computer build - itx - pci 3.0 ?

[expresso]

i am trying to weight in what really matters -

i want small light case when done - fast and cool

i want to try AMD - 8 cores of course - which ever way i go - unless intel comes out with something really worth it -

i am leaning on AMD - for better or worse - pci 3.0 - with M.2 - is very fast - now pci 4.0 - is it worth it ? it costs about $60 more per 1T stick

i am limited with MB mini itx - and also the Chip itself - new 5700G amd - has on board - i like that at the moment - no card - which costs too much now - i dont game - at the moment - i may not need it -

does not support pci 4.0 - looking to add 32 gig ram - not looking for OC - but will play a little once i get used to the new bios layouts etc, and learn about it better -

intel is easier to OC - but runs ALOT hotter - mini itx case - i like a Air cooler - no hassle - very quiet - and keeps it cool also

only Con i see is - its huge compared to the MB and case etc -

i dont want to make a choice based on the PCI 4.0 alone - that would make me change chips - etc cost more - is it worth it ?

i am coming from a 3rd gen intel - with WD black HD - big - slow compared to SSD now - and heavy - i wont add any inside my new case - just M.2 drives - and SSD drives -

also is it worth going to x570 vs 550 boards ?

[Burgerman]

Of course you do understand that with an 8 core modern fast CPU there will be literally no time ever that you will be using the whole thing at max frequency and heat?

99% of the time you will have most cores idle at 2% (and 2 percent of the heat). And a couple at up to 6 or 10%... So the fact that intel makes a little more heat is practically irrelivant. Unless all you want to use it for is synthetic benchmarks designed to max out all cores at 100%.

Modern CPUs and bios run each core at a different voltage and frequency depending on load. And throttle the thing accordingly. Per core. So right now my laptop has 3 cores and 6 treads running at around 800mhz and at 0.6v and only one core running at around 2ghz. And at a slightly higher voltage. ALL cores can run at up to 4.2ghz. And at elevated voltage/current. But I have yet to find anything in the real world other than benchmarks that even wake up half of its real ability. So instead of making lots of heat and needing lots of watts, it barely uses any. So the heat problem you are imagining with intel is never going to happen. UNLESS you are gaming with a modern 4k display or doing 3d modeling etc. recoding a movie doesent happen for long enough to matter because of thermal mass. So you are failing to understand what makes the heat and how powersaving actually works. So unless a gamer, or wanted it just to do benchmarks all day long then intel/AMD are both great options. Heat will not be any kind of problem with either of them.

[expresso]

i understand just fine - how it works - heat is an issue when its used more - i watch the core temps - i see them working -

i can see when its 100% 50% 20% during converting etc, files - videos - not ripping a CD - thats nothing - havnt done that in years

they do max all cores - 4 core at current - so yes it does - not all day long of course - max now is about 65C - with the new larger cooler

air cooler - thats how i like it - i dont like seeing 90C dosnt matter if it can handle 100C -

cooler the better -

yes i dont do that all day long - so it wont be maxed all day long - even so - if i can choose i rather keep it cooler - means i can use a small Air cooler also - since it will be in a mini case -

little things matter -

if a cooler says its capable of 200 TDP i think - that would suggest its can handle cooling the chip - even if intel ?

this would seem more than enough to cool a 65 watt chip - thats how i like it - cooler if i can

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B07BYP9S95/ ... _lig_dp_it

[Burgerman]

they do max all cores - 4 core at current - so yes it does - not all day long of course - max now is about 65C - with the new larger cooler

air cooler - thats how i like it - i dont like seeing 90C dosnt matter if it can handle 100C -

cooler the better -

2 things. Your current heat is because old inefficient CPU. New one does 3x the work for the same power. So you cant compare.

And the fact that they are designed and perfectly safe at 90 or 100C means that cooler isnt better UNLESS that heat causes it to throttle. And it wont. What you will be doing to it means it will barely ever see 100% speed on more than a single core for a few secs at a time. Like I say you take minute details and blow them out of all proportion. The only time you will need to dump all that heat is if all you want it for is to run benchmarks. Most of the time it will be under 5% cpu at reduced frequencies. You dont seem to get this. And now I am done. No point because nothing sinks in!

