Win 10 LTSC - ?

[expresso]

i knew she would do this - with the old system case was too tall - now its smaller - she has room to hang out - but its at night is when she goes to work on my desk -

[Burgerman]

Beats me how you can be happy looking at its butt. And the cats butt.

[steves1977uk]

expresso needs one of those back-to-front cases where the MB is mounted upside down on the left side of the case looking at it from the front. Then he could have all the cables at the back, out of the way which would look tidier and nicer.

Here's what I'm talking about... https://graphicscardhub.com/inverted-pc-case-atx-matx/

Steve

[Burgerman]

Or organise a different place for the PC.

[expresso]

or leave it alone the way it is - it works fine for me this way - cables are in the back of the case nicely out of site of anyone walking in my room

why would i want the PC front to face me and have all the wires exposed of anyone walking in my room - backwards in this case is nicer - for a few reasons - one being the glass panel is facing me not the wall - 2, wires in the back out of site from others - and makes it easier for me to connect usb in a hub on my desk also - if it were the other way around - would be out of reach to me - eye sore when looking in my room etc,

and there is nothing in the front of the case that gets used - its all in the rear - the butt -

[Burgerman]

This threads gone quiet. He has broken his computer or ida has got him. Seems unlikley on the top floor but who knows.

[expresso]

its all good - what more can i say ?

just adjusting to my liking and making images - as i add more programs - etc, - i try to update it again -

i did take my card out of my old system - have to clean it good - fan etc, will remove clean and put back

i may add it just to see what it does - maybe - depends - was just checking the temps -

from what i read - its normal for the chip to run how mines is - maybe a cooler room would lower them some

under load - its fine - hasnt hit past 84C - at max load with handbrake - using OCCT stress - its cooler than using handbrake

idle seems a bit high but who knows - with Ryzen and built in graphics may be norm. the fans CPU is full speed - the rest are silent mode in bios -

case air is not hot feeling the rear fan air - i am using a hub - i like a nice fan software i can adjust in windows - without going in the bios -

cant seem to find one that works - i wonder is it because of the hub i am using - i know the hub works from one pin - the rest of the fans will adjust according to that one pin -

in the bios with the fans - i can use silent - normal - full - using Volts PWM - Auto - or manual - i found the manual didnt ramp up as i set them - maybe because of the hub ?

left them on Auto - silent mode - works fine - actually even on full speed - didnt change the temps much if any - so that tells me the case fans are fine

cpu cooler and fan - thats whats giving me my temps - so i leave it - or change the paste once just to see - if that does anything different

add the card maybe to play - and or get an 280 Aio - but i try the paste first one day - i hate to touch it - it looks too nice -

[Burgerman]

hasnt hit past 84C - at max load with handbrake - using OCCT stress - its cooler than using handbrake

Play games as that will use more watts. So hotter.

idle seems a bit high but who knows - with Ryzen and built in graphics may be norm. the fans CPU is full speed - the rest are silent mode in bios -

Well you dont have the thing idling properly yet do you? Its running a lot of stuff in the backgdound and so even if you configure power saving properly so it runs at low voltage and a few hundred mhz it cannot actually ile can it?

case air is not hot feeling the rear fan air - i am using a hub - i like a nice fan software i can adjust in windows - without going in the bios -

If you configure it properly once, in he bios manually, then you should never need to ajust fan speed ever again. You want everything set to turn slow. Inc CPU below say 70C. and case at whatevr works silently when idle. I mean true idle.

cant seem to find one that works - i wonder is it because of the hub i am using - i know the hub works from one pin - the rest of the fans will adjust according to that one pin -

You dont need any f that, just more stuff running all the time for nothing making it idle warmer! A self fullfiling prophesy.

in the bios with the fans - i can use silent - normal - full - using Volts PWM - Auto - or manual - i found the manual didnt ramp up as i set them - maybe

ALWAYS choose manual, advanced, in every case in everything!

because of the hub ?

All your case fans should ramp up together when you tell them. So in bios find which fan that is, make a manual curve like a step. Off or very slow at below whatever it works at at idle. And ramp up fast above this. Like a step. Same with CPU.

[Burgerman]

TEMP is irrelivant as long as it isnt getting hot enough to throttle when in use. And so to keep it QUIET you want the fans to turn slowly, esp CPU fan at anything below say 75 to 80C. And max speed above that. And configure it properly so it actually does idle and you wont even need a fan - so silence 95% of the time.

In other words, once you have your PC properly setup, it will idle at below 1ghz, at around .4V making almost no heat at all. And note that the descrete graphics, and the on board graphics are both at 0% making no heat either.

