I have a problem

[martin007]

This afternoon my powerchair stopped working.
A few days ago I tuned the brushes (the wear) and I started to notice something strange.
The point is that in the blink of an eye nothing works.

I have checked the voltage from the joystick and it is OK.
So the batteries are fine.

I have three things left: motors, connections and joystick.
With a multimeter can I test if the motors are ok?

[Burgerman]

Not enough info.

1. What does THIS actually mean?
A few days ago I tuned the brushes (the wear) and I started to notice something strange.

2. Dos it turn on?
3. Are there any lights or error messages?
4. What system is this?

If no lights does it have a trip, fuse, or anything?

Both motors cannot fail simultaniously. So if it was a motor you would need at LEAST a common factor between them. So fuses? Trips? Did you put everything back as it was originally???

Does it have a freewheel lever?

[martin007]

Does it have a freewheel lever?

Yes and it works correctly.

If no lights does it have a trip, fuse, or anything?

It doesn't have fuses.
It has a thermal in each battery box.
The terms are reset by pressing in with one finger.
The thermals today have not jumped.

What system is this?

Pilot.

Are there any lights or error messages?

Error messages.

does THIS actually mean?

It means when irregular and rounded wear occurs in the contact area of the brushes with the rotor.

I polish (6 months) the surface with a file and everything works better.

[Burgerman]

Pilot or pilot plus?

What is the error message?

You should not file or touch brushes at all especially once fitted and betted in. The brushes ae supposed to wear in and take a curve the same shape as the commutator. No or rather very little wear should happen at all once bedded in. I mean even years of use should be fine.

[martin007]

Pilot; the powerchair has a 23 years old.

What is the error message?

Indicates a disconnection...
...or something similar.

How can a joystic be damaged?

[woodygb]

I suspect that you have caused a bad connection at one of the brushes.
If the brush is not seated correctly the control pod will show a disconnected motor error.

You could check for continuity between the two opposing brushes of each motor.

[woodygb]

Flashing Diagnosis and Solution

Number of Lights

1 The batteries need charging or there is a bad connection to the batteries.
Check the connections to the batteries. If the connections are good, try charging the batteries.

2 The left motor has a bad connection. Check the left motor connection.

3 The left motor has a short circuit to another connection.

4 The right motor has a bad connection. Check right motor connection.

5 The right motor has a short circuit to another connection.

6 The power chair is being inhibited by the off-board battery charger.
Disconnect the off-board battery charger.

7 A joystick fault is indicated. Make sure that the joystick is in the
neutral (center) position before turning on the controller.

8 A controller system fault is indicated. Make sure that all connections
are secure and the batteries are fully charged.

9 The parking brakes have a bad connection. Check the parking
brake and motor connections. Make sure the controller connections are secure.

10 There is high battery voltage in the system. Measure the battery
voltage. If it exceeds 30VDC, replace the charger.

qr_pilot_boi.zip

(551.04 KiB) Downloaded 24 times

[martin007]

OK.
Thanks.

I have a spare engine to take advantage of some component.

I hope that the joystick is not damaged and that there is a solution...
How can a joystic be damaged?
Tomorrow plus.

Thanks.

[woodygb]

How many flashing lights?

[martin007]

Blinking lights...

luces.PNG (214.63 KiB) Viewed 604 times

[woodygb]

4 lights.

4 /
The right motor has a bad connection. Check right motor connection.

So ...have a look at what YOU have done when playing with the brushes.... they might have been shortened to much to reach the commutator...or one might be stuck in its housing etc.

[woodygb]

How are your bushes held in with a screw top?

[martin007]

I have already checked the brushes; they are fine.

[woodygb]

The error displayed on the pod indicates a bad connection to or in the right motor .

The error occurred a short time after you took out the motor brushes , filed them square and refitted them.

This timeline suggests that the error is possibly caused by something you did.

Can you swap the motor wires from left hand side to right hand side ?

If yes ..do so.

If you pod now shows 2 lights you have a MOTOR problem , if you still get 4 lights you probably have a wiring fault.

