3rd jab

[Burgerman]

Today. BioNTech called Comfirnaty. An mRNA one. Is that bad/good and why different to the previous two?

[LROBBINS]

The mRNA vaccines have been the most effective and with the fewest side effects (though none of the approved vaccines have had a high incidence of serious side effects). From basic properties of the immune system, but without any actual data for the coronavirus, "mix and match" may be a good idea - having more epitopes to stimulate immune cell amplification "should" give broader immunity. I wouldn't be surprised if the next generation, particularly of mRNA vaccines, is made starting with a mix of different sequences, or with a hybrid sequence constructed with an engineered mix of different sub-sequences in a single RNA. mRNA vaccines were on the way before COVID, but their development has certainly been massively sped up and we can look forward to, for example, broader spectrum and longer lasting flu vaccines in the future. Don't hold your breath for that though; the standard, non-emergency route to testing and approval is not brief. The chemical industry used to tout "better living through chemistry", now we probably can proclaim "better living through genetics", but let's hope we're also more aware of the possibility of unintended consequences and that the purveyors of products don't hide the nasty side of things as Dupont etc. did.

[Burgerman]

So should be ok then... I am 62. So not too worried about side effects. Will wait for jab 4 then

To be fair, the chemical industry were right. We live longer today as you are also proving than ever before!

You need the bigger picture. Our chemical and other industries as well as oil, coal, gas, has made our planet healthier than ever before. The picture is even more rosy looking at the 3rd world.

Britain. Note lifespan dip for ww1.

[Gnomatic]

I agree that mixing COVID vaccines in principle *should* provide broader immunity.

[Burgerman]

Did you have a third one? Was it different?

[Gnomatic]

Britain. Note lifespan dip for ww1.

Revisionist history: Britain backslides on Belgium neutrality, letting both Belgium and France fall to the German Empire. On the flip side, its hard to see Hitler and Stalin emerging in that scenario.

[Gnomatic]

Did you have a third one? Was it different?

I got my third one in September. At that time here, choosing a different vaccine type for your booster wasn't permitted. It is now, however.

[swalker]

I received the Johnson & Johnson vaccine in March. It was the only one available to me and my doctors urged me to get the first one I could.

When a booster for the Johnson & Johnson vaccine was approved, switching from one brand to another was also approved.

Based on the relatively weak long term immunity for Johnson & Johnson I decided to get the Moderna booster, which I did in October.

My arm was a bit sore for a few hours, but other than that I did not have any issues.

Steve

[expresso]

i was thinking Moderna also - i got the J & J in april - but hard to find Moderna boosters here

mostly Pfizer - i have an CVS up the block i can get it there - i am curious to check my blood work first to see if i have any anti bodies still

i had Covid in Dec. 2020 - got the vaccine in april 2021 - have doc appt in dec. 20th - i like to know before i get the booster

just curious if i have any protection still - i dont want covid again - i got it from one of my girls for sure - she had it - her family etc, - by the time she knew - i must have had it from her also - yet when i had covid a good 3 weeks to a month - none of my other girls got it from me and they didnt wear masks with me either - i told them - they should for themseleves but didnt feel worried with me - i didnt feel good - zombie like - not sure how i did it now - thinking back - i dont want a repeat thats for sure

are the side effects the same for both the Pfizer and Moderna ? the rare side effects -

[LROBBINS]

John,

You may be right about the effect of modern chemistry on life span, but don't tell that to those who were exposed to the uncontrolled effluents from some of the factories.

Do take a look at your graph, though:

Image1.jpg (20.64 KiB) Viewed 762 times

The curve is steepest from end of the 19th century until about 1945 - before most of the chemicals revolution. If the situation in the U.K. was similar to that in the U.S., that massive increase in longevity was mostly thanks to public health and sanitation measures: clean water, sewers, getting rid of pretty awful tenements and so on. In the U.S., sewers actually accounted for most of it, a development thanks to the efforts and lobbying of a microbiologist, Ward Giltner, after whom the microbiology building (then known as the Dept. of Bacteriology and Hygiene) at Michigan State University was named. (Arcane knowledge, but one of his granddaughters married a PhD student of mine.) How much of the post-WW2 increase was the result of "better living through chemistry" and how much resulted from other, massive, societal changes, I have no idea.

[Burgerman]

Mostly.
I must say though that I never had any side effects from any of them. Thats the astrazenica and the BioNTech one. Or the flue jab...

The curve is steepest from end of the 19th century until about 1945 - before most of the chemicals revolution. If the situation in the U.K. was similar to that in the U.S., that massive increase in longevity was mostly thanks to public health and sanitation measures: clean water, sewers, getting rid of pretty awful tenements and so on. In the U.S., sewers actually accounted for most of it, a development thanks to the efforts and lobbying of a microbiologist, Ward Giltner, after whom the microbiology building (then known as the Dept. of Bacteriology and Hygiene) at Michigan State University was named. (Arcane knowledge, but one of his granddaughters married a PhD student of mine.) How much of the post-WW2 increase was the result of "better living through chemistry" and how much resulted from other, massive, societal changes, I have no idea.