Set up properly you probably wouldnt even need a fan at all when idling. Never mind high temps!

At idle it should use under 2.4GB to 3GB mem (RAM, no activity.
0% on board graphics.
0% descrete or GPU graphics.
0% Disk or SSD access.
0% (below 0.5%) CPU access.
And be at a very low CPU voltage like 0.4V.

If its not all of those and if there are any spikes over a typical 4 minute period, then the fans will run and CPU will be at higher than idle status. So you need to configure it all properly to be cool and quiet.

[steves1977uk]

case air is not hot feeling the rear fan air - i am using a hub - i like a nice fan software i can adjust in windows - without going in the bios -

cant seem to find one that works - i wonder is it because of the hub i am using - i know the hub works from one pin - the rest of the fans will adjust according to that one pin -

in the bios with the fans - i can use silent - normal - full - using Volts PWM - Auto - or manual - i found the manual didnt ramp up as i set them - maybe because of the hub ?

left them on Auto - silent mode - works fine - actually even on full speed - didnt change the temps much if any - so that tells me the case fans are fine

cpu cooler and fan - thats whats giving me my temps - so i leave it - or change the paste once just to see - if that does anything different

add the card maybe to play - and or get an 280 Aio - but i try the paste first one day - i hate to touch it - it looks too nice -

Expresso!, you do not NEED any crappy fan control software if you configure the BIOS correctly. My ASUS boards has this built in and I disable it. As I said to you in PM my i9-9900KF is a hot CPU by design and yet it idles at 30C without any fan control software.

This is the reason your CPU sits at 4GHz at idle, because it's having to monitor the fan software which defeats the purpose of a cool and quiet system! And that's why your CPU fan is going full whack because you've set it up incorrectly. An AIO won't solve your CPU temps because you've just added MORE cooling which draws more power. Just stick the Mugen 5 on it and be done!

Steve

[steves1977uk]

I found expresso's thread on AMD forums... https://community.amd.com/t5/processors ... d-p/487081

One person is recommending BIOS defaults which is wrong IMO. These settings are not the best by far, and can be set wayyy too high.

Look at my power draw and idle speed...

Steve

[Burgerman]

I would say ignore 99% of internet experts...

I pretty much agree with what Ryzen-Type-r just posted.

It's your decision, but I would not let it alone.

An old engineering adage stated, that for every 10C you can drop the Temp on a Chip you double its life.

I believe you should take a straight forward approach and lower the Thermal-Throttle-Limit for your processor.

Then test its performance. I don't think you will lose much performance. It's those last few MHz that cost a lot in voltage and temps.

Set PBO to Advanced.

Set Limits to Manual

Set Thermal-Throttle-Limit to Manual

Set the new field "Thermal Throttle Limit" to a temperature (in Celsius) that you feel comfortable with. (Me I like 75)

What a retard. Its like we all have a daw full of worn out CPUs! He hasnt a clue.

My power draw is the same at idle on my desktop as yours, only less... It hits 160 watts+ due to overclock at all cores hammered at 100% and @ 5.2GHZ. But that seldom if ever happens in the real world. Only in benchmarks. Most of the day my high watts hot running CPU is stone cold and under 3 watts... Which is why the AMD 65 watts thing is irrelivant. How much power it really takes, on any CPU is down to the uses configuration skills. 3 watts is closer to the mark at idle. Or a little more in normal use.

Its all about complete bios and windows setup. Not how many horsepower your cooler is!

I went through the whole computer management console. The whole of the services list. The entire list of loaded startup files, every entry in the scheduler. I disabled literally hundreds of uneeded things. Undesirable things. And set many dozens to only run on demand. Services for e.h. Set to run on demand instead of automatically. And I never install mountains (or any) addon junk things that are not required like fan controllers. Unless they can be only run on demand. Dont need a service in the background etc.. Takes months to properly setup windows. Takes a week at least to properly configure the bios setting if you DO know what you are doing...

