polishing the turd!

[duke1]

rest of pics

[duke1]

and the last

thanks for puting up with me,peace
evo stick buz is awful!!!!!!!!

[Burgerman]

Your width measurement must be wrong.

145 TYRE + 90MM MOTOR + 275MM BATTERY + 90MM MOTOR + 145 TYRE = 754MM Width even if all these components were actually touching. with just a tiny 5mm gap between battery and motor thats a fraction over 30 inches wide with your 2.5mm tyre gap.

The battery can be replaced with any group 24 battery. It will be 15mm less long. So MK gel 74Ah.

[duke1]

Your width measurement must be wrong.

145 TYRE + 90MM MOTOR + 275MM BATTERY + 90MM MOTOR + 145 TYRE = 754MM Width even if all these components were actually touching. with just a tiny 5mm gap between battery and motor thats a fraction over 30 inches wide with your 2.5mm tyre gap.

The battery can be replaced with any group 24 battery. It will be 15mm less long. So MK gel 74Ah.

hi it was 60cm wide as standard hence the very tippy feel to it anywhere uneven also being topheavy did it no favours,either way it still fits through the doors which is the main thing and it is now far more suited to tinas needs and if needs be can still have standard size wheels for indoors which was reason for using stock hubs as they fit both now just need to get christmas over before i can afford new lead bricks,cheers

[Burgerman]

Sonnenschein used to do MK equivelent 500 cycle batteries, called A500 dryfit Gel. They do not seem to offer those today, so are selling the nastier A412 version. It has a lower cycle life, and a higher resistance (impedance) and can only be charged slowly. So those batts are rubbish anyway. The MKs are way better, and will give around 35% to 40% more range.

But for the same money, you could get double the range with 100Ah lithium, and allow you to move motors inboard to get width down to 24 or 25 inches.

[duke1]

Sonnenschein used to do MK equivelent 500 cycle batteries, called A500 dryfit Gel. They do not seem to offer those today, so are selling the nastier A412 version. It has a lower cycle life, and a higher resistance (impedance) and can only be charged slowly. So those batts are rubbish anyway. The MKs are way better, and will give around 35% to 40% more range.

But for the same money, you could get double the range with 100Ah lithium, and allow you to move motors inboard to get width down to 24 or 25 inches.

hi bm and all well yesterday was spent refitting the tyres on to the rims using continental tyre adhesive sealer it stinks like evo stik on steroids but i left tyres after i finished at 24 psi and this morning still bang on 24psi so let them down to the operating pressure of 5 psi and i layed tyres on the floor and stood as hard as i could on the tyre sidewall and all stays put,so released all the air and did same again but this time using the 10lb rubber thor hammer all stays put perfect,so pumped up again and fitted and if tyre needs taking of again im informed a normal tyre machine can still remove the tyre no problem.
also ordered the 250/280 4 tyres for the front should be here early next week and found a set of wheels in my spare parts bin and gave them a jolly good clean and coat of black paint as they was horrid grey things they are suitable width if tyre is anything like the size it says when it gets here,nominal tyre sizes suck big hairy balls!
i have decided on the haze ev batteries and in 2 months should be able to afford them its damn annoying the old ones are toast and even not under load with chair of floor the lights go down real quick so not even a quick run round the block !
question is there any such thing as proper tubeless tyre in the 3x4 size? the rims i found in scrap pile are solid and look capable of accepting a tubeless valve and if i can find tubeless for them i would far rather do so than fit tubes again? thanks for any helps,peace

[steves1977uk]

Don't think you can get 3.00-4 tyres in tubeless as this has been mentioned somewhere else on this forum, and I know BM would be using them if they existed!

Haze EV batteries are ok if you don't expect too much from them. BM tried a set and they failed on him due to an internal fault IIRC, but you may have better luck with them duke!

Steve

[Scooterman]

I've always found this shop to be good on prices. Especially if you apply these discounts codes at checkout.

https://www.mobilitypitstop.com/categor ... es/page/2/

5% DC514

10% CBS10

[duke1]

Don't think you can get 3.00-4 tyres in tubeless as this has been mentioned somewhere else on this forum, and I know BM would be using them if they existed!

