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I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 10:30

I rang "equipment" at the NHS to come sort out my air bed. Having burned a hole in it during the foot / oxygen fire thing. Dont ask. I am an idiot. Air beds dont work well with large holes in them.

While aranging when they will come and fix, I somehow got roped in as a volunteer to help them sort wheelchair programming and rehab options and problem solving etc on powerchairs. Since they know what I do at home. So now forms on the way to sign me up as a volunteer. I have been volunteered... And will get a card/badge. I am one of them?! :cussing

Seriously that probably one of their better decisions. Normally the WCS hate me as I took the piss out of them for decades, and started this pilot £££ scheme they all hate because I proved how useless they were to the higher ups in government. Which went down well. Now it all depends who you speak to. Some people do have a brain even in the NHS. Hard to find but now and again. This will help them in the WCS as they are frankly useless, and their end users too, with complex programming problems that the WCS cant fix/understand etc. And wont hurt me any. So why not.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 11:09

Fabulous! Just the thought of an old lady in a nursing home now being able to wheelie across the day room. It's got to be worth the occasional rogue programme on someone's chair just for shíts and giggles. That said, the 120A modules will be scarce on the chairs provided unless a private upgrade.

Ask for Burgerman on your identity badge! :mrgreen:
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 11:17

Heres a thing. If I am asked to advise they WILL be using 120A modules. And 4 pole motors. Thats half the problem.

If programming existing chairs then if torque or lack of ability to do thresholds or turn in place controllable or curb climb then my written report will always explain that the assessor picked inadequate motors and controller power. This is exactly the stuff they just dont understand. Then next time... They might get it right.

But with 4mph gearing the typical low end controller and 2 pole motors is usually just about adequate. And they only pay for 4mph gearing. And no lights. Thats why the voucher scheme and the powerchair budget is essential. It gives the options list to YOU.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 11:25

For e.g. If a user wants to pay to upgrade to the 6mph version, which by law has to have lights, with their own money. Then they will do the cheapest 2 pole option. I will explain that this reduces torque by some 33% and that its a bad idea unless they also change to 4 pole and a more powerful controller at the same time. Which bumps up the cost severely.

But then both the wheelchair services AND the end user will know why. Allowing them a better and more knowlegable choice. A 7 stone person may get away with not doing this. A 20 stone user certainly wouldnt.

I think that the problems they are talking about are more complex rehab programming rather than the basics though. Making a chair usable with head controls or inventing alternative systems etc.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 11:30

Good luck with telling them they'll be needing 120a modules and 4 pole motors. :lol: Can you imagine the amount of work you'll be doing because let's face it, most times you'll want to recommend the 120/4 pole for ease of use. Programming doesn't have to be flat out either and can be wound back nicely but still have the optimum turning, climbing and directional steer capabilities. They're going to love you! :mrgreen: I'll give it a month until you're :ak47

:lol:
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 11:32

Burgerman wrote:I think that the problems they are talking about are more complex rehab programming rather than the basics though. Making a chair usable with head controls or inventing alternative systems etc.

Yes, I think this is more the case than spending their annual budget in 2 months. :lol:
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 11:50

We will see. I dont think they even think about their annual budget. They are just ignorant of why you need various components. They also fixate on 4mph no lights. Thats their remit. If you want outdoors (6/8mph and 4 pole/120A needs) that should come from your own pocket**.

The idea that you need 1 chair that can be used in and outdoors. They dont really have one. In my case they go with their proposal to a meeting of higher ups, doctors etc for approval and when money released they send it to me. Takes them nearly a year but we get there.

However the affore mentioned motor/controller and bigger batteries, bigger wheels/casters and suspension etc is not what they are paying for. Because the gov already hands out a mobility allowance of £62.25 a week** to pay for out of home getting around. They provide primarily for INDOOR only use.

So this means you have the money to buy an outdoor capable, possibly also rehab style lift/tilt/legs/recline/lights/suspension, bigger tyres/batts etc for OUTDOOR use. The problem arises when you cant use 2 chairs as you cant transfer so need 1 chair that does all. NOW the budget makes sense. I can mix their money with mine** and have around 10k** +6k*** to spend every 3 years. On one single fits all use chair. And a backup.

