WheelchairDriver

Hi everybody!,
Yes grease is necessary.
Preventing the salt to reach the metal made sens to me so I constructed a sort of wall between the wheel and the motor Area.

It is made from 1 mm kitchen cutting board. Flexible but still can hold itself.

I did cut a rectangle in the plastic to have the motor come out since otherwise the tires were touching the plastic board .

So far it looks like it works well. I bring back a lot less snow to melt indoor.

Do you have Ideas of how I could improve the desing or others ideas? Because I will have to do another version with black cutting board to reduce the home made visual aspect of it in the eye of public transport inspectors which usually feel that if it does not come from a official provider, it is not safe. The problem is that they could refuse me access if this anti splash looks too much home made to a chair with already unusual esthetic. So using black may be more incognito.

The previous message shows wall protection from the side but the reality is that I have to drive through some snow barricade and cars splash me and the chair sometimes so snow comes from the front and back and has access to the motor and more. One of the motor on the picture has the freewheel in front so it makes it even more important to protect.

Also the front casters themselves pull salty water up directly in the face of the front of the motor.

So to reduce the impact of those 2 things I thought of placing a plastic pot on the front of the motor and would make it stay there with velcro or tie wraps.

I have the choice of thoses 2 sizes of pots as seen on the picture and I could also use a 2 liter coca cola plastic bottle to cover even more of the motor ...

But is completely covering the motor a good Idea in the firts place? If i use a long 2 liters bottle I am wary that I would create a micro climate around the motor reducing its cooling capacity. I guess with the smaller pot on the picture it would not create a micro climate. What about the longer pot on the picture? Do you agree ? What do you think?

Feel free to let me know of things I might not be considering or even other ideas for protection from salty water.


Thanks

I dont know where to begin.
I would remove all that plastic because it will likely get just as wet under the plastic anyway as water and snow will run everywhere. And now it cant dry out easily or be rinsed with water and so the salt is trapped. It will not stop anything rusting or corroding. May even make things worse. The casters will throw salt up the other side of that "wall" and cover everything...

As for the bus driver, its non of his damned business... Tell him so.
CLEAN white snow will not make anything rust. Its actually helpful. Its just water. It helps remove the salt.
It is the SALT in the melted snow - the wet surfaces you roll on - on the road, and on footpaths that is just water/salt spray that corrodes metal. And it gets everywhere.

For the 3rd time...
Get some spray oil! And coat everything from the seat down once a week when the chair is dry. Until it looks wet. It will penetrate all the places you cannot get to, every nook and cranny that the salt gets into, and protect everything from corrosion. It stops salt corrosion.

When you arrive home rinse the bottom half of the chair with a hose pipe before going into the house to get the salt and road muck off. You will see all the black salt/road muck leave a dirty puddle.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/One-200ml-Oil- ... B000TVLT00

This or ANY spray mineral type oil. This is all you need.
Regularly spray, all parts below the seat. Avoid tyres. (Not critical.)
Every time you see its worn or washed away, spray it all again. Its liquid, it creeps and soaks into all nooks and crevices and will properly coat all metal parts.
And... WASH salt off with a hose when you return home. Takes minutes. The SALT is the problem, not water, not clean snow.

NOT WD40, NOT cooking oil.
You can make a simple mix with 25% to 50% paraffin/kerosene and simple cheap engine oil. And a pump up sprayer like used for gardening. The kerosene thins it, making it penetrate and flow everywhere easily. It will drip oil for a while eave outdoors. Then kerosene it evaporates away leaving the oil behind.

If you cannot FULLY dissassemble, to lightly grease all parts 100% fully coated, just use regular sprays of oil. Oily metal cannot corrode.

Washed metal, with a hose so salt is gone, also cannot corrode.

Do both. Regularly. Or move to texas.

Yep I mean it's the same as a car. A car here will only last a few years if not oiled or washed every ride. If you have a garage, a quick hose clean will be much more beneficial than fenders or w/e.

Where is "here"?

Same thing in any place that spreads corrosive salt in winter though. Some places worse than others. Fortunately this useless socialist hated government have bankrupted the local authorities and so they cant afford to spread that shit on the roads in the same quantities as in the past.

We live in the same city. Wanna see how roads look like "here"?
We might have the worst roads on the planet. That all caused by salt and/or snowplow.

Horrendous amounts of highly corrosive salt. You may as well get a new chair each year.