Haze EV batteries are ok if you don't expect too much from them. BM tried a set and they failed on him due to an internal fault IIRC, but you may have better luck with them duke!

Steve

hi steves i found these when searching claim to be tubeless but i think maybe misleading ad as it also shows a tube in the pics,its half inch wider than standard but if genuinly tubeless i could live with a slightly pinched look but idk,any idea?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fastpro-Motorc ... NrPXRydWU=

[steves1977uk]

Here's the thing, a tubeless tyre can also be used with tubes, so maybe those are tubeless. Do your casters rims have a bead round the inner sides where the tyre fits? If they do then you can do away with the innertubes. BM or Shirley will correct me if I'm wrong.

Steve

[Burgerman]

Who knows. They are a bit hairy!

[duke1]

hi all well after a bit more diy i have the 250/280 4 tyres fitted to the turd now and there def as wide as can be fitted to the manky design standard fork should help with not sinking in the quagmire around here i had more trouble getting the tyres on the rim than the big buggers on the back! i have found a set of wheels from some sort of mobility scooter i think but they are suitable for experimenting with fitting tubeless valves and tyre to them in the same manner as the rear using the continental tyre cement and if i can make a pair work i shall test them thoroughly and report findings for anyone interested,the other experiment split rims with a diy gasket leaked at the valve and so needs redoing but did stay inflated and on the rim at 15 psi squeezed tight in the vice!peace

[duke1]

hi all some pics of the turd sporting new front tyres and wheels (wheels from scrapile repainted) had to have tubes but there extra thick ones and tyres are suprisingly thick for cheapies and have ok profile but due to the shonky design of the caster forks there widest possible to fit that i could find,also had a fiddle with some of the settings on the posh camera see if pics are any better,not sure if its camera or me as i have a continuous shake due to nerve damage so tried the anti shake setting this time and turned exposure down a bit,maybe better!
getting there not quite such a turd now! tina seems keen to try it out i just wish batteries was a bit cheaper its a big chunk of cash for us to come up with esp with the current system its hard getting the vat of the cost unless you want pay and reclaim it later which is stupid also notice in the link @scooterman left they say there is no vat relief? anyhow heres my best effort at pics,peace all

more to follow,

[duke1]

[greybeard]

Looks to me as though your turd now has a very acceptable shine. Great improvisation and persistence. Your lady should be rightly proud of you.

[duke1]

Looks to me as though your turd now has a very acceptable shine. Great improvisation and persistence. Your lady should be rightly proud of you.

hi she is worth the effort,tina that is not the turd! well i thought while i have to wait to save enough dosh for the lead bricks id get on and build a useful small trailer that will fit either the turd or tinas current chair and save her having heavy bags on her lap or hung from the back of her seat which means her lifting them,or god forbid asking for help! so the wheels are what was the front casters from the turd and frame is half a mobility scooter frame and some bits and bobs from my odd box.lots of uneeded metal still to be removed and obviously derust and paint,cheers

[foghornleghorn]

Are you going to be running it with no anti-tippers on the back?

[duke1]

Are you going to be running it with no anti-tippers on the back?

hi i decided to wait until i have everything else finished and batteries in place and then see what it balanced like and then if needs be i have a plan of how and where to fit anti tip system but if its anything like tinas gunter meier chair it will need them but as to position is the crucial bit as it has to climb a ramp into the car and cant have anti tips where they was before as it causes the chair to bridge on the ramp,crap design! i do take the gm chair up the ramp in reverse and only have trouble if the ramp is wet,peace

[duke1]

hi all well after my tina getting her chair stuck in the damn mud walking the dogs and hurting herself trying to unstick it (i been ill with pneumonia) on her own all because my damn silly dog insists he needs the middle of the park to do his business in and being a good dog owner she insists on cleaning up for him which means taking the chair in the swamp and bits of it are real deep!
so i have begged borrowed and stolen every penny i can muster and after much searching and researching here and elsewhere have ordered these
https://www.tayna.co.uk/leisure-batteri ... ine/exv82/
there slightly taller than the original but will still fit just also slightly higher ah and can be topped up when needed which i prefer to the sealed for life ones which ime on car lead bricks end up with dead cells and cooked as recombinant only works for so long and then they die because of that,the set of leochs on tinas current chair are now 4 years in daily service and have good range still due to good care as in topping up every 3 months and using a good quality 3 stage charger really makes a big difference to there lifespan,now need to save and find another 3 stage for this chair we can afford,any suggestions welcome,preferably affordable ones!

