Wheelchair Docking System Lowest Price? EZ Lock QLK100 etc.

[dannos85]

Ok I have had an entervan for a few months now, Still messing about with 4 qstraint strap clamps.
The car previously had the Balder clamping system in it, so there is bolt holes/threads already in the floor.
I really need a pair of the ez lock, qlk-100 or whatever is the business.


SDL, are asking approx £1800.00 per piece with fittings for 1 wheelchair.

I need 2... (3 if i include my nippi trike) I could write to a charity for help but thats extortionate wherever the funds are coming from.

Do I get a cable release or electric release, any info on this would be a big help.
Please direct me to the best place to go for a good deal on this.

[Burgerman]

Bekker mobility, make sure you mount them about 1 inch higher than stock. So the "bolt" has ground clearance. Bekker ones are alloy, and the top wears out fast. I cut a new top plate from stainless and its still as new 4 years on.

In al seriousness a bracket, a clamp (1 solenoid, a couple of bits of metal and a few bolts is worth about 200 uk pounds in reality). They are simple. I would now just make my own, after paying for one and seeing what it involved.

[ex-Gooserider]

I just got my van, with a Q-lock in the drivers position, which included the chair bracket with the bolt, an extra bracket on the chair and van floor that hooks onto the front of the chair (supposed to keep me from tipping back when accelerating?) and was told that it was $1800 USD w/ install. To put a second Q-lock in the passenger position would have been $1600 - at that price I decided we would see how bad it was to deal with the strap setup we got for free...

The above price did NOT include the cable release (which IMHO is essential, as I can't reach the manual release button from the chair) The release was an extra $200 Installed, which gave me the cable and a really big clunky looking handle to trip the release with (a real contrast to the nice neat little pad for the electric control....)

Judging by the website photos, and so forth, I think the Q-lock is the better designed of the two units, and it would be my choice assuming there were brackets for both... That said, I would agree with BM, it doesn't look like it would be that difficult to build something up for a lot less money, especially if you'd be happy with a purely mechanical setup on the latch with a cable release and no electrics....

ex-Gooserider

[dannos85]

thanks guys,
Some questions, Hopefully myself and anyone else reading will go away with a bit of knoledge.

Do bought units come with a safety certificate or anything like that?

Can anyone fit them... or is it Dealers only?

Is it legal to use a home made unit on the roads in the UK? (obviously no bodge jobs)

Do any adaptions like this effect car insurance prices?

[Burgerman]

Who knows. Look at it this way. I built my chair, and the top face of my tie down... I decide whats strong/safe and I know as much or more than anyone in the mobility industry. Tested? No idea. Standards? Usually a bit of important looking paper but ultimately meaningless. Too many variables...

My WC tie down bolt - scroll to about 3/4 page http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM-MK3- ... uction.htm

The other half on the van floor is now stronger than the alloy version I bought from bekker! So who/what knowws. As for insurance then you better ask, but they are pen pushers, so best not mention it, make sure its strong...

[dannos85]

Check this out

http://www.unwin-safety.com/wheelchair- ... ock-n-lock

watch the video, What do we think?

[Burgerman]

3 comments.

a) poor buggers powerchair was so badly programmed it went wherever it wanted rather than where he wanted. As is usual.

b) dock and lock fine, but WAY too low! My chairs have a coke can height ground clearance for a reason. I dont want to get stuck, but its better than the usual pin.

c) the cable needs to run UNDER the floor, looks terrible like that...

Otherwise yes. All much the same though. I would mount it on spacers to give thechairs more running clearance, and hide the cable under the floor. Is it cheap?

[Burgerman]

Clearance = coke can, minus the tie down bolt. Which is raised (spaced) high off the floor in the van.

[Martin O Refurbisher]

Have you looked at this?

http://www.koller.co.uk/wheelchair-rest ... -retractor

Best,

Martin

[Burgerman]

If you are a "drive from" wheelchair user, then by definition you cant stand/transfer. So how do you use these?

[Ashley G]

They are basically just inertia-reel seat belts with a karabiner on the end.

You hook them on the front of your chair as you drive-in. At that point, a solenoid is locking the belts so that they can only retract: they cannot extend. That stops the chair moving backwards.

To leave the vehicle, you operate an electrical switch on the bulkhead, to release the solenoid. and reverse out pulling the belts with you. You unhook the chair, and leave the belts there for when you return.

To use that system though, you also have to tie-down the rear of the chair.