My LAPTOP has a 15 watt CPU and a 35 watt GPU. So it dumps all the 50W heat it can generate via a minute cooler and an inaudible 1 inch fan... If running burn in tests it reaches 100C just about. Thats fine. It doesent cause it to thermal throttle. And the laptop itself only gets slightly warm. No problem Thats how its intended to work. If I set it to "quiet" the fan is all but silent. IF running benchmarks and burn in tests it throttles. In normal use it doesent even get warm!

[expresso]

i get it just fine - and i do hit 100% when i am doing converting - - video stuff - video files - not dvd ripping

i know it wont be 100% all the time - and yes mostly it wont - but when i do use it - and its full load - i dont want to see 90C or 80C

intel run hotter - thats a fact - you dont mind - thats fine also - not a big deal

Jaytwocents - youtube - been running AMD 24/7 - only AMD now past 3 years - not that i really care - what he runs or others -

but good to know - i want to see for myself - small cool Fast -

[Burgerman]

i get it just fine - and i do hit 100% when i am doing converting - - video stuff - video files - not dvd ripping

On a CPU from the last century!

Things are different. You fixate on the wrong things. For the wrong reasons.

i dont want to see 90C or 80C

Why? Serious question. I see that all the time for 7 years on my desktop machine running at an overclocked 5.2ghz. Why would you care? It safe and meant to do that. It doesent start to throttle untill 100C and it never reaches that even with a crappy air cooler.

CPU frequencies have been irrelivant for a decade. If you actually manage to make it throttle slightly by converting a video (why are you doing that in 21 anyway?) it wont make a blind bit of real world difference. Never mind I give up.

[expresso]

you give up - i gave up already


i shall see when i build my AMD - mini itx - winter time - i dont care for the latest and greatest - i will go with the 5700G - as of today

would be a killer CPU - going from what i have now to that - forget the video card - i want to see how it works without one - i bet it be just fine -

32 gig ram - M.2 - and SSD - - Air cooler so far - Quiet - fast and Cool - Small also - heaviest part my be the PSU - and case itself - only 12 lbs

will add some LED RGB inside - cant hurt

[Burgerman]

Anythng half decent made i the last 5 or 6 years will murder anything you can find for it to do. So it doesent much matter what you buy.

But more importantly you will want to read up about exactly what TPM2 and what Secure Boot is.

Heres the issue. You will want windows 11 right? Its a free upgrade from 10. And that includes illegal copies... Since in a couple of years support for windows 10 ends.

But unless you UNDERSTAND what TPM2 is, and what Secure Boot is, how to use it and turn it on, and how to set up windows from a UEFI bios etc it will not let you install it. Now there are "ways" to do that without TPM2 and Secure Boot, as long as you are capable of a little hacking and making your own windows 11 install disk from a windows 10 iso, and a little registry hacking, at the moment. That may not be the case on final release. So you *MUST* make sure your new motherboard has both a TPM2 chip, and Secure Boot / UEFI boot capability (and non of win11 works in the bios old legacy systems) when you buy. That may or may not be easy with a smaller board. I have not looked. Be careful what you buy. There are many boards around that are NOT windows 11 capable.

[Arima]

you give up - i gave up already

i shall see when i build my AMD - mini itx - winter time - i dont care for the latest and greatest - i will go with the 5700G - as of today

would be a killer CPU - going from what i have now to that - forget the video card - i want to see how it works without one - i bet it be just fine -

32 gig ram - M.2 - and SSD - - Air cooler so far - Quiet - fast and Cool - Small also - heaviest part my be the PSU - and case itself - only 12 lbs

will add some LED RGB inside - cant hurt

Whats your budget...and which case are you looking at using?