**Thats approx 10K every 3 years of the gov Mobility Allowance.
***Thats 6k that I agreed every 3 years with WCS on my budget to suit MY needs.

And thats almost 3 high end Salsas and 4 Q700R chairs the way I am buying them... And I still have them all afterwards too.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 12:20

They'll always potentially be a gap uncatered for. Those that spend their Motability on a vehicle won't necessarily have the funds to put towards a more suitable chair. They'll have a vehicle and a largely inadequate chair but in the eyes of the WS they have a chair and goodbye. Unfortunately that's life, you can't have everything you want even if it would enhance your wellbeing and lifestyle. WS provide the bare minimum and that's it.

Even if they offer you the equivalent cost to them in cash to source your own it'll be far less than retail. Someone who needs a chair with say recline and tilt will be offered £2700. That doesn't buy much privately of course but it's what a Salsa with tilt and recline costs WS.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 12:41

Those that spend their Motability on a vehicle won't necessarily have the funds to put towards a more suitable chair.

Well thats their own stupid fault! Its a rip off. As an ex business man I look at that motability scheme and laugh. Its like buying your washing machine or sofa on HP. Or worse leasing your TV.

But if you choose to spend your mobility alowance of 15k every 5 years on a car thats your choice. Its intended to be used however you wish. After wasting it all and cant afford to add a little to get a chair then whose fault is that?

The WCS remit is indoor only. Thats a cheap 4mph low power chair with no suspension/lights and small battery etc. The cost of an outdoor chair is supposed to come from your mobility allowance. If you use a little common, it does both car and chair. Solution: do not keep on signing up to a massively overpriced car leasing scheme that gives you a new car every 3 years that nobody needs. Thats throwing away money. Even so that remit allowed me lift/tilt/recline/centre powr legs/jay2 cushion/etc. And 5.7K TOO THEM and so to me.

I bought my van by saving, 14 years ago. Imported from the US when there was 2 dollars to 1 pound on purpose. 30k delivered and configured. Thats 2k a year... Its as new even today. I did the same on the previous one which sold for 15k residual as new. The last time I spent anything on a van was 14 years back! Meanwhile I also put some away towards a new one for 14 years...

And still buy 12.5k Q700R chair for 4.4K unused, and paid 6k for a salsa with everything brand new. In 6 years 2 new chairs. Both with warranty. And still have money left over from that. Its all about how you organise yourself. And what good or daft choices you make. If I can have vans, chairs, and all the rest so can anyone else as I live on the same amount that most severely disabled do. I have 2x new chairs (retail 10.5 and 12.5k) and a polished vehicle. Its all about choices. Make the wrong ones and you wont manage well.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 12:51

You write this everywhere though, BM, and it isn't necessarily the truth in so much you had the money to buy your van from somewhere initially. You didn't save up your Motability money to buy it or you'd have been without a van for years. Buying your own van is something most will never be able to do so they do give up their Motability allowance for a new vehicle every 3,5 or 7 years.

I hear what you're saying but it is somewhat blinkered.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 13:07

You write this everywhere though, BM, and it isn't necessarily the truth in so much you had the money to buy your van from somewhere initially.


I saved it. And already had some savings. And of course my existing car. And then topped those figures up by selling my existing extremely well maintained polished car. I used that car (ford granada scorpio V6 by transfering from a manual chair) and sold it in 98 when I could afford a van. What a relief. A VW Caravelle. Remember that because I never lease or borrow to buy anything. All my vehicles have value when sold. My VW van was 30k new, sold 10 years later for 15K as new. My black chrysler van then only needed me to save 15k towards its 30k cost. Saved in 10 years while I had the red VW. And I have been doing the same now for 14 all over again...

So no not at all unrealistic or blinkered just reality if you organise yourself. It takes discipline. It takes thinking. And it takes a little effort to keep your old chairs and vans like new so they hold value when you sell them on. Esp cars/vans.

This one is 14 years old.

