WheelchairDriver

Been sitting on this since this summer but its so worth the wait!

Check out the NEW Permobil M3!!

http://permobilus.com/product/m3-cor..._hsmi=42545100


There is a customer base that just feels comfortable in a mid wheel drive so Permobil listened and built an amazing chair with the comforts of the F series with some great features.

Check out some of the new features!

3.2mph @ 12″ of Seat Elevation w/Full Suspension

ActiveReach Technology

ActiveReach™ technology enables you with up to 20 degrees of forward tilt. This can be used for reaching beyond obstructions, into high cabinets, or even assist in transfers.

Full suspension at ANY elevation, seating position or driving speed.

FlexLink

Suspension for advanced vibration reduction.

Caster Glide

Improved 7" caster design and adjustment-free flutter dampening device.

Come check it out at LA Ability Expo!!

http://www.abilities.com/expos/

http://permobilus.com/wp-content/upload ... terior.jpg

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Too many wheels for my liking! Forward tilt? Not sure I would like the idea. I feel uncomfortable 'flat' and generally prefer about 8 degrees tilt. or more. As seat dump.
About time they did a rear drive! At least its got central footplates.

Relate it to something you do..so you go to the pub and they dont push your drink close enough so you are able to lean forward up to that 20 degrees and now can reach things a little better!

I have 10% on my F 3 and love it!!

Great for transferring to.

Cant post a picture sorry keeps saying its to big?

Well if its the one in the link its 8000 pixels! So its big alright!

RollPositive wrote:Relate it to something you do..so you go to the pub and they dont push your drink close enough so you are able to lean forward up to that 20 degrees and now can reach things a little better!

I have 10% on my F 3 and love it!!

Great for transferring to.

Cant post a picture sorry keeps saying its to big?

Only 5 years behind the Etac e800 chairs.

Only problem there is the 3 feet of chair swinging about behind you...

Thank you Tony...I didnt mean I was sitting on the chair but sitting on being able to talk about Permobil's new chair.

http://permobilus.com/product/m3-corpus/

Found it...

And ACTIVE REACH looks scary... http://permobilus.com/product/activereach/

Burgerman wrote:

Only problem there is the 3 feet of chair swinging about behind you...

The boom is extended on that pic. They don't normally sit like that.

Boom! ?

Burgerman wrote:Boom! ?

They have a boom to extend seat forward as well as the negative tilt.

http://permobilus.com/product/m3-corpus/

Found it...

And ACTIVE REACH looks scary... http://permobilus.com/product/activereach/

I wouldn't feel safe in that! Mid-wheel drive chairs would be useless for me anyway since I have to go through gravel when going to the pub!

Steve

I get a choice. Across a muddy patch of ground as a short cut, or around a park - the long way - and so wasting drinking time! Which way I go depends on how soft the ground is, and which chair I am in.

The M5 will be out soon. It has a 14" elevator and 7.5mph speed.

Hopefully not simultaneously...

Its trivial on must chairs (but not permobil) to just turn off or change the lower speeds that the seating inhibits introduce. And I intend setting all of my inhibits to 100% speed. Often a disconnected module or seating wire or faulty limit position sensor, will stop a chair outright. Leaving you unable to get home. So disabling all such connection/position input error/slowing means you wont break down...

But accelerating while 14 inches high will result in you getting broken! So requires user common sense.

If simple microswitches are used a simple zip tie or bypass will suffice. Beware with some of the 14" elevates can be scary at higer speeds especially if you do not have any seat rear dump or seat belt. Especially when you ate stopped abruptly.

Yea I dont think the Permobil is late compared to Etac e800 chair that picture is a beast of a chair with all that junk behind you?

Having style and function I think is very important.

If that Etac works great but I cant imagine all the things I would wipe out or the way with all the sitting behind you.

I can think of a lot of things I could not fit in to also.

I understand with Permobil the inhibits are software bound vs micro switches.

I hear they have proprietary software program called Wheelchair Builder and you need with an OEM dongle and OEM software.

I remember when style was not an option and the least important thing in powerchaairs.

Function first.

I like the style and everything about the permobils other than, my pet bugbears.

1. No rear drive!!! Deal breaker!
2. Very slow actuators as far as I can tell. The reason I never bothered with things like seat lift is because its so damned slow it drove me mad. Seems still slow on the permobils. You want something from a shelf, you want it now!
3. And programming MUST be accessible to me. The end user. If I cant program the chair my way in minute detail its another deal breaker.
4. Cost

Companies that sell chairs *must* accept that some of their customers are control freaks and techies!

If they worked at THIS speed, thats great! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhXmD8yHtro
The reality is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQYtYA5nNIg About 20 secs seat lift?

Even my new Storm X-plore does it in 13 secs, and thats still 10 secs too slow!

What's the point in making a chair look nice and fashionable if it lacks performance? I prefer function/raw performance over looks.

Steve

Could have no style be designed out of brackets, and be completely unprogramable, and slower!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_P_ACosOzE

RollPositive wrote:Yea I dont think the Permobil is late compared to Etac e800 chair that picture is a beast of a chair with all that junk behind you?

Having style and function I think is very important.

If that Etac works great but I cant imagine all the things I would wipe out or the way with all the sitting behind you.

I can think of a lot of things I could not fit in to also.

I understand with Permobil the inhibits are software bound vs micro switches.

I hear they have proprietary software program called Wheelchair Builder and you need with an OEM dongle and OEM software.

What is wheelchair builder?

Wheelchair builder is a software program with in the normal program that lets you work on inhibits!


Burgerman I had rear wheel back in the day with a Pride Blast 8.5 MPH and its been the only good thing from Pride!

But FWD has worked out just as good if not better!!

