Help - be nice to a newbie please !!!

[Serendipidy]

Hi All and Happy New Year

As you can see from my subject line and the fact you havnt seen my name before im new and im stumbling in the dark literally in three ways 1, its 3am 2, ive just found your site and i feel ive gate crashed a bit will do the niceties tomorrow when i have a sensible head on and 3, the thing that prompted the post a quandry over a motability vehicle and low and behold here you all are, i found you by accident and i hope you might be able to help with my deliberations. So here goes ...

History - first motability car, vauxhall zafira manual changed partway through lease due to child number 4 and seat config
config did not work.
second (and best so far) chrysler grand voyager with electric doors and electric everything and auto gearbox made
life for me as a disabled person so much easier to drive. Borrowed for advanced payment (already ready your view
on this so please no telling off im a bit fragile about it) husband leaves for another woman, lease ends and i have
to choose car three on what i can afford so
third and present motability car - manual renault grand scenic, cant fault the car but am finding the manual too
difficult and taxing and as with this one and the other two i can only take a manual wheelchair out which means i
can only go out with a PA or friends or family and have to rely on them to assemble the chair and push me in it.

I also purchased a second hand WAV from ebay for about £800 an old renault but i cant drive this because its too hard it has a passanger seat and a mini seat which my 5 year old can sit on and i can sit in the back in the wheelchair properly restrained or in the passanger seat dependent who we have with us but i get car sick in the back because i have no view of the road.

This is the back ground im going to have to start a new box im running out of space how embarrasing, hope your toast isnt cold by now!!

S

[Serendipidy]

Hi if you havnt got bored already sorry about this.

I phoned motability earlier this week mainly about seeing if i could change to an automatic which we discussed and she agreed i could with a cancellation fee and we chatted a bit more and i mentioned about the manual vs electric wheelchair and she said well have you thought about a WAV, my answer was no not really we chatted some more and she thought it might be a good solution as i could have the independence of my electric chair etc and not rely on being pushed. I could transfer from my wheelchair to the drivers seat whoever was with me would put my chair away and off we would go, well that was all a bit exciting i thought she was sending me stuff in the post and i was all excited until i thought i need a WAV with 5 seats, looked on their online thingy couldnt get it to configure correctly so i called them back...

This is where it got really complicated we went through it all again he thought his collegue had mis advised me and had i thought of a drive from wheelchair WAV i thought hang on i hadnt considered a WAV 10 mins ago. So he has filled my head with nothing is impossible build wise and a drive from WAV with 5 seats is possible and then there is the grants scheme which i will almost certainly qualify for and all this would mean i could go out on my own which would be fabulous she says
[b][u]but[u][b] here is the million dollar question in your considered opinions what is the likelyhood of all of this coming off, i mean really are they really going to do all that for me just so i can go to sainsburys on my own???

What i dont want to do is get so embroiled in it that i think it is going to happen only to discover that its a pipe dream so i guess im asking for a vote and opinion however honest before i take this any further and i promise my next post wont be so difficult, hopefully lol.

Many thanks for taking the time to read and digest sorry its so longwinded and probably full of mistakes but its now 3.30am.

God bless Serendipidy

[Burgerman]

i mean really are they really going to do all that for me just so i can go to sainsburys on my own???

Well I dont use motobility, and prefer to buy my own. But others that I know have done exactly this, but it took time. Not sure how long "time" is though.

But the best way is to use a powered wheelchair, and a drive from wheelchair car. You really need to ask them about how certain, and how long though yourself. And you really sound as if you need to go to an official assessement centre to see whats available and what works best for you.

EG I drive from a wheelchair with this: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/rollx-c ... -SXT-1.htm

Ignore the left hand frive, I imported mine from the US as it was about half the cost of a UK one and I dont use motobility.

[Serendipidy]

Hi,

Thanks for getting back to me even though it was a long ramble.

I prefer to use my power chair its a moving people beatle that i purchased myself, last time i got help from wheelchair services it was with a manual and ended up having to add about 2k to that for what i actually needed.