The ramp isnt even dusty. As new. Underneath, clean. Brake pipes still shiny. All engine bay still gleaming. No sign of age at all. You need a michelle!
It costs me to get it permanantly polished and clean. But not much. When it sells it will not be cheap. If I bother. Photo last year. Cant find a recent one on this laptop.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 14:07

Burgerman wrote:I saved it. And already had some savings. And of course my existing car. And then topped those figures up by selling my existing extremely well maintained polished car. I used that car (ford granada scorpio V6 by transfering from a manual chair) and sold it in 98 when I could afford a van. What a relief. A VW Caravelle. Remember that because I never lease or borrow to buy anything. All my vehicles have value when sold. My VW van was 30k new, sold 10 years later for 15K as new. My black chrysler van then only needed me to save 15k towards its 30k cost. Saved in 10 years while I had the red VW. And I have been doing the same now for 14 all over again...

So no not at all unrealistic or blinkered just reality if you organise yourself. It takes discipline. It takes thinking. And it takes a little effort to keep your old chairs and vans like new so they hold value when you sell them on. Esp cars/vans.

It takes spare money for some, not discipline. You only save if you have the disposable income in the first place. For lots of people this isn't reality and yes, for some it is but they choose to spend it on crap, have nothing to show for it and still moan they can't buy a car etc.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 14:40

It takes spare money for some, not discipline.

They get the same amount of benefits that I do. So whats the difference?
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 14:42

Burgerman wrote:
It takes spare money for some, not discipline.

They get the same amount of benefits that I do. So whats the difference?

You had a head start with previous vehicles and savings.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 14:47

Yes! Why do you suppose that was???

Which begs the question. Why dont others? Bad choices? Or it really asks when does this all begin. Well in my case I was looking after my own interests from leaving school. My mates got bikes on credit and were still paying for them 3 years later. I bought used, tidied them up, sold for profit a couple of times and eventually had brand new no credit. Same with cars. If you did not, then, bad choices with debt instead of owned outright and savings? I also bought a house at 18. To let out. Same thing. Help yourself for the future.

Remember that life doesent begin when you suddenly need a wheelchair. What you did to help yourself BEFORE that helps you enormously. So those that didnt are now in a worse situation. Whose fault is that?

But thats not the point. You can catch up. It means living within your means, buying when you can afford to do so, investing in stuff that makes your life cheaper or better off long term. And do that and you end up with a shiny new chair/van/etc. Life is one big £££ trap if you let it happen. And quite the opposite and its £ values expand exponentially if you do the opposite.

Theres 3 sorts of people in life. Those that understand maths and those that dont! :lol:
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 15:12

Burgerman wrote:Remember that life doesent begin when you suddenly need a wheelchair. What you did to help yourself BEFORE that helps you enormously. So those that didnt are now in a worse situation. Whose fault is that?

Unless of course some people are born with a disability or indeed have an accident before "life" as you put it begins. I know of a few that ended up in a chair in their late teens. It simply isn't as simple as you frequently state, BM, far from it and that is my point.

Anyway, I know you'll continue this on until you die and I have a hooker coming round in 10 minutes with a huge bag of coke.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 15:25

It mostly is. But fair enough I admit its harder for some. But you could also say if born that way has had longer to save...

All I am saying is that benefits are more than enough if you run your life properly and make good life choices. Most dont, want everything now, and paid for by the taxpayer, then complain when they cant have it.

Better a hooker and coke that than waste it.

Heres another little acorn I planted many years back. Long since paid for itself. Now it means I am around 550 uk pounds a year better off than someone who did not plant that acorn. Thats 2500 towards a new chair every 5 years. It pays 2/3rds my power bill. For free. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/solar-p ... riment.htm
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 18:56

Burgerman wrote:It mostly is. But fair enough I admit its harder for some.

That'll do me.

I agree with the rest too.