Postby Burgerman » Yesterday, 18:26

Could have no style be designed out of brackets, and be completely unprogramable, and slower!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_P_ACosOzE

When it comes to your personal mobility, who would want to live on the "EDGE"

Well it certainly wouldn't be my choice. If permobil made rear drive, and didnt use custom seating control hardware/programming I could live with that at a push with a few mods like lithium and programming/tyres.

But also un-affordable...

For fancy seating, fast lift, silent brushless motors, with massively improved range, a power center footrest version of the storm 4 x-plore OR e-xplore 4 low max are the only two worth looking at to me right now. ONLY buy the brushless, and upgrade to REM550 controller. Everything you need, 8mph, immense range, for about 7k after discount inc tilt/recline/lift/power centre footplates and lights etc.

I couldn't buy a brush motor chair in 2017 because thats just stupid wasteful retarded 15 year out of date technology. And a free oem level programmer is easy! Get em while you still can. 38 miles range stock is practically double that of brushed motors. Batteries should last years! 2 to 3x that at about 110 miles with 120Ah lithium! Thats just crazy! And no motor parts to wear out. And way better outdoors than any mid or front drive. But not avail in the US.

Remember...some of us dont have the DYI talents so we have to buy what is available...

Lithium is not an answer yet for all of us yet.

With that said I dont agree I think I get far better comfort and performance with front wheel drive vs rear wheel drive options here in the US.

I think the brand also matters in that I dont have issues so far with cheap build qualities and parts just breaking or motors going out due to cheap builds from China.

OK.
Why are permobil not using brushless gearless motors? Its almost impossible to buy anything else today from any self respecting EV manufacturer. Toys, tools, boats, bicycles, non mobility scooters and motorcycles, cars etc. All brushless, like every CD player, hard disk, computer fan, and hobby plane/car/helicopter.

Silent to the point off being eery on the invacare motors, nothing to wear out, no gears, lighter, simpler, no gear backlash clunk felt on left/right or motor coupling to fail, no grease to leak, and you get almost double the range on the same junk lead battery!!! Or your battery lasts much longer. Its no longer the 20th century. Its 2017. ALL chairs should be using them. The massively heavy 200kg Storm 4 X-plore gets 38 miles/59km range on lead!

To be fair theres no Storm 4 X-plore TT available in the US. But why are all manufacturers not using these types of motors? Because to keep bringing out new models with nice build quality and fashionable looks and even fancier seating is a bit like adding lipstick to a pig. They seem to have missed the point! Same with tubeless tyres...

Its the same with lithium. Name a single EV that uses lead in 2017? No self respecting EV manufacturer uses lead or brushed motors for at least 15 years. So why are we saddled with them? Long term they are cheaper. And offer 3x the range, 10 year service life. Which is why they are in your phone, your lawn mower, your drill, your laptop, etc.

I can see that forward reach thing as potentially useful, though it is scary - unless you've got a Velcro butt... However I often find that I will slide myself as far forward in my seat as I can go in order to get that extra 6" of reach when I'm at a table or counter... Lets me use the last few inches of bench width...

In terms of looks - I'm still remembering the opinion of Sam Redman (head of Redman Power Chairs) - when I asked him, he said he was familiar with WCD, and while he didn't think much of the design (but wouldn't say why) he thought that there was nothing he'd ever seen that beat the back end of the BM-2 for pure bad-ass looks.... I agree as there is something about 12" of rubber on a 26" wide chair that gets one's attention, sort of like a top fuel dragster....

I don't like the looks of the Permobile just because they cover up all the mechanical bits, same reason I don't like the newer 'super-bikes' - performance is nice but if it's a motorcycle, I want to see the MOTOR....

ex-Gooserider

My new one tilts forwards by 5 degrees. Feels horrid. Will add two 6mm spacers under complete mount. To level the seat, or 10mm spacers to make it sit with some seat dump at its most forward position. Then it tips back further. And loses the bit I don't use. Also means I can move the seat further back as the footplate wont hit the wheels at ts most tucked in position.

I don't like the looks of the Permobile just because they cover up all the mechanical bits, same reason I don't like the newer 'super-bikes' - performance is nice but if it's a motorcycle, I want to see the MOTOR....

Do you mean that chromed ditch pump that makes more noise than power?

1st time I rode one, 1340, I pulled away at what I thought a steady rate, to a low speed and then let go of the clutch. Thought I would accelerate. Nope, I already had. That was it, out of revs/power. I had set off at max rpm, and there wasn't anything left to go! I was at what felt like walking pace. I was genuinely shocked at how hopeless it was. I thought there was something badly wrong with it. Torque was great I was told. Is it really?

Stuck it on the dyno for fun since I had one. Max torque 76ft-lb. Max HP = 52 rear wheel all at about 4 rpms... And its double the weight of a big Japanese bike with 3x the power so 6x slower.
A 1200 suzuki bandit from 96, parked on my drive, unfaired sit up and beg de-tuned as a naked town bike is smaller capacity makes more torque than the hardly does, and has exactly double the horsepower - rear wheel because it makes that torque at higher RPMs.
A gsxr 1100 WT makes 140 hp rear wheel. In 1996... Both have half the weight.

Torque is no use without RPM, because to go the same road speed you must use higher gearing, which reduces torque at the wheel where it causes motion... Which is why torque x rpm = horsepower. And it doesn't have a lot of torque. It feels like it does only because theres no rpm range to speak of.

Stock bandit below. Caused my paralysis etc! Hooligans bought these because they wheelie, stop, turn, rapid revving motor, loud, good brakes, wide tyres, and go 145mph and run 10.4 on a quarter mile. And because its a GSXR engine easily tops 180BHP or 350HP with a turbo...
And you can see the engine...