PL8 ordered!

[Burgerman]

Shirley is one of us, lives in HK.

[snaker]

Another PL8 just landed in VN

The firmware version was 3.33, I successfully upgraded to the latest 3.36.

It looks new and works Ok.

Compared to my current PL8, it sounds better. Charging with my current PL8, the cell volts are not balanced. I thought the cells aged. But charging with the new Shirley's PL8 cell volts are very balanced. So the cells have not aged, my current PL8 aged

Another difference is that the BT works with my current PL8 but does not work with the new PL8. The BT signal is not stable. Maybe the new PL8 uses different electronics and causes more electrical noise.

[Burgerman]

Thats strange. I added 3 BT internal modules to my PL8s. But all performed the same.
When I wired the first one it wasnt stable until I connected it externally to the 3 pin connector. Still with the module on the inside. All have been working great ever since.

I ordered 3 more BT modules for the remaining non BT 2 PL8s and another as a spare from WoodyGB today.

Cant remember which way around it is but you shouldnt connect the pos or neg (which?) to the PL8 system from memory. Will have to dig out my notes.

I used these internally (tiny) and connected to the input for power by soldering to the board.
I used the pos, and this powered the BT board. Then the red and the signal wire (not the ground) connected to the rear plug. From memory. When ground is connected there was weak signal and it lost connection when charging at high currents.

[shirley_hkg]

Compared to my current PL8, it sounds better. Charging with my current PL8, the cell volts are not balanced. I thought the cells aged. But charging with the new Shirley's PL8 cell volts are very balanced. So the cells have not aged, my current PL8 aged .

LiFePO4 has very flat discharge platform , as BM said you can't tell SOC by its voltage,

It is difficult to notice PL8 developed a slight inaccuracies , especially when talking about just a few mV.

A halfway discharged LiFe should have all cell volts the same. I noticed this property. I test all my PL8 to ensue they are not aged.

I encountered about half a dozen imperfect units so far , though they still be good to use.

[Burgerman]

I encountered about half a dozen imperfect units so far , though they still be good to use.

Shirley. I asked this queston by PM and in at least 5 different threads. HOW are you measuring the PL8 read voltage?
Because you CANNOT see the voltage it actually reads unless you also enable the 4 digit decimal places. If you dont, then it squeezes all the voltages together, and averages them closer to make pretty graphs. And to disguise any bad calibration that will not affect the user.

So can you confirm that you do this below. If not then all the voltages you are reading are WRONG!!! 4 decimal places not only increases accuracy it also removes the false "squashed together" data. You MUST do this. If not the figures you see are nonsense!

[Burgerman]

halfway discharged LiFe should have all cell volts the same.

Only if:
a) all cells are the same exact TEMPERATURE and this is quite critical. Makes a couple of MV difference across a pack typically.

And..

b) all metal to metal connections are soldered and nothing is oxydised. Because an aluminium or zinc or brass/copper connection is in itself a vattery and if damp or oxidised somewhere then it can make as much as a full volt difference in percieved cell voltage. This too is critical.

So if measuring cell volts AT THE CELL with a good multimeter, you may see all balanced. Yet with the same multimeter at the other end of the balance cable it may be different... Remember that a few mV looks out of balance. So this stuff matters. And is why I never crimp anything and use switch cleaner on plugs and sockets and battery terminals.

[shirley_hkg]

Yes. I haven't forgot you said it.

Here is my logic. Correct me if I am wrong.
It's easy and common to have a few mV not the same , amongst 8 cells. So one will see the difference on PL8 too.
On the contrary, it is impossible for PL8 to show an identical value by accidence / coincidence , when the cells are really not the same.

The shots below show the results of the same pack (same balance cable) on 2 PL8 .

I also noticed the sum of the 2 deviated values divided by 2 turn out to be the same as others. Could this be coincident .

I did turn on 4-decimal and all cells were not the same. Nevertheless, I still saw cell 2 was the lowest , cell 3 was the highest.