[expresso]

i dont have fan software - just the MB control - in the bios - the Fan hub - i have no choice - dont have enough fan headers on the board


Fan hub is connected to the Board header - and all fans are connected to the hub - only the CPU fan is on the CPU on the board

the case is Quiet - because of the Fan hub - when i adjust the system fan - they all get adjusted the same way - i had another fan header but it was neater to use the hub - wiring wise -

its fine the way it is - i just wanted to control it in windows adjusting instead of the bios all the time -

i disabled about 95% of the start up stuff - and down to about 60 processes running - thats all i can do - i cant dig in any deeper and do things i am not familiar with it - so it stays the way it is

Steve - do you work for google - tracking me down i have alot to learn with AMD now - if i want to - and that reset cable came in handy now -

i made a change to the power button in windows - i though it would only affect it when its on - but it didnt boot up after from the button -

good thing i had the reset - worked like a charm - i then adjusted it back - i may run another cable like that to the Cmos - i can then clear it myself easy - if i start playing around with the bios OC -

everything manual is better - if you touch or change the correct settings - intel was much easier to OC than AMD is - there are more things to know and that work together -

unless you have experience with AMD and you dont - its not the same - its all good - i love my new little case window - nice glow inside

empty open space - more than enough air in the case -

the question about the fan setup is - there is a section i can pick how i want it to work - either from Voltage - PWM - Auto - or some other one -

fan hub is connected to one fan header on the MB - and 3 fans connected to the hub - 200MM front fan - 140mm rear and top fan -

which would be better to leave it on PWM ? i have to say the 200mm front fan is a 3 pin though - rest are 4 pin

[expresso]

case air is not hot feeling the rear fan air - i am using a hub - i like a nice fan software i can adjust in windows - without going in the bios -

cant seem to find one that works - i wonder is it because of the hub i am using - i know the hub works from one pin - the rest of the fans will adjust according to that one pin -

in the bios with the fans - i can use silent - normal - full - using Volts PWM - Auto - or manual - i found the manual didnt ramp up as i set them - maybe because of the hub ?

left them on Auto - silent mode - works fine - actually even on full speed - didnt change the temps much if any - so that tells me the case fans are fine

cpu cooler and fan - thats whats giving me my temps - so i leave it - or change the paste once just to see - if that does anything different

add the card maybe to play - and or get an 280 Aio - but i try the paste first one day - i hate to touch it - it looks too nice -

Expresso!, you do not NEED any crappy fan control software if you configure the BIOS correctly. My ASUS boards has this built in and I disable it. As I said to you in PM my i9-9900KF is a hot CPU by design and yet it idles at 30C without any fan control software.

This is the reason your CPU sits at 4GHz at idle, because it's having to monitor the fan software which defeats the purpose of a cool and quiet system! And that's why your CPU fan is going full whack because you've set it up incorrectly. An AIO won't solve your CPU temps because you've just added MORE cooling which draws more power. Just stick the Mugen 5 on it and be done!

Steve

CPU fan goes full because i set it to go full in the bios - i dont have fan software installed or running and it dosnt sit at 4 ghz at idle -

i am done - its all good for me - it only bothers you guys now -

[steves1977uk]

And why did you set it to full speed for??? It's supposed to slow down when the CPU is hardly doing anything.

Steve

[steves1977uk]

fan hub is connected to one fan header on the MB - and 3 fans connected to the hub - 200MM front fan - 140mm rear and top fan -

which would be better to leave it on PWM ? i have to say the 200mm front fan is a 3 pin though - rest are 4 pin

expresso, when you use a fan hub, you're supposed to have the same sized fans connected to it otherwise they'll be spinning at different RPMs. That's the drawback with ITX systems, you are very limited to what you can connect on the MB.

Steve

[expresso]

I wanted to set it full speed it's very quiet fan. U must have a hard head. Or alot of bruises u keep banging ur head

[Burgerman]

>>> I wanted to set it full speed it's very quiet fan.

But that just wastes power, fills it with dust very fast, and achieves absolutely nothing.

If you car had a quiet car engine would you have it reving at 6000rpm all day, while at lights, or while cruising at 30mph?

Thats the vary same thing with the CPU as well. Why wouldnt you want the CPU and fan to both be idling at the trafic light? Even dragsters do that! Why do you suppose they have fan profiles, and CPU speed and voltage throttling?

You have some very confused ideas.

You bought a AMD CPU because it was lower watts. And then run it at way higher watts than any intel CPU! And same with fans, you wanted quiet and then run the CPU fan at max speed to drag in a crap load of dust and make noise no matter how quiet it runs, for absolutely nothing! On my system the CPU uses 3 watts, and fans are so slow I can count the RPM by eye for 95% of the time. Thats what all that throttling/control/fan options and curves is for!

[steves1977uk]

I agree with what BM wrote, what's the point in building a lower powered system only to run it at a higher wattage? Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

I thought the whole idea of building a new AMD setup was to have more performance at less power draw? The way your running it you're not saving any power, you may as well stuck with your 3770K setup. I bet if you measured both systems with a kilo-watt meter, they would more or less be the same. I give up trying to make expresso see the point.