[Burgerman]

Sorry, but those are junk. You will regret. They are not deep cycle. You will get a short service life. And they are cheap generic wet acid high impedance too. So low performance, high voltage drop under load.

Also they have an excellent 4 year warranty. The trouble is it doesent cover any of the things that cause batteries to die!

What's NOT covered under the Warranty?

The warranty does not cover the following:

Sulphation (cauased by deep cycl use)
Wear and Tear (thats what a powerchair does to batteries)
Deep or Over Cycling (its a leisure battery, not a traction battery, so 50% depth of discharge, is DEEP CYCLE to them)
Overcharging (you will be undercharging in cyclic use)
Physical Damage (OK!)
Incorrect Application (LIKE traction use! You are missusing them and they will die)

So DONT mention wheelchair use, and they will replace them several times under warranty when they die in a few months...

[duke1]

Sorry, but those are junk. You will regret. They are not deep cycle. You will get a short service life. And they are cheap generic wet acid high impedance too. So low performance, high voltage drop under load.

Also they have an excellent 4 year warranty. The trouble is it doesent cover any of the things that cause batteries to die!

What's NOT covered under the Warranty?

The warranty does not cover the following:

Sulphation (cauased by deep cycl use)
Wear and Tear (thats what a powerchair does to batteries)
Deep or Over Cycling (its a leisure battery, not a traction battery, so 50% depth of discharge, is DEEP CYCLE to them)
Overcharging (you will be undercharging in cyclic use)
Physical Damage (OK!)
Incorrect Application (LIKE traction use! You are missusing them and they will die)

So DONT mention wheelchair use, and they will replace them several times under warranty when they die in a few months...

hi bm i do realise there not ideal but choices are slim on my budget and priority was to get tina safely around the park with dogs without getting bogged down in the mud and if i could have physically swapped the leochs from the gunter meier chair i would have used them but i am not strong enough to safely lift them as they are heavy in the extreme,so if these just last a couple of months i should be in a better position to afford decent mks or similar,or maybe even attempt a lithium pack myself i wasnt planning on her ever going far without me but my recent ill health has forced it to happen id just rather she had more chance of not getting stuck/hurt.guarantees are never worth paper there written on ime
peace

[Burgerman]

They should 'work' for around 2 or 3 months. But they willl give less torque than MKs. Or most batteries! Bigger Ah is only any good if you can Get it out of the battery. Since resistance increases with discharge level, and starts off too high, then they will give much less range than say a 68Ah odyssey will.

[duke1]

They should 'work' for around 2 or 3 months. But they willl give less torque than MKs. Or most batteries! Bigger Ah is only any good if you can Get it out of the battery. Since resistance increases with discharge level, and starts off too high, then they will give much less range than say a 68Ah odyssey will.

i get you,the good thing is she is very light less than 10 stone and so is the chair also we have no hills to speak of here just the odd ramp/humps and you can get a good run up at them unless people get in the way!and dod will not be great its the driving on turf that gives it the hardest time but as said anything is better than her getting stuck so if its £200 ive spunked its worth it just to get her safely through the wet weather,getting ill sucks as we normally do all outdoor stuff together i am lucky in as much as i know no person could hurt her when my mrfugly is with her he is a great guard dog sharpei x neopolitan mastiff and loves tina to bits but that dont stop him dragging her and the chair into middle of the muddy bits when he wants a shit,brakes on or not chair keeps moving! so atleast she should be able to get free of the mire easier in the turd than her heavy weight gunter meier chair,peace

mr fugly nurse maiding me!

[Burgerman]

That dog look like it crashed into something solid.

