PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 26 Aug 2022, 13:15

Note that the mobility software is DUMB and YOU must select the correct number Comms port.
In addition the Port MUST have been assigned a number between 1- 8 inclusive by Windows...if it hasn't then YOU must use Windows Device Manager and alter the assigned Com Port number.

The software often starts by moaning that it is " Unable to open Serial Port " click on OK , Continue , Tools , Comms and select the correct Comms port number.

See pictorial guide below.

PGDT COMMS .jpg
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby wheelerx » 27 Aug 2022, 18:23

hello everyone! I'm new to all this programming stuff, just bought a new programmer module that came with cables on a CD-ROM. I have my 2017/18 Permobil F3 currently torn apart down to the base sitting in my garage. I want to do some programming on it to see what all my options are. so I uploaded my original programming and saved it to hard disk. However now that I've written to the controller I am stuck in "seating" mode and all does is boot up into the seating mode and I can't do anything else from their. if I am in programming mode I can switch OBP but nothing else. I've tried downloading my original profile, no change. Tried loading presets, I get a communications error.

So I'm stuck and don't know where to go. Is there anyway to make the ignore anything related to seating/ICS. Any other ideas on what might be going on?

Thank you so much,
Mel
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 27 Aug 2022, 19:11

Because its permobil.

Unlike most normal powerchairs that use normal generic parts, that can all be programmed in the usual way permobil are "different". They have a complex mix of parts manufactured just for them, including their ICS seating stuff, their own cheap versions of the joysticks, and stability/gyro systems, switches etc. That requires a special modified firmware in the power module, in ordr to work with all their non R-Net components.
So they have different firmware, software, and special software to deal with their ICS stuff/gyros etc and normal generic R-Net programming will not be much help.

And its a minefield that even they dont understand. They fix stuff by swapping out part numbers till it works. As such I honestly dont know how to help you. And worse, its not actually possible to make one steer properly anyway. And they have TWO sections that control steering. One under their gyro, one at the normal place at the top. And you shouldnt mess with the first normal one ar it uses weird fudged settings in order to get their gyro to work properly. Which is why they dont allow OBP to be used. So those first set of speed setting look very peculiar to anyone used to programming R-Net stuff...

And I think you will need the OEM level Permobil software/dongle too. The Dealer one is very restricted and wont show you many of the settings at all. So I dont know how I can help.

People say I am anti permobil. And I am. And this shows EXACTLY why that is. Because you are basically screwed even when you get it working again. Someone with a permobil will be along in a minute. They may get it working again, maybe with permobil software, but it will never drive well. Their system wont allow it.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby LittlePhil » 28 Aug 2022, 18:04

I’ve just bought a new second hand chair, a sunrise salsa.

Can anyone help me with what settings on the software to make it go forward as fast as reasonably possible?

I’ve got the software and cable.

Thanks
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 28 Aug 2022, 18:20

As long as it has max forward speed set to 100 it will not go faster.

Salsas come with 4mph, from NHS usually, 2 pole. If its 4 pole than it may actually be a 6mph even if its set to 4mph. And then you can make it faster with the OEM version of the software.

Theres a lot more settings that will make it steer properly though.

I have a salsa. Its better than the newer q700r. Or it can be...

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... 00#p122818
Read carefully.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby mrgus2u » 28 Aug 2022, 20:12

I know all about the comm port assignment, I changed the assigned comm port in device manager from 5 to 1 and then to 2 and changed the comm port on the software accordingly with no luck. As to the programming cable, I made it myself, with an FTDI usb adapter, using a 47k resistor on the Vcc wire and a Schottky diode. Still getting a comm port inactive warning.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby wheelerx » 28 Aug 2022, 21:10

Burgerman wrote:Because its permobil.


Thank you very much for your response, even though it's a bit discouraging. I just inquired as to which dongle I purchased. I'll wait to post any more questions until I know that. Thanks again
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 28 Aug 2022, 21:23

It will be dealer. Unless you got it from a non permobil source. And even then it may be dealer as they are easy to get. But if so theres a workaround so that the OEM software can be used...

If its got an A on it its dealer. If its a B its OEM and you won the lottery.

PM me.
But dont expect much, depending on what you are aiming to do. Because theres not a lot that you will be able to do. And some stuff that is not "normal" on R-net so doesent do what you expect...

As for all their own stuff, like their ics thingy, thats a big mystery box. Even to them it seems.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby wheelerx » 28 Aug 2022, 21:46

Burgerman wrote:If its got an A on it its dealer. If its a B its OEM and you won the lottery


AW21... :(
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 29 Aug 2022, 01:00

Its a single letter on the back on a white square. Usually.

Also for others, we are now junking the permobil ICS and seating and fitting a seat riser/tilt from a pride chair. By PM. And he already has the OEM access software too now. Inc the permobil one.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby wheelerx » 29 Aug 2022, 01:23

Thank you Burgerman for your help so far. Another question for you and the public in general. I won't go into all the details of why (unless you really want to know--hint fishtailing), but I want to turn my Permobil F3 Into a rearwheel drive chair. Because I'm stuck in some weird seating mode, I haven't been able to test this since I got my programmer. There are several things in the settings that I hope will accomplish what I need. One is the Seat Reversal Profile and the other ones are various Invert settings. Obviously there are other mechanical bits involved as well, but is this feasible From the electronic side?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby Burgerman » 29 Aug 2022, 09:20

Thats what I would do. Even WITH a gyro (which makes the drive like crap regardless of front/rear/mid) they still cannot be made to steer properly.