Also, a good read that solar page was. Is it still performing like it was new or have you witnessed deterioration?
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 19:05

I have improved a couple of things, working better than ever. Since its long covered its cost, its just free power. Right now its 7pm and I am still generating way more than I am using. Overall it makes around £550 worth of electricity per year. For free. So thats 550 in my bank.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 19:07

Excellent, free is good and a paid off gamble/experiment even better.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 19:19

I do this stuff all the time. The latest one was that I just bought a 3k laptop that was a real fell off the back of a truck job. And it was also run over. I looked at the pics, read the description, looked at what he did for a living (resells dell factory boxed up laptops) decided that the seller was an idiot. He was selling a non working for spares or repair laptop with 3 faults that did not make sense. He didnt know what he had. So I offered 350 against his 500 starting bid. He refused for a month. Then I emailed him and mentioned that the said "faults" required a motherboard, at 1k, which was correct. He agreed to my price.

I was right he was an idiot. The only think wrong was it was a "new" and perfect dell rugged high spec touch screen one with GPS, Mobile internet, 16gb ram, 1TB nvme disk etc. The faults were that he was trying to make it run with a micro SD card in the sim card slot...

The whole this is damned near perfect with the only damage of mark of any kind being on the rear magnesium cover. Since replaced for 14 us dollars. A factort refurb, of a 3k laptop without so much as a spec of dust with high spec for 350+ 14 for a rear cover that was slightly damaged. I cannot distingiush it from my own brand new one. Other than it was TEN TIMES cheaper. So now I have 2. I could ebay that in a box as a dell refurb, new. For 2k tomorrow.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 19:28

Certainly your gain! I doubt you'd sell it though but you have a decent laptop for base money that is as good as having ready cash should you need to sell.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 21:37

With computers the time to sell is while its a current new model. In a few months it might not be. I am doing someone a favour instead.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 22:11

It is but only if you don't need it. If it's surplus to requirements cash it in.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 22:45

What happened was I already had an olde but good computer. The 5 year dell warranty was up in a week so I called dell who turned up to replace the dodgy mouse button... And they replaced the whole damned thing in parts other than the bottom case, battery, and keyboard. Which was new 4 weeks earlier!

So that left me with effectively a brand new 2k carbon shell 13.3 inch 4k infinity edge 7370 business laptop. They even left a new charger just in case! So now no need for a new one. But I had already ordered a dell rugged at 2.8K. So thats 2 computers.

Meanwhile I put in a punt for the one that was meant to be spares or repair. And won. Why? Because it was way too cheap! And another rugged one so parts. Turns out that its as good as my already new one. Mint. Unused. A factory refurb. So thats 3. All happend in the same week. I am still confused! :clap
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 26 Jul 2021, 22:52

A half decent week then. :shock:

51 more of those and you won't need to volunteer. :lol:

Can you imagine now though the hardest part of your new venture will be dealing with and just being around those very people we don't like. The experts of the wheelchair world because they've been on 2 separate day courses. :roll:
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jul 2021, 23:32

I know. I have spoken to them in the past. The ones (the nice ladies) that are OTS and WCS experts are frankly totally clueless. They learn a thing or two about sores, and seating and it appears thats where it all ends. They see a chair as some fancy pressure sore preventing seating, and the chair part is just the bit they need to order to fit the seat.

As for their engineer he is at home fixing punctures on manual chairs. Or ordering the wrong parts for a powerchair. I dont think they realy see that many rehab style chairs. But with a little gentle education I may be able to make them understand a few basic things. I hope. That will be much betterv for the ignorant masses that just want a powerchair that works. Because they will hopefully understand what they are actually ordering. A little explanation in the right places may work wonders.
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby F55 » 27 Jul 2021, 00:05

You could then do BM on tour visiting all WSs and maybe next time round for a chair we get 120A and 4 pole offered. :lol:
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby Burgerman » 27 Jul 2021, 04:18

Who knows. Wasnt that long ago one of them was telling me to run the lead bricks flat before charging because of them having a memory...
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Re: I have been upgraded...

Postby biscuit » 27 Jul 2021, 09:56

I somehow got roped in as a volunteer to help them sort wheelchair programming and rehab options and problem solving etc on powerchairs.
Very good. Nice if WCS learns something about power wheelchairs. Certainly I have learned a huge amount from your forum and website. Hopefully the equipment dept can pass on the understanding to other areas. Or perhaps you do some travelling around the country to teach them, Burgerman.
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