Certainly not something you could use on your own.

Regards

Ashley

[ex-Gooserider]

Whether or not a strap setup can be used by oneself is something that depends on the setup and the person's abilities... As a para, I have pretty good trunk stability and arm / hand control, and what I've found in the para-transits is that I can (with some difficulty) reach and work the hooks and releases on the "q-straint" style auto-retracting straps on the front of my chair... I can hook and unhook the back straps, if I'm handed the hooks, but not work the retractors on the floor....

If there was a way to reliably put the hooks where I could reach them, I could see being able to use that electric strap setup, although it would be a bit of a pain - I'd rather have the Q-lock...

Of course if using them as a passenger it is less of an issue, given that in order to be a passenger there has to be someone there who presumably can help...

ex-Gooserider

[Stickauc88]

Has anyone seen the new docking system that is coming out? The website is www.radocksystems.com
It appears to take away the ground clearance problem!

[Burgerman]

No info, just a picture that tells little, and its not available.

And your email is richard and the contact on that site is rick... Spam? I will leave it and see! But it is at least related...

[ex-Gooserider]

Don't know if it's spam or not, but does look like an interesting concept... Presumably allow docking without losing the ground clearance that the pin type docking stations cost. The other use case might be something that allows docking for a manual chair?

The question I would have is how it would work if only holding one side of the chair, as it would appear to be the case from the photo?

That said, an idle thought would be to try doing a dock that had two latches, mounted vertically spaced to fit on each side of a BM style narrow battery box and that latched onto pins sticking horizontally out the sides of the box? No ground clearance loss at all, and nothing that would stick out far enough to be a problem, seems like an ideal approach...

ex-Gooserider

[dannos85]

I would mount it on spacers to give thechairs more running clearance,

Certainly a good point for use with my F55, "coke can" clearence would be a plus.

Just 1 problem tho,
I use an RGK Hi-Lite manual chair with E-Motion wheels most of the time and in the car. (plan to use both chairs in car/dock)
The footrest on the RGK is barely 2 inches off the floor, doing a wheelie over a raised locking dock is possible but run the risk of ramming my knees through the dash board of the car. haha.

Maybe if I were to get the unwins dock system, I could look into having a actuator under the F55 to raise a lock bar up/down. UP when clearence is needed. DOWN when in the car & docking. Not really realistic but this has got me thinking of a design that could work.
Would need a actuator with metal stumps either end, unlike the f55 linak ones with the plastic breakable stumps. The throw would have to be the length of a "coke can".
Imagine the bar for that unwin system on the front of an f55 frame with the ability to move up & down by an actuator... All done in 316 grade stainless of course.. THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR LOW PROFILE THINNER PARTS WITH MORE STRENGTH.

How much load would those stainless hinges (on the battery box of the BM3) handle if being used as a flat swinging arm?

[Burgerman]

Not enough to crash!

But its easy to make something that is strong with 2x 14mm roast joints... (rose joints)

[Burgerman]

I use an RGK Hi-Lite manual chair with E-Motion wheels most of the time and in the car.

Once you try a GOOD powerchair you will probably just throw that away... It doesent do anything better. Its wider, longer, less capable, less comfortable, less stable, less reliable, less controllable and less range/speed too...

Build 2x BM3s (Much better more flexible and easier than BM2s) and use lead batteries and Rnet 120 for 8.5 mph, and 13s lithiums / roboteq when you get braver for 3x the range and 15mph... Sell the manual one to someone that hasnt figured this out to fund one! Costs about the same.

BM2 is outdated. Not that much difference but just better with lower battery allowing lower seat height/angle and the big lithium option, as well if you choose. And lighter too. And more ground clearance - hence coke can... And simpler to make. BM4 will be same but with suspension as well as fat tyres, and still about 26 inches wide.

[Martin O Refurbisher]

I have been musing over how to build a better, cheaper tie down system. I'm currently looking at the arrester hook system used for restraining aircraft when landing on an aircaft carrier.

Essentially, the aircraft drops a hook which is caught and restrained by a cable. If fitted the chair with a retracting hook, and a retracting loop in the vehicle, then the system in the car can have a simple power tensioner.

I'm going to be gettign my new vehicle in about a month's time, so will have to look at this carefully, as I want to be able to lock any chair, without needing all to be adapted.