Why dont both of you move somewhere sane?

If I lived there I would move.
If I didnt move I would build a replica set of parts and all of it in stainless steel. Including all bolts, spacers, washers, frames, rims, etc. Then even without paint it will last and look new, decades later.

Cant do that with motors, so would re-build those from scratch when new and grease everything, replace all bolts etc with stainless steel, and replace every 2 years.

Stainless frame...

This is aluminium, easy to make something in stainless instead.

No place is perfect though. The other side there's no healthcare, school shootings everywhere, go to school and you're in debt for the rest of your life.

Burgerman wrote:I dont know where to begin.
I would remove all that plastic because it will likely get just as wet under the plastic anyway as water and snow will run everywhere. And now it cant dry out easily or be rinsed with water and so the salt is trapped. It will not stop anything rusting or corroding. May even make things worse. The casters will throw salt up the other side of that "wall" and cover everything...

HI which plastic do you refer too? the kitchen cutting board or the 500 ml pot on the end of the motor or the 1Liter pot lightly open ?

I will add some paper easy to spot when wet for my next outing but it seems that the cutting board are doing a very good job at not allowing snow nor water to go on top of the motor gearbox area from the sides which also reduce the amouth of water soaking the entrance mat since no snow has collected there. I dont know if the pots would be enough to stop the water from the front caster though.

I remember that you said to wash the chair but as I had answered, I have no garage nor place to wash the chair in winter unfortunately. Oil will be sprayed yes but not every week. On cars people put fluid film once per year and have seen it was enough even for the undercar exposed. So If I put once per month in winter with some physical way to reduce the amount of salty water lifted, I think it will be good . The cutting board and aspiring caster water protection is an addition to the protection.

About the coca cola 2 liters plastic bottle not showned on the picture, would such a long bottle reduce the capacity of the motor to be able to coo itself? Maybe i could just place a hanging rectangle in front of the motor to block the caster's water splashing.

HI which plastic do you refer too? the kitchen cutting board or the 500 ml pot on the end of the motor or the 1Liter pot lightly open ?

ALL. Its a a waste of time. May even make things worse and keep it all wet and stop the fresh water/snow clearing the salt. And yes it will hinder cooling but thats not going to matter in those conditions.

Even WD40 which is crap, is better than nothing at all. Bits of plasticc sheet or coke bottles wont stop any rust.

Burgerman wrote:Stainless frame...

This is aluminium, easy to make something in stainless instead.

Nice frame. Do you have a link to the manufacturing of that chair?

Not manufactured, made in a users home (cars garage space) of a man I know.

You can buy stainless bends. And straight tube. Just weld it together, and copy say an F55 type tube frame. Make a clone, change it as you wish.
If you also only ever use stainless steel inc all bolts, spacers, axles etc then you coud dump it in sea water for a year and it wont rust or even change. It will get dirty, but it will just wipe/wash off...

Found a stainless cap screw (allen bolt) on my BBQ/patio the other day. From 1997 when I dropped it there when building an F55 chair. I saw it happen, coudnt reach it. Saw it occasionaly over the years. My carer found it and brought it into my bedroom a few months ago. He though it had fallen out of my chair. Said it was "new" looking. Because it just hadnt changed... Still shiny.

See this?
I built it from stainless exhaust tubing. So it doesent corrode. April 29, 2013. 12 YEARS ago. Or should I say I made all the choices and my freind did the hard bit! Its been outdoors, for almost 13 years in wind and rain. It looks EXACTLY the same today. No trace of rust or corrosion on any of those tubes. Or bolts. Or U bolts. They still look like new.

Take a stainless A2 or A4 allen bolt and nut. And a black steel one, and a galvanise or zinc coated one. Drop them all into a glass of water with some salt, or vinigar or whatever in it. Leave these on a shelf for a few years... The steel ones will be very corroded. The stainless one will be unchanged.

Some grades of stainless like 304 can get some very small fine rust if in prolonged contact with salt water. So for marine use the common 316 type as you will find on eBay bolts and bearings etc are prefered. In normal outdoor use even 304 will never rust significantly enough to really even see it. Even on salted roads. But 316 still better.

Look here, cheap low grade 304 stainless:
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/solar- ... riment.htm
And thats what a TIME machine (delorean) is made of and its got no paint. Cybetruck is also stainless and no paint.
Click link above. Heres a preview!

Steel anchor chain.
Stainless steel anchor chain...