So am i right in thinking you think a vehicle like yours might be what i need?

I looked at the motability website and as far as i can see i have 2 option with needing the additional seats for the rest of the family and they are a VW caravelle with a side lift or a chrysler voyager with a side lift similar to yours the difference between the two the VW starts the advance payment at £14k and their alternative to the voyager starts at about £24k advance payment either of which are prohibitive for me and i feel awkward asking for funds to assist at that level.

Would be a wonderful dream though.

thanks and any further advice/comments would be gratefully received

Serendipidy x

[Burgerman]

You need what you need. Go test them!

Then apply and see what they say.

There are lots of smaller drive from wheelchair vehicles. See some of the ads on my pages, or get to a mobility show or check out a few conversion companies.

Take a look here: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... -roadshow/
And here: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/accessible-vehicles.htm

[Serendipidy]

Hi

I looked at them last night hence my 3.30am bedtime thats where i got the idea for the side entry vw from i need 4 seats for the children and 1 for my PA or friend or whoever thats if im not on my own (she wishes).

Ive just plucked up the courage after the advice/support (you might not think so but a few words of encouragement really do help and remind me that my feet are still on the ground well footplates not way in the air). She asked questions and aparantly i qualify for an application form so theres a start, have to send in proof of income etc and wheelchair dimensions and if its crash tested (how should i know - does anyone? moving people beatle puma). Then i might qualify for a visit from an officer to discuss what my needs are taking into account i have children as it has an impact on the size of vehicle, doesnt she think i know that, they and all their crap sorry bags, hats, gameboys etc have been around for a while. And then IF its all agreed i can try something similar and then in 6-12 months i might have a vehicle.

All sounds pretty positive but hurdles hurdles and hurdles but if it means the ultimate then i wont know myself will i. I would love to hear any more stories/accounts from people. You might find my dumb/sarcastic questions and comments around the place (sarcastic to the industries not to you guys) i hope you dont mind. Im a bit of a tom boy which is why i got on my high horse when she dared to suggest i hadnt taken into account the extra room for the kids what did she think id do stick them on a roof rack, ive tried it, they werent keen on the flies in their teeth lol


good afternoon for now and chat later thanks agan all of you

Serendipidy

[Burgerman]

where i got the idea for the side entry vw from i need 4 seats for the children and 1 for my PA or friend or whoever

Be careful. There are many conversions, all different. Especially on the VW. Some have a complete floor drop. And any normal powerchair can be used. Some only have partial drop, needing a special low wheelchair that has smaller batteries, so is slow and lacks range. Some have only the centre section lowered. Some have rear, some side lifts, some mount underneath... Some inside. Know what you want and who offers what.

Same kind of thing with the lowered floor chryslers like mine. Some bad, some good. Some have door pillars moved for extra space. Etc. Like everything in life knowledge is power. Visit or have them visit you. Ask many questions, dont be in a hurry and NOTICE ther differences, and wqrite it down because you will forget whats what! Test. Try everything. Avoid rear door/ramp setups as it means shopping, other people cant stay in the back. So its difficult to get your own shopping, because you are driving through the luggage area.

[Ashley G]

Hi Serendipidy

Some people like the Motability scheme; others dislike it strongly.

Years and years and years ago, a Motability dealer was good enough to tell me, bluntly, that I would always get a better deal if I forgot about using the scheme and, instead, got a bank loan and negotiated a deal like anybody else, even if I used the mobility allowance to pay back the loan.

If funds are tight, you might have to persuade the bank manager (if you can still find one these days ?) to accept the mobility allowance as the source of your repayments. It used to be that the banks regarded the mobility allowance as secure as a wage - perhaps moreso - as long as it had been granted for at least as long as the life of the loan being sought.

Chief among the advantages of this, for someone such as your goodself, is the ability to find a suitable vehicle which, because it isn't new, is actually affordable. You would also have the opportunity to actually try the vehicle before you commit to it.