I couldn't figure out the myth, except an aging PL8.

I can give you an imperfect PL8 free, if you pay the shipping.

[shirley_hkg]

I have endless supply of used PL8 for just @ £40 , if you don't mind this slight imperfection.

[Burgerman]

How much is shipping? Would love a free faulty one. Even if out of spec they will work fine. And esp on lead or lower cell count. The error you show is 2 cells that are 1/200th of a volt out! Thats nothing.

The data from all cells on 3 digits if less than maybe 6mV different to the average, is displayed as identical. So a range of 12mV forms a single line EVEN WHEN ALL CELLS ARE DIFFERENT. A spread of over 12mV ll read identically. Any cells outside of this 12mV range, are displayed as being different. And obviously so. It may be more than 12mV spread.

The data from all cells is AS THE PL8 READS IT when 4 digits are displayed. Each channel, is calibrated to within 3mV. And now shows on screen. So a range of 6mV varation is possible on every single cell if within calibration.

So this means that you can and will see your two images above and both are within spec. ON THE SAME BATTERY because of the way the AVERAGING and 3mV accuracy display works when set to 3 decimal places. The voltages you are looking at are not real.

The only time you can get real voltages is when set to 4 decimal places. And when measured directly at the INPUT TO THE PL8 with a calibrated multimeter. Each actual input channel (battery will really be slightly different) This can be compared to the voltages shown in the PL8 and should be within 3mV plus or minus compared to an accurate meter. The PL8 has to be set to monitor too.

The graphs you show above are not real voltages.
Thats not to say some l8s are not fauly or out of calibration but the way you are looking for this is in itself flawed. It wont tell you much.

[Burgerman]

I check these by connecting any 8s battery.
Set to monitor -essential.
Set to 4 decimal places -essential.
Then I compare the ACTUAL voltage with my fancy fluke test meter. At the PL8 balance input connector starting at cell1 and the negative.

Then I see what each cell actually measures, in peak, high, low, and in averaged high, low, and rms. And compare the figures to the PL8 display. It doesent matter if the pack is out of balance, or that there are inducted voltages, or extra voltages caused by connnections etc.

It just leaves you with a real voltage, and a pl8 displayed voltage to compare for each channel. If each is within a 6mV range its within spec.

[shirley_hkg]

How much is shipping? Would love a free faulty one..

£40 shipping. The 4 JST balance leads can go together.

[shirley_hkg]

Monitoring a balanced pack.

And 4-decimal place is ON.

[Burgerman]

Sounds good. Money sent £40. Thanks!

[shirley_hkg]

You got message.

[Khreat]

I bought a pl8 from Shirley and received it this week. All appears to be in order although I'm having to work out how to get started, so haven't tested yet.
I wanted to to say thank you to Shirley and give positive feedback, without creating an extra post on the forum.

[Burgerman]

You now need the 3.5 or 3.6 firmware.
Which is built in to the PC software that you also need.
Then you need a thing called a FUIM3 to connect to a PC.
Then you need a handful of balance cables, that connect to the balance port.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/doomed ... nstall.exe

And a couple of my modded presets.

[Khreat]

Thanks.
I got the usb link (fuim3, I assume) and a ballance board from Shirley at the same time.
I've downloaded a manual so I'm browsing that.
I haven't got any ec5 or xc60 connectors, so probably stalled for a few days but I'll check that software link out. Thanks

[Burgerman]

I chop those off and fit grey anderson 50s to every damned thing! Chairs, cars, chargers, solar systems, drills, and many things like inverters, leads and cables, my electric bed, mower, etc etc. So that I have a multitude of things that can be connected in the event of needing to start a vehicle from a chair, run a charger from a van or chair, or solar sustem battery, or a power cut means I need to run everything from an inverter via a chair, solar, van, etc.

