ahead...

[expresso]

i guess chair is going in the trash the next few days -

those GB motors were nothing but problems - when it was covered - i think at least half dozen motors replaced -

yep - i will try to find someone who wants the old headways - still have about 85ah Cap. left - not good for me but someone many who dont leave the house - would be fine -

i may have to trash them also - havnt decided yet - or take it apart make two 45ah add ons or do nothing till i find someone who can or wants them

CALB 230ah cells i am using in my new chair - all tested 235ah - best ones yet - QR code welded studs of course - cant say yet how they perform in use - but not worried - i cant imagine they be bad in any way - time will tell -

unless the bounder pack goes down the drain - i wont be needing to do any more packs for a few decades -

when i get a chance i will try fixing the broken one with the JB weld for fun to see if it actually works - wont be using it either way - just curious

[shirley_hkg]

Controller fault means she need a new PM.

Banging the motor won't help.

[expresso]

thanks - i let her know if shes willing to buy one to try -

does it have a serial number on those from invacare ? to try to search ebay

i asked her to remove it and show me - i can search for one and see the costs - last effort to try - if not too expensive -

[expresso]

would this be the PM info needed to search for one ?

[shirley_hkg]

Yes.

Just look for MK6 TT GB will do, but it is hard to find a used one .

Furthermore , need reprogramming, after swap a PM.

May not be cheap if not covered by insurance .

[Burgerman]

Thats a power module. Its an older one than we get in the EU/UK dating many years ago.
And those are like rocking horse excrement. Because they fail...

[expresso]

thanks - i may have found one on ebay about $200 shows same model numbers

i think she has the SD card to reprogram it - stick it in the Joystick and reinstall her original settings i would think is all

or is there more to it ? i never played around with invacare chairs - later tonight - i will go see her and she can remove the PM first - i want to see if it matches the ebay pic

she may not even want to replace it - its a gamble even with a used one from ebay -

the tilt works - seat lift works - it turns on - just dosnt move

its not covered anymore - its an older chair - it may not be worth it - even at $200 whos to know - it may work after - and for how long then -

that chair has been nothing but problems - always the motors - when it works - its great- but never know when it just stops - shes been stuck in so many places outside - dentist office - over the years - had to leave the chair in the office for a few days -

i was always worried for her - now the sunrise chairs - no problem - just not great indoors either - i feel the same with mines - i only like and use my old P222se indoors only - feels the best for me -

what can i check for her later with a volt meter - ?

[rover220]

I can supply a module. You'll need a dx hhp to calibrate afterwards.

[Burgerman]

Can you? I thought all those ones in the US were pre DX2 etc. But not sure. Does it even have a handheld programmer? I calibrated mine with the laptop. I suspect her motor issue is the same as mine was. Defective by design and just shuts down due to overload. And works later when cooled.

[expresso]

I can supply a module. You'll need a dx hhp to calibrate afterwards.

hi - thanks for reaching out - i dont have anything programmers or any tools for a invacare - either does she - all she has is the original SD card with her settings on it -


would that be all thats needed if she buys another module ? or its more involved - ?

[expresso]

Can you? I thought all those ones in the US were pre DX2 etc. But not sure. Does it even have a handheld programmer? I calibrated mine with the laptop. I suspect her motor issue is the same as mine was. Defective by design and just shuts down due to overload. And works later when cooled.

let me understand this now - lets say she buys an ebay module etc, or from rover lets say - whats needed to make this work - ? i believed all thats needed is install and then reinstall the settings with the SD card that you stick in the JS ?

is that correct ?

[Burgerman]

Yes bu you then need to lift the tyres clear of the ground. And run the automatic calibration routine. Takes about a minute. I did that on a more modern system, with my laptop. Pretty simple to do as it has a built in HHP that can do this. No idea how thats done on an old antiquated controller. I didnt think that SD card/brushless thing ever aw light of day here. I know the power modules are not the same. And so a bit unsure if rovers one will help.

