Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby kaban » 17 Apr 2020, 09:51

Thank you Woody :D
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby woodygb » 17 Apr 2020, 15:16

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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby kaban » 17 Apr 2020, 16:23

Thank you for your effort woody!

I've ordered this one: https://de.aliexpress.com/item/32819226601.html

Apparently the product will arrive in a month. Let's see.

Untill further problems get me, I wish you great health for these hard Times. ;)
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby FL1PP3R » 02 May 2021, 04:14

Hi everyone, brand new member here and I'm embarking on a small robotics project that you may be able to assist me with. I have a quantum R4000 with a ctldc1466 controller I'd like to repurpose for a robotic project.
I have read through this (and other) threads, and I'm confident I've tried every link to the software with no luck in actually obtaining it. The most success I've had is a download link with no seeds.

Before I either purchase a roboteq/sabertooth/roboclaw motor controller, or purchase a curtis progamming kit, are there any links to that still work to obtain the software for educational purposes?

Cheers, and thanks for you help :)
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby gcebiker » 02 May 2021, 05:05

The saber-tooth is by far the easiest option for robotics, I think it even interfaces with Ardu pilot or is easily able to.
http://greenmobility.com.au/rc-wheelchair-controller/
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby woodygb » 02 May 2021, 09:38

FL1PP3R wrote:Hi everyone, brand new member here and I'm embarking on a small robotics project that you may be able to assist me with. I have a quantum R4000 with a ctldc1466 controller I'd like to repurpose for a robotic project.
I have read through this (and other) threads, and I'm confident I've tried every link to the software with no luck in actually obtaining it. The most success I've had is a download link with no seeds.

Before I either purchase a roboteq/sabertooth/roboclaw motor controller, or purchase a curtis progamming kit, are there any links to that still work to obtain the software for educational purposes?

Cheers, and thanks for you help :)


The controller is an EnAble50 and you need the early 1314 software , some modified files and the A1-USBCAN.

I am however wondering how "programming" the Curtis controller will help you in a robotics project ...what are you trying to achieve?
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby woodygb » 02 May 2021, 12:10

@FL1PP3R

The programming software will NOT allow you to have any direct control of the power module.... instructions to the power module come from the joystick pod via the CAN wires .

So if you want to interface with the power module then you must either decode the CAN signals and provide them direct OR hack in at the joystick ( which is a simple voltage swing ) and provide your own equivalent voltage swing.

Software link .... https://www.nocoev.com/curtis/Software%201314-4401/
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby ex-Gooserider » 04 May 2021, 01:31

woodygb wrote:@FL1PP3R

The programming software will NOT allow you to have any direct control of the power module.... instructions to the power module come from the joystick pod via the CAN wires .

So if you want to interface with the power module then you must either decode the CAN signals and provide them direct OR hack in at the joystick ( which is a simple voltage swing ) and provide your own equivalent voltage swing.

Software link .... https://www.nocoev.com/curtis/Software%201314-4401/


I totally agree that the programming software won't help in controlling a PM, but I could see the use for the programming software in changing how the module works in a robotics project where they might be using different motors, or wanting to change some of the speed / acceleration / power, etc. functions.... So I could still see a use for it if the user understands what the software is for...

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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby FL1PP3R » 05 May 2021, 11:39

I understand that the programming software will not allow direct control, I still think that there will be some benefit to having access to change settings.
I'm waiting on some parts so I can have a go at decoding the CAN signals.

Thanks for the link (and all the other info in this thread), I'll let you know how I go when my USB-CAN converter turns up.
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby bluegizmo83 » 17 May 2021, 19:58

Hi, sorry to be a bother, but I just want to make sure I can actually program a chair with this controller (see attached picture) by following the information in this thread...? It appears to be a Q-Logic NE Series 4-Key Joystick Controller.

p49-1021_1.jpg


I just ordered the correct A1 USB to Can Bus adapter from Aliexpress thats listed here, so I'll have to wait a month or so before I get it. I tried with a different USB to Can Bus adapter from ebay but it didn't work at all.