Picked up a Lenovo office desktop sff...added an ssd, 1030 graphics card, and a wireless antenna for $250 total. Seems to run WarThunder ok...it can get chunky at times on my apartment public wi-fi. I didn't know I was a masochist but this game brutally kills you and for some reason I keep going back. I have a sim file from BM but I should have bought a bigger ssd. I really had no idea how much space the games on Steam needed. At least I now have a case the size I like for any future builds.

[Burgerman]

When you say SSD are you alking about old style ones or the latest M.2 NVMe ones? Those dont cost a lot more but do 3 or 4 gigabytes per second instead of 2 or 300 megabytes.

Also its really not worth buying less than 1TB M.2 NVMe in 2021. I have a 2TB one and a similar removable one in my laptop for eg. And those are FAST! Since the SSD or old style hard drive (I threw out the last one from my desktop 2 years back) is the slowest part of any PC then doing anything else makes zero sense. Faster processors have made no difference since 2010 or ealier. They are all massive overkill. And unless you have a 4k screen an old 1060 or 1070 card will murder games. And more than 16gb memory is just bragging. It does nothing for 99 % of normal PC usage. Even video edditing practically never needs more as it uses the swap file if out of space. And thats now on a super fast NVMe drive!

[steves1977uk]

I have 128GB RAM each in 2 of my PC's. Games like GTA V are over 100GB in size and caching some of the bigger data files into memory speeds up the loading process.

Steve

[steves1977uk]

Picked up a Lenovo office desktop sff...added an ssd, 1030 graphics card, and a wireless antenna for $250 total. Seems to run WarThunder ok...it can get chunky at times on my apartment public wi-fi. I didn't know I was a masochist but this game brutally kills you and for some reason I keep going back. I have a sim file from BM but I should have bought a bigger ssd. I really had no idea how much space the games on Steam needed. At least I now have a case the size I like for any future builds.

I guess this is a 4th gen Intel system or thereabouts? Off-lease PC's can be had cheaply, but can't be upgraded much.

Steve

[Burgerman]

https://www.howtogeek.com/245245/how-mu ... -pc-games/

And have a read. 16gb is enough for gaming with only SOME games ever needing more. And with fast scratch disks on fast ssds or nvme drives the actual gains you get even on those are minute. Nothing you could detect.

Plus to take advatage of super high frame rates your 60hz monitor that expresso wants to keep would need a serious upgrade anyway! And he doesent even play games. Or have a high res monitor...

[Arima]

When you say SSD are you alking about old style ones or the latest M.2 NVMe ones? Those dont cost a lot more but do 3 or 4 gigabytes per second instead of 2 or 300 megabytes.

Guess it is old style ssd. The pc is from around 2012. There are no nvme slots on this old motherboard. Can't remember all the details but I think the Northbridge/Southbridge will limit current modern ssd.

I guess this is a 4th gen Intel system or thereabouts? Off-lease PC's can be had cheaply, but can't be upgraded much.Steve

Third gen if I'm not mistaken. I'm very surprised how well it works. Might bump the memory up to 16gb otherwise can't think of a reason to upgrade right now. Maybe as I play more titles, this is my first gaming adventure. And my gameplay suck's! Finding myself spending a few hours everyday on the bed to rest my rear. If I put the display on the floor I might be able to play while laying on my belly. I'm curious about a gamepad controller like these. Clubbing my keyboard with my bad paw feels like my weakness.

https://www.amazon.com/Redragon-K585-On ... 9592312419

[Burgerman]

I use my RC transmitter. Up to 16 channels and a USB/GAMING RECIEVER thingy. So no wires. And really low latency.

[steves1977uk]

Just upgraded the fans on my Mugen 5 from a single fan (800 max RPM) to two fans in push-pull config, the fans max RPM is 1500.

Check my temps now... Cooler than yours expresso! This was running Prime95 for about 20 minutes.

See it's possible to cool at hotter CPU with the right setup.

Steve

[Burgerman]

Why?

[steves1977uk]

Because the stock fan isn't adequate for an i9-9900KF, since it was throttling back when it hit 100C. So upgraded fans cured that problem.

Steve