Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

[woodygb]

The 1309 CANNOT program via CAN and doesn't have a translator of any sort embedded in it.


The LATEST 1314 requires a "Genuine" Curtis Can interface ...I say "Genuine" because they are rebadged and made by Sontheim Industries.

E.G. The CanFox USB/VID_152A&PID_8427&MI_00

https://www.sontheim-industrie-elektron ... nterfaces/

There is however a work around for CAN using the earlier software ...some modified files and a specific USB to CAN Debugger / USB can Converter A1

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... SB#p154971

P.S. Curtis development is Swiss based ... https://www.curtisag.ch/en ...hence the European ( German ) interfaces.

[FL1PP3R]

Hey Everyone,

After some time pursuing other projects I'm back to this one.
I can connect to the wheelchair with the 1314 software, thankyou everyone for your assistance with this, with either the wealth of information in this thread or by answering my questions directly.

I can sniff the canbus messages using the CAN-H and CAN-L connections on the handcontrol, and can see what looks to be a handshake between the controller and the power base.
However when I try to sending sections of what looks like a can bus handshake, (either through the connection on the handcontroller or on the CAN_H and CAN_L connectors on the cable with the handcontrol disconnected) I can't get any sort of response from the power base at all.

Has anyone else attempted this sort of thing, and hopefully have some pointers for me?

Thanks again everyone

[woodygb]

Not a clue.

[gcebiker]

Woody has done the heavy lifting for turning your chair into RC, the joystick you have is very similar to the PG (the actual joystick not the joystick module, the modules are very different)

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... f=2&t=3790

.... at least I think they are, Been a few years since I have had to work on one.

[woodygb]

As gcebiker say's it is fairly simple to hack in at the joystick and provide an analogue swing voltage for control.

[FL1PP3R]

I did persevere with the CAN bus for a little while longer and got to the point where I could generate error messages, sound the horn and a that kind of thing, but I couldn't figure out the handshake. I suspect the charger inhibit circuit plays a part in this but for now I'm just going to hack the joystick, as has been rightly pointed here it is much easier. My solution isn't quite as neat as yours yet Woody, it’s still on breadboard for now!

Regarding the programming I do have some more questions:
1. What are the different battery types? (U1, NF-22, GROUP 24, GROUP 34, and 3 custom selections) and can one of the custom selections be utilised for lithium batteries?
2. I have removed the Advanced Actuator Module (AAM) altogether, which casues an error message on start-up, is there any way to disable this?

Thanks again

[woodygb]

Just so you are aware ... The joystick produces 2 off X axis voltages and 2 off Y axis voltages and the pods board requires all 4 .

You can however cheat and bifurcate the X and Y axis signal that you produce to give the required 4 voltage signals.

DUAL OUTPUT SAME SENSE.
https://www.farnell.com/datasheets/30691.pdf

[FL1PP3R]

I don't know if I've seen that particular data sheet, I've been using this one:
https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/geta ... 0_brochure

After probing around with a meter, I came up with this:

wheelchair notes.png (7.28 KiB) Viewed 3185 times

Note that the forward reverse and left right channels are swapped compared to the data sheet, I guess the stick is rotated in the handpiece for some reason.
I also thought it was a little strange that pin 6 wasn't 2600mv but 2440mv.

So, I ended up using a 4 channel DAC, paralleling each pair of axis voltages on channels A and B, and the centre tap voltage on channel C, so far so good...

As for the RC input, I had a DX6i already so used it, as a bonus the satellite receiver outputs all 6-channel data over serial making a failsafe easy to implement.

I still have a few things left on my wish list
• I'm using 2 x 45aH batteries, I've no idea what battery type these are
• Disable the AAM error on start-up (if possible)
• Figure out converting single stick control to twin stick
• Enable some way to switch between single stick control and twin stick control on the fly

Thanks again

[woodygb]

Twin stick ... one stick for each wheel? ...if so you will have a problem as the 2 signals are mixed in the pod / controller.

[gcebiker]

I still have a few things left on my wish list
• I'm using 2 x 45aH batteries, I've no idea what battery type these are
• Disable the AAM error on start-up (if possible)
• Figure out converting single stick control to twin stick
• Enable some way to switch between single stick control and twin stick control on the fly

Thanks again

Information in this thread for programming the controller, in the programming you can remove the actuator, which will remove the startup notification.

[gcebiker]

I still have a few things left on my wish list
• I'm using 2 x 45aH batteries, I've no idea what battery type these are
• Disable the AAM error on start-up (if possible)
• Figure out converting single stick control to twin stick
• Enable some way to switch between single stick control and twin stick control on the fly

Thanks again

Information in this thread for programming the controller, in the programming you can remove the actuator, which will remove the startup notification.

Twin stick wont be an issue if you have the axis information only coming from one input.
eg. Left / Right wired to both joysticks on the same axis of each joystick with a switch on the joystick that diverts the power feeds to the joystick you wish to use.
This would allow you to do it on the fly / switch back and forth, can't imagine why you would want to but it will cheap/easy achieve your goal.

[anon8472]

Hi. I just got a q6 edge with q-logic 3 and want to turn off the sleep mode. Can I do this without a programmer?

[Burgerman]

No. At least as far as I know.