I think I have all the proper software. I have:
    The Curtis 1314-4401 version software
    Also downloaded the Curtis 1314-4402 version as well
    The LM_USB rar
    The LXN4py2s rar
    The MCP zip
    The QM_USB rar

I've programmed an older different style chair in the past with the PG Drives Technology software and USB to Serial cable, so I'm not a complete noob when it comes to this stuff, but I've never worked with a Can Bus chair before.
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby woodygb » 17 May 2021, 22:08

The NE Series ( enAble40 ) is programmed using a standard serial interface.


viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5488&p=161033&hilit=ne#p161033

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5903&p=82810&hilit=ne+SERIAL#p82812

Image
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby woodygb » 17 May 2021, 22:49

A RS232 serial lead should work for programming but the actual signal is Inverted TTL .
Inverted TTL is similar to RS232 but not the same voltage levels.
https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/215

Here is another post that has some additional information on using an FTDI lead and inverting the RX and TX TTL signals.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2757&p=56996&hilit=ne+SERIAL#p56996

NOTE:- This lead will only work with the earlier Curtis software ..the later Software will only recognise a Genuine Curtis 1309 .

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32838020147.html ...EXPENSIVE!!

I can however provide instructions to reprogram a TTL-232R-3V3 to make it appear to be a Genuine 1309.
https://ftdichip.com/products/ttl-232r-3v3/
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby bluegizmo83 » 18 May 2021, 03:36

woodygb wrote:A RS232 serial lead should work for programming but the actual signal is Inverted TTL .
Inverted TTL is similar to RS232 but not the same voltage levels.
https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/215

Here is another post that has some additional information on using an FTDI lead and inverting the RX and TX TTL signals.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2757&p=56996&hilit=ne+SERIAL#p56996

NOTE:- This lead will only work with the earlier Curtis software ..the later Software will only recognise a Genuine Curtis 1309 .

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32838020147.html ...EXPENSIVE!!

I can however provide instructions to reprogram a TTL-232R-3V3 to make it appear to be a Genuine 1309.
https://ftdichip.com/products/ttl-232r-3v3/


Ah ok, Thanks Woody!

So for the software, I can still use the Curtis 1314 software, but it needs to be an earlier version than the Curtis 1314-4401 unless I buy the TTL-232R-3V3 and reprogram it to appear genuine?
What version do I need?

As for the TTL-232R-3V3, do you know if this board/chip would work to be reprogrammed as I already have one of these?

HTB1yFcKhQvoK1RjSZFDq6xY3pXaX.jpg


Its an FT232RL board and can be set to 3v3 via jumper.
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby bluegizmo83 » 18 May 2021, 03:55

Actually it looks like this FT232RL board is not programmable. I can connect to it using the FT_Prog Utility software, and I can see it when I do the "Scan and Parse" function, but it says "No EEPROM Detected" and when I check the two boxes for inverting the RX and TX and then program it, when I scan it again right after it doesn't have them checked anymore. I also tried changing the PID with the software just to see if that would stick and it didn't either.

FTprog.jpg
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby woodygb » 18 May 2021, 08:42

The 1314-4401 version accepts any make / model of USB ...the 1314-4402 only recognises the 1309.

Actually it looks like this FT232RL board is not programmable.
...That board is using a FAKE FTDI Chip.... A50285BI

http://www.starlino.com/ftdi-chip-real- ... thers.html
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby bluegizmo83 » 18 May 2021, 15:36

woodygb wrote:The 1314-4401 version accepts any make / model of USB ...the 1314-4402 only recognises the 1309.

Actually it looks like this FT232RL board is not programmable.
...That board is using a FAKE FTDI Chip.... A50285BI

http://www.starlino.com/ftdi-chip-real- ... thers.html


Well that'll do it! lol thanks again. I went ahead and ordered that cable you linked so when It arrives I should be able to get it working.
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby woodygb » 18 May 2021, 15:39

If it's a cheap FTDI then it is almost certainly a FAKE.

Should you want the 1309 settings file just ask.
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby bluegizmo83 » 24 May 2021, 23:16

woodygb wrote:If it's a cheap FTDI then it is almost certainly a FAKE.