You will need a couple of presets to charge lead or lithium that I have modded in ways that you cant see. So that they work properly on our bigger batteries and for lead etc without endless "errors"...

[Khreat]

I might do that as I have some 50s and since I'm using battery's for supply for now, would work with an old harness.

Do you have a link to your presets? All the pl8 and lithium threads are so long, it takes forever trying to find info.

[Burgerman]

Busy here. Give me some time. What are the batteris?

[shirley_hkg]

Thanks..
I haven't got any ec5

I included an EC5 male already.

[expresso]

I encountered about half a dozen imperfect units so far , though they still be good to use.

Shirley. I asked this queston by PM and in at least 5 different threads. HOW are you measuring the PL8 read voltage?
Because you CANNOT see the voltage it actually reads unless you also enable the 4 digit decimal places. If you dont, then it squeezes all the voltages together, and averages them closer to make pretty graphs. And to disguise any bad calibration that will not affect the user.

So can you confirm that you do this below. If not then all the voltages you are reading are WRONG!!! 4 decimal places not only increases accuracy it also removes the false "squashed together" data. You MUST do this. If not the figures you see are nonsense!

Just reading this now - i checked my PL 8 i am using and it dosnt have an option to pick decimal count display etc,

i believe its 3.36v firmware -

[Khreat]

Busy here. Give me some time. What are the batteris?

For the power source? 2x75ah lucas sla, in series/parallel, whichever would be best? I don't think I'll be using higher current charging until I've got a mains supply.

[Khreat]

Thanks..
I haven't got any ec5

I included an EC5 male already.

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting you didn't. I was wanting different cables for different sources though.

[woodygb]

Just reading this now - i checked my PL 8 i am using and it dosnt have an option to pick decimal count display etc,

i believe its 3.36v firmware -

Same here ..NO visible option for decimal places.

Are you using an OEM version B.M.?

[Burgerman]

I am confused.
Where and what decimals are you looking for? Note, I never use the charger buttons. Or its screen. I use my laptop... And the CCS software for all settings, all control, all charging and discharging. Even at the flying feild in my van.
In that situation it plugs into an anderson in my van, or my chair to power it.
You can charge from 12V or 24 volts it steps up or down voltage as required.

Firmware is (newest) 3.36 or 3.35 across all 6 of my PL8s. Theres only 1 difference between 3.35 and 3.36 and that is the ramp up speed. Which doesent make any difference to us. So 3.35 and 3.36 are both great. Dont use lower ones... Those had bugs, and incorrect algos etc.

I am using this below for REMOVING data averaging, and seeing reality. And it shows more decimal places which is another benefit. The biggest reason is not the extra decimal places (on the PC screen, noclue what the charger says on its screen) but to TURN OFF all data averaging and get true voltages across cells. Graphs look less tidy but its real! Works the same behind the scenes regardless.

Where mine says DEVELOPER PROPERTIES yours will likely say ADVANCED. You can have his too if you know how. Ask me if you want it!

[woodygb]

The "Cell Display" option does not exist.

[Burgerman]

I have a few controls and settings that normal users dont. I can make presets that you cant unless you modify the registry to allow this. So the options on my screen are different to yours.

You can have this too. But it alows you to screw things up, since unless you know what the side effects are you cannot predict the result... I modify the presets so that they do not cause problems with wider voltage spread limits, low or high start voltages, timouts, and about 30 other things.

See here. These are the options that beta testers used.

[Burgerman]

PM me for a couple of beta tester registry hacks...

[Burgerman]

Busy here. Give me some time. What are the batteris?

For the power source? 2x75ah lucas sla, in series/parallel, whichever would be best? I don't think I'll be using higher current charging until I've got a mains supply.

I meant the batts you were charging? But:

Do yourself a favour. Get a shirley ZXD power supply. They are pretty bomb proof, 0-50A, 0-60V, and are stable, smooth, and include a 3 stage charger too in the event you want to charge a BMS equiped pack or a lead battery properly!