No you dont need seat reversal mode. It is for seats that turn and drive both ways.


There is a proper way in programming. And if you prefer a proper way in actual motor connections. By reversing the motor wires.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 29 Aug 2022, 09:46

mrgus2u wrote:I know all about the comm port assignment, I changed the assigned comm port in device manager from 5 to 1 and then to 2 and changed the comm port on the software accordingly with no luck. As to the programming cable, I made it myself, with an FTDI usb adapter, using a 47k resistor on the Vcc wire and a Schottky diode. Still getting a comm port inactive warning.


You could try checking the FTDI Cable with a "loopback" test .
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby mrgus2u » 29 Aug 2022, 20:30

Woody, I performed the loopback test and found no errors, all bits come back without a glitch. On every occasion I have turned the controller on, yet I get port inactive error, the controller is not responding, or there is another problem preventing communications. My last resort is to pull out my oscope and try to see if the data is making it to the molex connector. I have the VCC set to 5 volts, I assume that is the right setting.9600 baud,n,8 1 are my com settings. Am I missing something? :(
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 29 Aug 2022, 22:25

I have NEVER had to play with ANY settings....there is NO TRICK it just works.

My normal DEFAULT settings are .

Bits per Second 9600
Data bits 8
Parity None
Stop bits 1
Flow Control None

NOTE:- I have ONCE come across a S45 that would not communicate ...it had a blown internal component , a diode as I recall , just under the 4 pin Molex .
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby mrgus2u » 30 Aug 2022, 09:35

My apologies. When building the programming cable, I applied too much heat to the Schottky diode. I forgot that, because of the metal doping in the substrate, these diodes conduct heat much faster than their plain silicone counterparts, making it a good idea to put a clamp on the leads while you solder, the clamp works as a heatsink. I made a resistance measurement of the diode and found it was way off the normal readings (had 6 megohms reverse, but 3 megs forward). I had ordered ten diodes, so no harm done, replaced it and problem solved. czy
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 30 Aug 2022, 10:01

Glad that the problem has been solved. :thumbup:

Please note that the larger amperage S-Drives may not communicate with just this simple resistor / diode modification....they require a slightly more complex interface build.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby jards1948 » 24 Jul 2023, 22:43

I have a s-drive 45a D50770.03 that needs programing, I have a cord that i used to program a
Brother Knitting Machine Please could someone point me in the right direction.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 24 Jul 2023, 23:12

You need the software and a suitable cable.

Any specs on the Sewing machine cord?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby jards1948 » 25 Jul 2023, 00:01

It is a FTDI chip usb to serial which i will mod with the addition of resistor and diode. Have spent my life working with
computers
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby jards1948 » 25 Jul 2023, 00:10

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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 25 Jul 2023, 15:18

jards1948 wrote:It is a FTDI chip usb to serial which i will mod with the addition of resistor and diode. Have spent my life working with
computers
Jards1948


You have a Private Message.

You should also download and install winhlp32win10.zip
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... hp?id=8946

Unzip then Run "Install" as Administrator ...to do this you Right Click on "Install" and choose Run as Administrator.
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby jards1948 » 25 Jul 2023, 23:25

thank you Woody
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby jards1948 » 29 Jul 2023, 08:45

Found the scooter did not have any wiring between charger socket and
molex on s drive got more parts from supplier. remade cable and now works
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 29 Jul 2023, 08:47

Excellent! :thumbup:
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby wrusman » 24 Aug 2023, 08:36

Hello all,

I've gotten my hands on an elder model Meyra scooter and it seems to have an S-drive D51120.02 in it.

I've found the dealer version of the PGDT software and tried creating the cable with the FT2303 board and the diode from the beginning of the thread but I don't seem to get any connection.
I Noticed there are alt least 2 versions of the schematic floating around on the forum so I tried both, but to no avail. The setup with the diode "blocking" current from the programmer TX pin seems strange, but I guess it is a normal HIGH and active LOW pin which will let the current flow towards TX pin of the programmer instead of a current flow towards the RX pin of the controller.

Is the FTDI setup with the schottkey diode and resistor more reliable than the FT2303 or shouldn't that matter ? And is there any chance i can also get the OEM version of the software from anyone ?
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 24 Aug 2023, 09:52

I think that your S-Drive is a 120 Amp version...if so it requires a different build for the interface.

The attachment kirk s-drive.png is no longer available


kirk s-drive.png
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby wrusman » 25 Aug 2023, 09:20

Woodygb, Thank you for all the information and the link you sent :worship
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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby wrusman » 26 Aug 2023, 18:40

Just a quick update.
You can also use irfz44n FET's for the schematic with the same voltage setting, I just got that working with some I had laying around :dance

Also I think the pin numbers of the optional transistors instead of the FET's has the wrong mapping from gsd to bce.
Gate ~ base, source ~ emittor and drain ~ collector

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Re: PINNED - Info on PROGRAMMING PGDT and others

Postby woodygb » 26 Aug 2023, 19:03

Thanks ...I will check out the notation.


DONE.

kirk layout veroboard trans.jpg
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