Should you want the 1309 settings file just ask.


Thanks again Woody!

I received the genuine FTDI cable today that I order from the link you provided, and it works.
I was able to invert the signals in FT_Prog and it saved properly, and I was able to connect to and program my dads chair with version 3.12 of the Curtis 1314 software via the Enhanced Serial connection option.

If you don't mind though, can you still send me that file to make the cable appear genuine in the newer versions of the Curtis 1314 software?
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby FL1PP3R » 29 Oct 2021, 13:55

Hey Everyone,

It's been a few months but I'm finally having a go at connecting to my ctldc1466 with the 1314 pc software and I think I may have run into some issues. Firstly, do I need to have the controller connected to the USB-CAN tool for the 1314 software to recognise a com port?

I've installed 1314 PC Programming station version 3.12, I have what I think is the correct A+ USB CAN tool, I have replaced my LXNpy2s.dll file with Woody's version, and have added the QM_USB.rar file to the program folder also. When I look through the software provided with the USB-CAN tool the closest thing I can find to QM_USB.rar is LM_USB.rar, I have tried renaming the provided file from LM to QM with no success.

I can start the 1314 pc software and connect to the MC-2 simulation; however, I cannot select a com port in any connection mode, the 1314 software does not seem to recognise any com port at all. I have tried reassigning the com port in device manager for the Silicon labs CP210x USB to UART bridge with no success.

I'm sure I'm missing something basic, but I thought I'd ask the experts here before I start purchasing more hardware
Thanks in advance
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby woodygb » 29 Oct 2021, 14:01

Simply plugging in the A1 CAN USB should give you a Com Port....what COM PORT does Windows Device manager say?

You are correct in the need to use LM_USB RENAMED as QM_USB.

NOTE THAT THE 1314 SOFTWARE DOESN'T RECOGNISE COM PORT NUMBERS ABOVE 8 ...or was it 10 ...I cannot recall exactly.
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby FL1PP3R » 29 Oct 2021, 15:07

Thank you for your help with this Woody, the very quick reply is much appreciated

Device manager sees the USB-CAN A1+ at COM1 now, I've reassigned it between COM1, COM2 and COM3 with no success.

Whenever I try to connect with anything other than MC-2 Simulation I get a "list index out of bounds" or "E0023: Initialisation of communication interface failed" error message.

Other than uninstalling everything and starting again from scratch I'm not sure what other options I have.

Thanks again
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby woodygb » 29 Oct 2021, 15:30

Does the 1314 software see the COM Port?

I assume that you have the controller turned ON ?
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby FL1PP3R » 29 Oct 2021, 23:17

The 1314 software does not see a com port at all. I've tried with the controller on, with the controller off, swapped CAN-H and CAN-L, reassigned com ports, replaced the LXN4py2s file with the downloaded one from this thread, replaced QM_USB with the renamed LM_USB supplied with my device.

I've attached a screen shot of the 1314 software not seeing a com port at all, while device manager clearly shows it on com 2.

What else should I be trying?
Attachments
com port issues.png
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby Burgerman » 29 Oct 2021, 23:32

Go to device manager. At the menu at the top choose SHOW HIDDEN DEVICES.
Now start at the top, go through every device and delete every last one that is greyed out. Its safe. All of those are devices not connected.

Restart.
Try again with installing your driver and running the software.


Alao, What does this little program say? You need to run as administrator to actually change stuff.
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby FL1PP3R » 30 Oct 2021, 00:15

Thankyou for your help Burgerman, I've deleted all of the greyed out items in device manager, uninstalled the driver for the A1+ USB-CAN, restarted my pc and ran the program you provided, unfortunately it hasn't fixed my issue. Hopefully someone can spot something in the attached image I need to fix.
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com port issues.png
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby woodygb » 30 Oct 2021, 00:45

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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby slomobile » 05 Nov 2021, 13:36

woodygb wrote:I can however provide instructions to reprogram a TTL-232R-3V3 to make it appear to be a Genuine 1309.
https://ftdichip.com/products/ttl-232r-3v3/


Yes, please! I'm not sure if that procedure has been posted yet, but I've not found it. Its much easier to find genuine FTDI chips quickly in the US than a specific chinesium variant. Despite the unfriendly FTDI anti clone tactics, or maybe because of it we can order direct, bypassing retailers,distributors, customs, and overseas shipping.