[martin007]

Do I connect the right motor to the wiring of the left?
Do I leave the left motor disconnected?

[woodygb]

Do I connect the right motor to the wiring of the left?

YES

AND connect the LEFT motor to the wiring of the RIGHT.

[martin007]

Now.


1- I push the power button.
Heard in right engine brake.
Blinking lights...

Video -> https://imgur.com/lfoBu3J

2- I push the power button.
Heard in right engine brake.
The joystick turns off.


3- I push the power button.
Nothing is heard.

luces.PNG (214.63 KiB) Viewed 582 times

4- I push the power button.
Nothing is heard.

luces.PNG (214.63 KiB) Viewed 582 times

* If I leave the joystick off for 30 seconds, assumption 1 occurs.

[woodygb]

7 lights = joystick deflected at start up...
Brake will click if the motor is commanded to move.

4 lights = bad connection to motor.

I really cannot help more from here.

[Burgerman]

Use your multimeter.

Test the motors and cables for impedance. Or measure as resistance. Do the same with brake.

What does each read? They should be the same or close.

If one is very high, then you have a bad connetion somewhere. Test cable. Test motor alone. Maybe a brush not seated correctly not touching commutator. Measure armature. Measure every point till you see where the problem is.

[martin007]

Use your multimeter.

Test the motors and cables for impedance. Or measure as resistance. Do the same with brake.

I have removed the engine brake.
The chair only has a brake on the right motor.

How do I measure the resistance of the wiring?

Would it be possible to get 24v out of the battery box and test the motors?
It has to be without moving the (heavy) boxes with the batteries.


Could the joystick be damaged?
What damages the joystick?

[Burgerman]

I have removed the engine brake.
The chair only has a brake on the right motor.

It MUST be connected to the system or you will get an error.

How do I measure the resistance of the wiring?
Unplug from power module, stick probes into motor wires... Should read really low resistance. Well below an Ohm.
With the brake connections, should read 15 ohms or higher but not be open circuit. The brake has a microswitch when operated that should be set to "drive".

Would it be possible to get 24v out of the battery box and test the motors?
It has to be without moving the (heavy) boxes with the batteries.

Yes but you dont want to do that. Partly because theres no need, but partly because you must power the brake too At the same time. And they will "jump" as they are connected to 24V and put hundreds of amps through the wires and brushes. Because the power module does this gently and limits the Amps to a maximum of 50 or 70 on your chair. If you must test a motor do it for an instant only and use 12V.

Could the joystick be damaged?
What damages the joystick?

Anything is possible. I doubt it. Its likely got to do with the brushes and connections because thats wht you were just playing with. Your multimeter will tell you EXACTLY where the problem is used logically.

[martin007]

I have removed the engine brake.
The chair only has a brake on the right motor.

It MUST be connected to the system or you will get an error.

The other one has been running for months without brake and it doesn't give an error...

[Burgerman]

The other what? Chair? It should.

Unless both are wired in parallel. Refit the brake or at LEAST connect it and your chair should work.

[martin007]

The left motor has been running for months without a brake.

[Burgerman]

Yea. It shouldnt. No idea why you dont also get the error with that one.

Plug it in, test... BOTH in fact. All brakes should be connected or you WILL get those flashing lights! Make sure brake are in drive mode.

[martin007]

In the end the fault seems to be in a bad cable.
I'm going to sleep more peacefully tonight.
Hope the powerchair sleeps well too...

[Burgerman]

You mean now you plugged the brake in it works?

[martin007]

No; that's the left engine brake.

The fault was in a right engine brake cable.

[Burgerman]

One of those must be connected to the brake. Normally both must be connected unless the brake is in parallel. If you disconnect both, then you get exactly the same effect/result as a cable that is broken, open circuit. It sees no resistance, and assumes a brake missing or a cable is disconnected or the brake has burned out. It needs to see a resistance of around 15 to a few hundred Ohms or you get the error you saw. No brake? Then open circuit, resistance higher than a few hundred ohms, so error. Brake must be connected.