Best,

Martin

[ex-Gooserider]

It seems to me like the only way to have a "fits all chairs" approach, would be to use a tie-down strap approach. The only way I can see to do this would be to try and do some sort of electric version of the "Q-straint" style ratcheting tie-downs. I would probably start experimenting by trying to fit a solenoid to trip the release button, and possibly a very high reduction low RPM / high torque gear motor to tighten the ratchet knobs...

The other two challenges would be to keep the hooks where they'd be reachable - probably I'd attach a small size strap or rope to the hook end and fasten the other end to something fixed and reachable so that the hook can always be picked up... And to be able to attach a chair to the hooks while sitting in it, which may not have much in the way of a universal solution, as this will depend on where the tie-down points are, and how they can be reached...

ex-Gooserider

[dannos85]

I use an RGK Hi-Lite manual chair with E-Motion wheels most of the time and in the car.

Once you try a GOOD powerchair you will probably just throw that away... It doesent do anything better. Its wider, longer, less capable, less comfortable, less stable, less reliable, less controllable and less range/speed too...

Ha Ha, It is pure Junk Yes. Its keeping my muscular dystrophy at bay tho, keeps the arms moving.

I have got several F55 chair but not modified them yet, I will BM2.5 my chromed F55 frame. Just dont want to cut a section out of the chrome frame. I have some chunky wheels now off ebay. Im going to use xterra gt motors from invacare.

Off track now... Back to docking stations

[Step]

I think there's a manufacturer who solved the ground-clearance problem with a magnetic pin for the EZ-lock or comparable docking stations.

If I remember well, it used an electromagnet to hold the pin inboard to have as much ground clearance as the chair allowed.
Cutting the power to the magnet let the pin drop down to catch the docking station.
Dunno how much a permanent engaged magnet would drain the battery though...

And permobil have a retractable pin system, here's an animation: http://forum.permobil.com/templates/Page.aspx?id=3214
At a permobil price of course... check out the order form http://forum.permobil.com/upload/canada/Order%20Forms/March01_2008/21_Permolock_CAN_2008_Rev2.pdf
looks like it works with a small ram.

Looks like something the handymen here could come up with.

[dannos85]

Called Unwin's Today.

The Dock N Lock starts from £1,400.00 for the units its self, That does not include the fitting & bracket for the chair.

[ex-Gooserider]

I think there's a manufacturer who solved the ground-clearance problem with a magnetic pin for the EZ-lock or comparable docking stations.

If I remember well, it used an electromagnet to hold the pin inboard to have as much ground clearance as the chair allowed.
Cutting the power to the magnet let the pin drop down to catch the docking station.
Dunno how much a permanent engaged magnet would drain the battery though...

And permobil have a retractable pin system, here's an animation: http://forum.permobil.com/templates/Page.aspx?id=3214
At a permobil price of course... check out the order form http://forum.permobil.com/upload/canada/Order%20Forms/March01_2008/21_Permolock_CAN_2008_Rev2.pdf
looks like it works with a small ram.

Looks like something the handymen here could come up with.

It would be problematic for a BM style chair since it has a pretty large vertical part that would interfere with the batteries... It isn't a bad idea though. I'd be more interested in something that did a rotation so that the bolt would either point straight down for use, or point along the chair bottom to reduce the ground clearance. Wouldn't give as much of a reduction as the Permobil setup, but might help some... I know I'm finding the bolt on my Jazzy is a bit problematic in that it tends to snag stuff, like if I am crossing the lawn and there is a power cord laid out on it...

Another thing that might be helpful is if we could figure out a spring loaded "guard" around the bolt that would give a tapered surround to reduce it's potential for snagging, but push up out of the way when going into the docking station...

ex-Gooserider

[dannos85]

"Im dreaming of a new EZ lock!"

The car came with the Balder docking station on the floor, No balder chair in the deal though.

I could not get my RGK footplate over that so it had to be removed. 4 bolts & it was off.

excuse the grubby floor, apparently it was valeted?
I got my cleaner in with the hoover since this pic was taken

[Martin O Refurbisher]

That looks very complicated to me!

Best,

Martin

[squidge]

I have a Unwin Dock n Lock fitted to my VW Transporter for my F55 to be docked into. I find it very good, my dock was raised to accomodate the high clearance the f55 has. a plough Bar fitted and never had a clearance issue with my chair. Unfortunately i no longer have my f55 but once i save and get a decent new chair (currently have jazzy ultra 1103 not really suitable for all the travelling about i do) i will have a new plough bar fitted and my dock adjusted to fit new chair.