This is how they will look after a little use.
Stainless steel 316 metal bolts or parts have a little chromium added (16 to 18%) and some other metals that prevent corrosion. Even in sea water, this is almost 99.9% free of corrosion or rust.

Its not "chromed" its the same metal all the way through.



It never does this:



This is what happens if you forget to use a stainless steel washer!
Stainless steel bolt/stud? Yes.
Stainless steel washer? NO!
Stainless steel nut? Yes.




This is why you build a chair with:
a) grease on all threads and a THIN layer on all surfaces, AS YOU BUILD a chair coating every part, every hole, every thread, every seam and edge INDIVIDUALLY as you build it up.
b) stainless steel axles, bearings, bolts, nuts, washers, screws, and coppergrease.

IF you care. Thats the ONLY way to do it properly.

THESE look like this after a decade of use. And if GREASED on assembly will come out as easily as the day they were fitted.

You MUST use some type of grease (like plain old lithium grease) or anti sieze (copper grease) or Loctite on any stainless steel bolt. NEVER use them clean and dry without one of these compounds.

Stainless bolts with stainless nuts or threadded parts can friction weld to each other seemingly for no reason. Thats why you need to understand the above!
Grease of any type is fine in almost all aplications. If you need to use something to prevent it vibrating loose or on say a brake caliper, you can also use blue Loctite as this also prevents siezing and corrosion too.

Burgerman wrote:
Stainless bolts with stainless nuts or threadded parts can friction weld to each other seemingly for no reason..

Good to know , I could not have imagine that

This is the problem with having no experience.
Every seemingly simple thing really isnt! And small things can be the difference beteween disaster or success.

They can grab and sieze even when loose in your hands. With stainless you need lubrication / grease / loctite or something to protect from this. And to stop elecroytic corrosion in alloy threadded parts ike a gearbox.

I suppose that welding stainless steel requires electrodes and special machinery...

Why doesent those plastic "splash" shields help?
Because as you roll the wet salty water is sprayed from the front caster wheels up and all over the place and that includes the oher side of your flat sheets. The main wheels do the same. Splashes from traffic go all over and run down.

Then water/salt mixture spreads out and soaks into every crevice and bolt thead etc. It is drawwn into all tiny gaps like pores in paint, threads under bolt heads, gasket surfaces etc by something called cappiliary attraction. Which is a bit like you when you see a pretty girl.
it dries out over time. Leaving this salt behind. Now you have a layer of salt coating every part, even bolt threads. And that stuff is still corroding every single part even when its all dry indoors a week later. Because theres humidity in the air. So no amount of keeping it dry or attempting to do that with a bit of plastic as a shield can stop this corrosion starting or continuing. Worse, dry salt coating everything, especially behind your plastic, works like a bit of blotting paper. It attracts water, and storers it up like a sponge, and makes sure it gets into every crack crevice possible. Even with a tiny splash. When you wax a car you do the same thing. The water cant "wet" the surface and it beads up, runs off. Paint stays clean and shiny.

This is why its always important to START CLEAN when assembling in the first place or when rebuilding it. With zero salt. Then add oil, grease, loctite etc as you build paying careful attention to coating everything, even the painted surfaces. This layer only needs to be a few atoms thick. Invisible to you. But it fills the voids and pores and micro cracks in the surface of paint. It coats threads and stops there even being a space for water and seals them up preventing water contacting them.

This is why its important to RINSE away salt as soon as you get back.
This is why you should use *something* (even if its just crappy old WD40), to recoat everything regularly. Oil lasts much longer. Grease can last a year. Or a lifetime in threads and bearings etc.

Its also why its pretty much a waste of time doing ANYTHING once the salt and corrosion has already started.

martin007 wrote:I suppose that welding stainless steel requires electrodes and special machinery...

Yes. And the act of welding can ruin the level of corrosion resistance slightly too. Even with stainless rods. But its still good enough.

Do you have a machine for welding stainless steel?

I can weld. I have never done that since landing in a chair. Because I feel nothing below chest, hot metal, or anything landing in my lap, cant run away or dodge it either. Not safe. And being sat down makes access to the thing you want to weld problematic. But I have an engineering college about 1/2 a mile away. Which has a welding shop, teaches both tig and gas welding. So I just show them what I need done, they do it and I collect part/chair etc later. Costs a few tokens to keep them happy!

Costs a few tokens to keep them happy!

The cost is manageable.