Well everything is chemistry isnt it. Most of those other things you mention are all chemistry too. Now its true that some are hurt by such things, like bopal india... Or the flixboro explosion near scunthorpe in the UK where I was around 4 miles away and heard it... But OVERALL the countries with the greatest chemical and other industries, and greatest industrial transformation, are the ones that have the highest living standards, longest healthiest lifespans, the most comfortable controlled housing and the greatest amount of good food to eat - yes the ones full of E numbers that are heavily processed...

So OVERALL the most developed countries, the most industrial, those that use the most chemicals, the most fossil fuels, etc are the longest lived. Yes there may be some bad stuff, but its wildly outweighed by the good. Unles you want to go back to the days where you were dead by 28, lived a miserable life, and starved, had a head full of rotten teeth, and many deseases and much suffering through your short harsh life.

[greybeard]

I'm due to have the Pfizer booster next week and I have to admit I'm very reluctant to go through with it after I read yesterday that Pfizer's test results are apparently not going to be released until 55 years time in 2076!

If this is true, and the source looked credible, my sceptical brain tells me they have something important to hide.

Now, I'm pretty ancient (78), and had the first 2 AZ jabs. Any ban on travel, clubbing etc that may be imposed will not affect me in the slightest, but I really want to avoid having more untested concoctions pumped in me.

I believe there may be some here with professional knowledge of this stuff, so I'm asking those who may know, whether I am being unnecessarily concerned. If you were my age, would you on medical grounds alone, submit to what I think is government-lead propaganda that has little to do with our health?

[Burgerman]

Yes. Why do you think its a bad idea? At your age the benefits definitely outweigh any downsides.

[LROBBINS]

Greybeard,

That sounds very strange to me. Israel has released their data on boosters, all with Pfizer, and there's nothing worrying in what they've found - indeed, the results are very encouraging. The FDA has also reported favorably based on the data they've been provided. Booster results for Moderna have also not been published in a peer review journal as far as I know, but (1) they were advised to stop the placebo-controlled trial mid-stream because the results were already so positive, and (2) the FDA is reviewing their application for approval as a booster.

What was the source of your information, and to what "data" does it refer?

[greybeard]

Yes. Why do you think its a bad idea?

I just do not believe much of what this government tells us any more now (although I voted for them). Too many outright lies from them.

At your age the benefits definitely outweigh any downside.

Why are you so sure of that? There are many people reportedly dying or falling ill closely following on from these pseudo-vaccinations, particularly the booster.

[greybeard]

Greybeard,

That sounds very strange to me. Israel has released their data on boosters, all with Pfizer, and there's nothing worrying in what they've found - indeed, the results are very encouraging. The FDA has also reported favorably based on the data they've been provided. Booster results for Moderna have also not been published in a peer review journal as far as I know, but (1) they were advised to stop the placebo-controlled trial mid-stream because the results were already so positive, and (2) the FDA is reviewing their application for approval as a booster.

What was the source of your information, and to what "data" does it refer?

https://www.theepochtimes.com/fda-asks- ... 1.html/amp

[daveonwheels]

thats utter nonsense.also, not true.

[greybeard]

On a lighter note:

[greybeard]

thats utter nonsense.also, not true.

Evidence please.

[daveonwheels]

the epoch times is a legendary source of misinformation here in the states. i feel sorry for you if you believe any of the things in the link you provided. provide facts, not some random bullshit you read on the internet!

[daveonwheels]

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-epoch-times/

https://medium.com/politically-speaking ... f80d152a6f

[LROBBINS]

Here are a couple more links about "The Epoch Times" and their "expert" from Yale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Epoch_Times
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/29/viral-image/no-vaccinated-people-dont-make-60-new-covid-19-cas/

[greybeard]

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-epoch-times/

https://medium.com/politically-speaking ... f80d152a6f

Interesting that you don't consider those links as random bullshit from the Internet.
Personally I have come to recognise anything from alleged "fact checkers" as probable left wing propaganda.

[sacharlie]

thats utter nonsense.also, not true.

Evidence please.

LOL
Greybeard I said many times you would make a great republican over here. You can always tell a republican but ya just can't tell em anything.
The Enoch Times is a Chinese propaganda publication.

[greybeard]

Let's go Brandon!

[greybeard]

Well, I caved, and the deeds been done.

But I have to tell you that if it bloody kills me I'm gonna be mighty pissed off with you guys.

I'll make a point of haunting each one of you and give you a lot of sleepless nights!

[Burgerman]

Well at your age it doesent much matter!

And theres no such thing as spirits or ghosts. Or gods, elves, pixies, fairies or any other nonsense. Thats all woo woo. When your dead you are dead. So I am not worried!

[greybeard]

Pfft!

That's only what you believe! I'll show ya.

Anyway my age has nothing to do with it. I'm going to live forever.

[Burgerman]

Me too.

[steves1977uk]

Had my third jab today, felt a little tired afterwards but otherwise hunky-dory!

Steve