[duke1]

That dog look like it crashed into something solid.

bless him he has had a hard life,its jolly hard work sleeping on masters bed!
well lead brick came today bloody well packed took me an age to open the buggers and remove the transit caps to release gases overnight and tomorrow they will get charged together on my good charger and maybe fitted if i can summon the energy and manage to lift the buggers high enough for long enough there no less heavy than the old ones and got better handles,just a shame i can only hold 1! its good timing though as the whole area here is like a brown sludge not even much visible grass now and dont look like getting any better

[duke1]

well i checked the new lead bricks straight out the box after degassing overnight and meter shows 12.75v on both so i set them up on the good charger for the day to fully charge and stay balanced once fitted i shall leave them for a few hours,then see if the ex turd is now able to do what it failed to before! if it doesnt theres going to be a bonfire in dukes garden tonight!

[Burgerman]

They will work for a bit. Charge at 14.8V to 15V initial charge until all cells start gassing a little. Once they do, its fully charged so stop...

Then, if you dont want to keep adding water, charge often at 14.4V as if they were AGMs overnight. And if you dont want to replace them in 6 weeks, charge during the day too so they never get deeply discharged/ cycled. Theres a reason that deep cycle use voids the warranty! Keep em full to keep them working as long as poss.

Leisure batteries are only good for a weekend away in a caravan now and again. They do not do well in traction or deep cycle use. Typically 150 to 250 cycles at only 40 to 50% discharged. If cycled deeply as happens in a powerchair, you might get much much less. Wjen they screw up (and they will) take back for warranty and do not mention wheelchairs! They may then replace free. I did the same with a set of lesiure batts years back for a laugh- their batt expert told me wheelchairs were fine! They were replaced by halfords 3 times in 9 months before they refused further replacements and gave me a refund.

[duke1]

They will work for a bit. Charge at 14.8V to 15V initial charge until all cells start gassing a little. Once they do, its fully charged so stop...

Then, if you dont want to keep adding water, charge often at 14.4V as if they were AGMs overnight. And if you dont want to replace them in 6 weeks, charge during the day too so they never get deeply discharged/ cycled. Theres a reason that deep cycle use voids the warranty! Keep em full to keep them working as long as poss.

Leisure batteries are only good for a weekend away in a caravan now and again. They do not do well in traction or deep cycle use. Typically 150 to 250 cycles at only 40 to 50% discharged. If cycled deeply as happens in a powerchair, you might get much much less. Wjen they screw up (and they will) take back for warranty and do not mention wheelchairs! They may then replace free. I did the same with a set of lesiure batts years back for a laugh- their batt expert told me wheelchairs were fine! They were replaced by halfords 3 times in 9 months before they refused further replacements and gave me a refund.

good morning bm well just checked in on them and both at 13.6v so switched of charger leave outdoors to vent for an hour and then attempt fitting them been waiting for a call from a friend to come over and help do the lifting bit but i shall most likely end up doing it myself,these lead bricks are just to heavy for my one good hand,how much lighter are the lithium? i bet there easier to fit! report later,peace

[Burgerman]

Lighter?
Around 5x per Ah. But you can fit much more Ah so they are around half the weight as fitted if you maximise ah.

[duke1]

Lighter?
Around 5x per Ah. But you can fit much more Ah so they are around half the weight as fitted if you maximise ah.

after christmas i shall have a look at buying in the parts for a lithium build same type as yours for her gunter meier chair but these seem to be ok and chair switches on and everything is going the right way at the right time but steering is very twitchy i set motor comp at 40 and still a bit jerky so down to 35 for next test run,boy does it wheelie easy now! i took it out the house in profile 1 and got out to the road and straightened it up before engaging profile 3 tinas lunatic mode from when this vr2 was on the gunter meier chair and second joystick moves it was straight forward and front wheels in the air! so back for a cup o tea and a
and then go through and try improve steering a bit and turn down the lunatic mode before letting her loose in it! i got her frowning at me after test drive bringing it through the frontroom damn leaves stick to the new tyres,not my fault! .
i shall have to read your programming thread all over again as forgot most of it been so long since ive used it,cheers