MORE IMPORTANTLY I suspect that theres NOTHING wrong as such. Its bad by design. The reason is complex, and slow indoor stuff is what causes it. And it just cuts out. Eventually when its cooled a long while later it starts working again. No errors, just drive motors dont work. The more you ty the less likely it is to go. Untill you leave it as dead then it works when you try again. So no amount of swapping parts will cure the issue. And I know what it is. Although I know you will ignore this and carry on anyway...

[expresso]

i agree - and i dont think she will keep it - i will go there in a few - just to take a look but nothing i can do really - she already has it set for pickup to be recycled in a few days if its not working by then - its good bye baby

it isnt worth it - because the next unit if another does work -will crap out again anyway - not worth it - sunrise Rnet - never had issues with water either - i was in a storm - no where to hide i just had to ride it - on my P222se chair years ago when i used it outdoors - i have it on video - i was drenched

but it never stopped and was fine -

i am sure the invacares new ones with the brush motors are fine - it was just those GB motors - she was always afraid to be out if its drizzle rain or water on the floor - etc, would affect them - i am going to take a look but dont expect it to work -

[Burgerman]

Right now, R-Net is the only game in town. Its ultra flexible and plug and play. Supremely reliable. By far the best programming system and the best full set of system parts of any manufacturer. As log as we dont start adding permobil ICS systems or similar to it!

Because of this, and because they keep tryingto make it harder to get access to real programming, which I consider absolutely essential, then I bought 3 complete R-Net plug and play, 120A and full seating, and CJSM2 joysticks, a bunch of cables and other parts (gyro, iom, LED joystick, attendant joystick, programming dongle, bus cable splitter, seating modules and actuator and battery cables. To complement the 2 chairs I have that already use all that!

I am future proof for when they find a way to lock us out.

[expresso]

chair is being trashed - too much involved and not worth it - cant remove the fault error on the JS - cant get to the motor connectors on each side - they look like our charge cable 25 pin connectors - cant get to them unless removing the wheel or a bunch of other stuff - wheel cant be removed or it never get back on

it was stripped a while back and they got it back on but forget removing it -

good bye invacare - she loves the quickie with rnet

[Burgerman]

Then its beyond help. Those brushless motors dont work anyway. No way to actually fix it. Even a brand new chair comes with the problem. They no longer do brushless at all. The more modern brushless chairs now all use brushed 4 pole.

[expresso]

she can most likely start a new chair process in a year - so can i - but with no real good rwd chairs to choose from

shes not doing it either am i - i have no interest in the current chair line up - i will keep my current 646 chairs - and bounder going as long as i can - the 646 chairs are some of the best that we can get here - and no longer - they stopped making them - and didnt replace it with anything as good -

[rover220]

The module needs to be calibrated to the motors if it is replaced. Not the same as writing the settings.

[expresso]

thanks for that info - Rover - i had no idea - its goin in the trash - someone will pick it up to recycle it - not worth the trouble and cost

cant remove the wheel to even get to the connectors - this chair is good for someone who wants to play around and has spare parts already etc, or convert it to reg motors etc,

like a project chair - for me her - its useless now taking up space only - i would have done the same thing - trash it - i think its 11 years old - and maybe half dozen motors replaced when it was in service covered -

they got feed up and just replaced the whole chair with a new one - was cheaper than repairing it every other month or so

thanks for all the input suggestions

[Burgerman]

I keep trying to tell people. The motors they replaced are all fine. Its a design issue. It cannot be fixed.

[ex-Gooserider]

I might be interested if it has all the seating stuff on it? Not so much for the motors and controller...

FWIW, the only real structural difference in the H-frame Invacare chairs between regular and GB motors is the swingarm.... Obviously the motors and electronics are different as well, but it would be possible to swap them, and I happen to have a set of the regular motor swingarms in my parts collection...

I'm not horribly far from NYC, so could potentially drive down to get it, although the idea of driving into NYC makes me nervous, and we would have to work out the logistics of getting the chair into my van...

ex-Gooserider