Steve

[expresso]

but of course - i agree with you both - no point in trying - time to move on - enjoy - i am

[Burgerman]

You have a lot to learn. Thats not the way to do it. I would say your bios, and windows is setup around 5% complete and misconfigured in many ways. But you are you. So as you wish! Its not my computer so why would I care!

[expresso]

yes - i agree - next time your in NY - you can come over and configure it for me -


you and steve should visit me one day - your love it here -

[Burgerman]

Yes for a week or two. But would be pleased to be home where its far more peaceful and more open space. Dont like big cities. Too much crime, too dirty, and no space.

[expresso]

thats all true also - i dont like it much either - its good for many reasons - i am here because of my chair - if not for that - i wouldnt be here - in the city that is

[Burgerman]

What advantages does the city have?
Where would you rather be?

[expresso]

being in a chair - its great - i can go anywhere on my own - dont need a car - you dont want one either here - you can order food 24/7

you would like that theres alot to explore if you want - but like you - i am not crazy about alot of people around - garbage - etc, i dont like public buses or trains - dont use them - doing the lithium freed me up alot - i can easily go out of the city into NJ close by - and its different there - people are nicer - cleaner - friendly

strangers say hello etc, - once back in the city - you have to watch your back - if someone says hello - he has a mental problem - haha - its different - to visit maybe its ok - to live here - besides you cant afford it - no one can - only the rich - the rest of us - have to rely on subsidized apts. which many have but hard to come by

and in a good area etc,


if i wasnt in a chair - not disabled etc, - i be upstate more - more open - homes - not apt. etc, cant say how or where i would be - nothing is cheap no matter where you go - but being in a chair - i would feel very dead if not in the city - i mean unless you have someone to ride with if not in the city -

what would you do - if you go outside and nothing is around but homes - at least here - feel a little more alive in many ways - and disgusted in other ways - i been here a little over 20 years now in Manhattan - before then - i grew up in the bronx - and it was great back then - believe it or not - its not the same now and i visited once with my chair years ago - couldnt wait to get back home

wont go again - not the same at all - but in the 70's 80's it was great - watch the movie - the bronx tale - thats it - i remember it that way - everyone knew everyone - no one locked there front doors - cars open parked on the street - if anything happened - it would be known who did it and taken care of - it was Safe and all Italians then -

now forget it - all thats left is the food - still good - i get my food from there - what can you do - it is what it is -

[Burgerman]

what would you do - if you go outside and nothing is around but homes

Other than college, schools, parks and green land, town centre for banks, shops etc, tennis, golf, bus and train stations, libraries, resturants and pubs, night clubs cinemas, the whole tourist cleethorpes beach thing, all within a couple of minutes. https://www.google.com/search?q=cleetho ... 52&bih=558

Yes you certainly have more options. Mostly stuff I wouldnt want though. But even when talking about chairs theres many things we can get that are not found in the US. Simple things like I can go 3 mins up the road to get stuff welded, or machined at the college. As long as I contribute to the tea fund! You tell me things like that are impossible. Likewise cost and flexibility of cable or broadband. Many things are better here. Esp when it comes to choice and prices of some things.

The real difference is that I have space. Enough to park around 7 cars and a garden, and 4 bedrooms. For less money than a single tiny room in a big city! And yes we can ring up a takaway and get food deliveries 24/7 too. Although maybe much less choice after 1am... Theres still a few!

[Burgerman]

Will there be cake?

If so I will be there!

[steves1977uk]

There's always cake here BM! Choc, victoria sponge, lemon drizzle, etc...

Steve

[expresso]

Will there be cake?

If so I will be there!

plenty of cake or what ever else you like - thats the good part of it - - you wont like it here - to visit in the city ok - not to live in manhattan -

you can get things done just not right in the city - you have to go to Queens maybe - alot of welding shops - car repairs etc, etc,

the city - as they call it - there are a few - but you wont like them - i dont - they have less IQ than i do - so you know it wont work -

living space - you wont have it here unless your super rich - you be fine upstate - more open land - homes - outdoor etc, - price wise - you cant compare - you pay more here for everything - but also make more also -

when i moved here - it was a big adjustment - everything in the city costs alot more for the same thing in the Bronx - or other places

food is expensive - rent is so expensive - no one can really afford it flat out unless your super rich - if i hit the lotto today -

i be gone - maybe keep a place here in the city - for convenience for a time being - but would get out - away from the city -

wishful thinking - wont happen so the best i can do is hope i always can live where i am now - till the end - not easy finding a place when in a chair - that makes it 3 times harder -

you wont like it here in the city to live - there are alot of drinking bars etc, - so you have plenty to visit - you may not like the crowds though - i dont - the less i deal with people the better -