Will your method work with any 3.3v breakout for FT232RL or FT232RQ IC chips?

I'd like to know what specific features of the chip your method relies on. Can MPSSE be used to do the same thing? I'd like to try it with FT4233HPQ.
If it works for chair programming, that function could be integrated into a USB C PD charger/battery bank/hub/docking station. With some more work emulating different joystick modules and dongles, that would present a universal single pair of USB C ports to do anything on the chair. I'm dreaming, but it keeps me busy.

The FT4233HPQ has most of the FT232R functions plus several others. But uses external EEPROM instead of internal, and the datasheet does not contain the word "invert".
By contrast, FT232R datasheet top page says "UART signal inversion option." and page 30, table 8.1 contains default EEPROM configuration.
Invert TXD, Disabled, Signal on this pin becomes TXD# if enable.
Invert RXD, Disabled, Signal on this pin becomes RXD# if enable.
It does not contain MPSSE.
Worst case? Maybe bit bang a solution or add hardware flip flops on TXD and RXD.
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby slomobile » 05 Nov 2021, 14:41

I think I just found it. Page 6 in this thread. From 2013. Is there a better way to organize top level information found in this forum other than "Its somewhere in this thread that spans 15 webpages and nearly a decade of posts"? So Woody doesn't need to keep repeating himself?
woodygb wrote:The USB 1309 is FTDI based but it is given it's own Curtis specific VID and PID (vendor/product ID) ... USB\VID_1FA1&PID_00C8 .
It's possible to reprogram the FTDI Chip with this 1309 Curtis custom VID/PID using http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documen ... elines.pdf.

I have done this myself and although I can communicate with a controller the access level is defaulted to USER as there is still an error....this appears to be down to Curtis programming the chip with a specific I.D. identifier.



The 1309 config is also "silent" so you don't realise what is being installed as the "Wizard" display is turned OFF in a small file called DPInst.xml

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<dpInst>
<suppressWizard/>
<quietInstallStrict/>
<deleteBinaries/>
</dpInst>

This can be modified in Notepad to be ...

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<dpInst>
</dpInst>

The installation progress is then displayed on screen when you click on the relevant DPInst32 or 64.exe
dpinst.png

dpinst2.png
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby woodygb » 05 Nov 2021, 15:27

The latest Curtis 1314 software only supports a 1309 as a USB input .... the 1309 also has the access level embedded / coded into it for the latest 1314 software version.

So it is simple enough to change the VID and PID , but unless you change the other code you will only get very limited programming level access.

The chip/cable that I recommend uses a 3.3v UART SIGNAL ... a 5v UART has not worked for me.

So ...it's possible to make a "clone" of the genuine 1309 and, together with a registry hack , set up ALL access levels.

NOTE:- I will NOT reveal ALL the ACCESS levels hack codes as they are beyond the need for reprogramming a Wheelchair.

Feel free to P.M. or email me.
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Re: Q LOGIC PROGRAMMING INTERFACE

Postby slomobile » 07 Nov 2021, 19:56

Nice. That sorts out the inverted TTL for the enable 40 based chairs. From posts here, it seems like a genuine 1309 can also programs an enable 50 CAN connection using exactly the same 5 pin XLR to modular adapter plugged into the 1309 USB to modular box. Is that correct?

If so, that must mean something like a CAN - UART translator is included in there somewhere. Likely a basic character translation. Has anyone tried to program a Q logic CAN chair using the FTDI mod with a CAN translator added on? Something like this http://www1.gcanbox.com/fsd/canzxwg/272.html or a MCP2515 talking to the FTDI SPI interface. Does anyone know how the real 1309 handles both interface types?

I'm trying to avoid the need for specific unobtanium CAN-USB adapters.
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