The downside, of course, is that all maintenance costs would be your own responsibility, unlike the Motability scheme where even the tyres are replaced for you.

It's something to think about anyway. If you do some calculations of your own, to see what level of monthly repayment you could afford, you should be able to work out roughly how much of a bank loan you might get, and thus how much you would have available to spend on a "previously enjoyed" WAV.

There are numerous specialist dealers who buy ex-Motability vehicles (with all manner of modifications) at the end of their leases, and sell them on with various warranties etc. You might find a very nice replacement for the Voyager you liked or, as I did, a very nice Kia Sedona. Leases for WAVs are for five years, as opposed to three for vehicles not a adapted for wheelchairs, so your "new" car would probably be at least five years old, but in decent condition with a full service history.

Just bear in mind though - you need to cover all your own costs, including insurance, running costs and maintenance. If the vehicle was adapted prior to first purchase, maintenance etc is zero-rated for VAT.

Note too that I am not talking about buying a car "on finance". Loans arranged through dealers are notoriously expensive. My suggestion is based on arranging a loan first, then shopping around for a suitable vehicle

Regards

Ashley

[Burgerman]

I agree. Except that in this case a free GRANT is given to cover the difference between the mobility allowance and the vehicle she really needs.

I would still buy outright though because its then YOUR car permenantly. 5 years is soon over.

[Serendipidy]

HI again

Im finding what all of you have to say so interesting and helpful when they put the thought in my head it blew my mind so much so i had trouble sleeping i had so many questions.

I have had no problems with the motability scheme so far so i can only advocate for it and seeing as i may get the majority of the grant paid i cant really look a gift horse in the mouth can I ? I did ask motability about second hand vehicles and they only have second user WAW not the drive from WAV and i did read on their website that it is possible to extend the lease on some of the vehicles and if it turns out that perfect i wont want to let it go and the ammount it would cost i am sure there will be more than 5 years worth of driving in it especially in a VW or Chrysler.

I will bear in mind all your suggestions and when i start looking seriously when it gets to that part then i will draw up a checklist including all the things you have said to look out for. My old wav, renault kangoo has a lowered floor and a higher roof the lowered floor is a pain on speed bumps but i would have thought a vw would still be too high for that to be an issue just my assumption though.

Thanks guys

Serendipidy x

[Martin O Refurbisher]

Serendipty, Welcome.

Persevere with Motability - it may not be fast - up to 6 months to get what you want is not uncommon, but consider that you have no hassle for the 5 year life of the WAV lease, then it can be renewed on a new vehicle. Grants are available to assist with the advance payments, and these come from a separate pocket, if you qualify - they will explain. First work out your requirments, check your eligibility, and so long as you receive the higher rate mobility component it does come right in the end (i'm just getting my 3rd Motobility "car", the first had no conversion, the second a crane in the back, and the latest, now at stage 2 conversion, has a Rcicon tailift and a 5 way (all power, and rear travel) seat. Allow the time, be patient, and talk to Motability - I have always found them to be very helpful, especially the grants dept at their Harlow head office.

Best,

Martin

[ex-Gooserider]

Being from the US I have no experience w/ Motability obviously... However I would point out that the Braun conversion of a Chrysler T&C (same as Dodge Caravan) really only seats 4 officially - three in the rear row of seats, and one in the passenger seat. The middle row of seats is taken out as part of the conversion to give room for your chair to make it from the ramp to the drivers seat area. Of course, theory says you can load two more folks in small chairs into that middle space, but that might be awkward...

Don't know what the UK rules are about carrying more people than you have seats, technically it's illegal in the US... Also I don't know if you could get a gov't approved extra seat that would go in the middle space. (You do end up with a good bit of space behind the rear row of seats for shopping and such) Also don't know the current ages / dimensions of your kids, but odds are pretty good that even if you could wedge them in now, they are going to be bigger in 5 years

ex-Gooserider

[Martin O Refurbisher]

Bm
For what its worth, their policy seems to be to offer a 2 year extension, so 5 years can become 7.