[anon8472]

Why is it that the programmers aren't at LEAST OFFERED to us? I mean my chair is literally my house and they lock me out of ever changing it. I realize some chair owners may not be tech-savvy but some of us have literal computer science degrees. Sorry I'm venting lol

[Burgerman]

The reason that most on here avoid permobil and pride stuff is exactly that. Both will allow "dealer" level tools/programmers. But those are seldom adequate. The stuff you want to change lives behind walls limiting settings and many important things are hdden completely... So only buy a chair that you CAN get an OEM level programmer for, and that only uses normal controller manufacturer parts. Then all is easy! Today this basically means R-Net generic.

We have methods here of programming at OEM or better level for Dynamic DX stuff, Dynamic Linx, Penny and giles made stuff like Pilot Plus, VR2, R-Net, etc, And Curtis Instruments controls, who actually make the pride stuff for them. The trouble is that they use custom modded firmware, and so needs unobtainable pride only OEM level programmer as the curtis OEM programmer doesent work on modern pride stuff.

So in future only buy chairs that use generic PGDT made R-Net as most of the alternatives have difficulties one way or another. Which rules out permobil too as they have their own versions of many system parts and like pride the tools are not available and even understandable and are firmware and version specific.

[anon8472]

I kind of don't know how to do that. I go to the place where I've always gotten my chairs and they mold the seat and stuff but have never once asked me what kind of chair I wanted.

[anon8472]

I found the latest ECON and can connect via Bluetooth but I have no account so....

[Burgerman]

YOU must TELL THEM what you want or forever be a victim that allows the system to control you.

Here is my last 2 chairs.
READ CAREFULLY as all the spec and modification details MATTER!!! They mean the difference between a pile of unusable junk or a great chair.
Salsa 2017 https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... 00#p122818

Q700R https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... 33#p171026

Read carefully. If you dont understand any of it ASK!!! You must learn about chairs, then you will know what YOU want and why.

[Burgerman]

No it isnt. Its a bastardised mix of r-net and permobil.

LOL permobil IS R-Net

Some of its parts are or apper to be but use dfferent "permobil" firmware. Not R-net firmware. Much of it isnt R-Net at all. Esp on newer chairs and is manufactured FOR permobil by a 3rd party with different firmware to make it work with their own non generic R-Net cheaper cut down home made parts. And some of it is entirely different.


With almost every other chair all R-Net CONTROL SYSTEM components are used with standardised firmware so it all plays nicely together. And can be easily swapped out or programmed. That means the complete control system. And helping people is easy as all of it is easy to get, swap from chair to chaIr, and between manufacturers. Want a seating actuator? A gyro? Order from PGDT direct, ebay, or say sunrise or magic mobility, or any company using R-Net parts. All fit, work, and can be programmed properly with the generic OEM programmer.


With permobil it simply isnt possible to help as many of the parts that are causing the problems, are NOT R-net and are manufactured by permobil. These include joysticks (with cut down options, missing buttons, and different non compatible firmware options, power modules with different firmware t0 match the non R-Net parts, seating/lighting modules that are completely non compatible, switches next to joystick, non compatible, they also have their own non R-Net gyro/stability system all which is tied into the control system and which only permobil special software can adjusst or even see many of the programing options. And if all these permobil (NOT R-net) parts and different firmwares dont align even their own software (which I have) doesent help. Even permobil cant troubleshoot this mess and almost always resort to swpping out parts at random in an effort to fix thing.


Its not that I dont want to help. But once you buy into the permobil "system" there isnt much anyone can do. Its like everyone is using VHS video recorders and you bought a betamax one.

And that is pretty much the same with prides stuff too.


This IS NOT the same with other chairs. Other makes. Yes they use different seating actuators. Those are just motors. But the CONTROL SYSTEM is normally using fully easy to program genuine R-Net parts. So its simple to fix, diagnose, program, etc. Because everything is available on ebay, from many different chair manufacturers, or direct from PGDT themselves.


So choose permobil and you are basically buying into their over complex permobil made ecosystem. Its a permobil job creation scheme. And then theres not much I or anyone can do can do to help. Basically you have to call permobil and pray.


THIS is a complete, SEATING, LIGHTING, JOYSTICK, POWER MODULE, CABLES. Everything you need using real R-Net GENERIC parts. This is everything. And all of it easily bought, swapped, programmed. As used on non permobil chairs. A full REAL R-Net system for a rehab powerchair with 120A, lift, tilt, recline, power legs etc as well as lights. This is how simple it is on other chairs. And all interchangable. Not so on permobil!



EVERYTHING R-Net YOU NEED FOR A FULL REHAB POWERCHAIR:

[Burgerman]

Example.

Permobil mad joystick versus r-net made joystick.

The real one that is fully compatible with any chair with standard firmware, is the one with the larger brighter screen. And the extra buttons. The other one frequently used on permobils, that they manufacture themselves (but not always) is the cheapened one with different firmware.

2 pics. I bought THREE COMPLETE rehab powerchair systems that will work on any powerchair on eBay to put on my shelf as spares for whatever chair I get. And to convert older chairs to R-Net. This pic shows THREE COMPLETE easy to program systems. And generic looms. And bus cables.

The other shows a permobil made "R-Net" lookalike joystick - on the right...

[Burgerman]

So its not that I (we?) dont want to help. Its that we literally cant. Other than advising that you should avoid pride and permobil chairs with all their no user feindly bespoke solutions in future.