If you have qualified for a grant to meet the advance payment and adaptations, then likely you will do so again when it comes to renewal.

Best,

Martin

[Burgerman]

With no down payments or gaps? If so do you get the choice as to what van/car or do they decide what they think is best since they are paying? Eg if I decide on a huge monster truck???

Just trying ti figure out the rules.

[Martin O Refurbisher]

BM
Correct - No downpayments if you qualify, no gaps. You choose vehicle & colour, although they can make recommendations if asked.

Best,

Martin

[LROBBINS]

Gosh. How civilized!
Ciao,
Lenny

[Burgerman]

Looking at a 7.5 litre V8 supercharged monster truck with 60 inch tall tyres as we speak... Lets see how they deal with this!

http://www.rangerride.com/about.html

Not this, but I want to build something similar but much more attitude/HP.

And they will pay??? What if it works out at say 75k?

[phatboyroy]

Hi Seren, (that's Welsh for star isn't it?) dipidy.
Notwithstanding you being awarded a grant, I fall on the side of private purchase.

As a replacement vehicle approaches, I get my fingers and toes out. I did my maths and determined that in 5 years time when you (me in this case) give the Grand Voyager? back you'll have spent approx £10,000 a year. Because unless I’m very much mistaken £24k plus 5 years mobility and you don't end up with anything at the end seems an expensive trip to Sainsbury's.

I paid £20k for my latest (4yr old 18mth ago) GrndVoyagr and yes we had trouble which was sorted by the dealer, but assuming it was a private sale; I’d still have £30k in my pocket to repair said vehicle. Then at the end of 5 years, (or sooner as desire takes you) you still have a vehicle to sell. Which you wouldn't have if you went via motability.

Additionally, if you've taken a shine to 'your' vehicle, it's unlikely you'll be able to buy 'your own' vehicle back after the 5 years; as motability do a deal with (in this case) Chrysler whereby they get the car cheap new, on the understanding that it's sold back through the dealer network. Any dealer logs on to the ‘secret dealer web site’ and buys the vehicle, and puts it on his forecourt. Of course the dealer network is nationwide so any dealer could buy it.
If it were me looking now, I’d look around for a low mileage side ramp auto 07 coming off motability say. You'll pay 18k - £20k ish and get a good (gold 5 star whatever) warranty that covers the lot, (I’d recommend Warranty Direct - forget AA warranty they don’t cover a lot of stuff) for approx £500 -£600 a year. Warranty it year on year. You'll pay £500-£600 insurance, (Fish do a replacement vehicle - but also see LV) £150 -£250 per year on tyres if you do a fair bit of motoring, (assuming 12k – but that’s a lot really) A full set should last you 25k miles if you drive easy, say £100 a tyre at 4 tyres every 2 years, (keep £100 in your pocket for a puncture). Go to a trusted local VAT regd, (must be VAT'd to keep warranty valid) garage to do your servicing, say £300.
Of course this is with the caveat that my motoring requirements, (a gentle 6k a year) may not match yours.
Also as Burgerman says, rear rampers ‘intrude’ into the access and luggage capabilities, and should be avoided.
I see you mentioned, Grand Voyagers. You may like to check the seating in the Grd Voyager , my previous had the 2 additional mid seats which were kept upstairs when not required, and wheeled/clamped in place when needed. You could seat 7; including me upfront pax in elect wheelchair and scary wife as driver. I’ll warn you it’s not an easy task wheeling these extra 2 seats in place, a delicate flower, (my dear lady) wouldn’t be able to do it they are sodding heavy.
So instead of £10,000 a year you'll pay
£500 -£600 warranty (relative peace of mind sorted)
£600 - £650 insurance
£300 servicing
£250 tyres
You’ll have spent £2.5k and change a year, (bank manager happy)
Take me on holiday with the other £7k. ish (me happy - sorted)

Be well
Roy