expresso

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Re: expresso

Postby Burgerman » 12 Dec 2021, 21:22

And the 5950X can pretty easily overclock by 15 to 20%.
So catching up almost exactly to the intel 12900. Which cant really gain more than a few percent. Becat bet is around 5% gain by using the ASUS inteligent learning overclock they build in.

So that means that the AMD chip then draws as much power at around 250w as does the so called greedy intel stock chip. So once overclocked both chips are pretty equal. In heat, performance, etc. But I can get cheaper motherboards and memory anduse my own 64GB ram... And get the dark ROG board fror the AMD.

So unless theres some same cost improved CPUs and boards early next year I will go AMD which I dont really want to do! :shifty: But it will save me about 400 in memory or more... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2HvCcb-eTc And while the cpu is overpriced, good boards are cheaper... So works out the same.
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Re: expresso

Postby Burgerman » 13 Dec 2021, 03:58

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Re: expresso

Postby expresso » 13 Dec 2021, 05:31

will check tomorrow

i been going crazy on alibaba looking for cells -
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Re: expresso

Postby expresso » 14 Dec 2021, 00:35

i seen it - what he did was install another HD with windows 11 on it - and booted into it -

different hardware worked fine - if i ever did it - i would just install in my same HD - same way i did this one - but since win 11 ltsc is not here and wont be here for who knows when - i dont care - this one works fine - in the end i wont notice any real difference - maybe a newer look -
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Re: expresso

Postby Burgerman » 14 Dec 2021, 00:53

Been doing this for decades across all 3 or 4 of my PCs.
You can physically swap the hard drive.
You can do a backup of any of your PCs and restore that to any other to it new drive.

As I was saying before that you never need do a install from scratch and should never want or need to. Thats a terrible situation as it means you have to reconfigure everything, from scratch. And there are many thousands of small and large configurations and fine tuning that will literally take years to arrive back in the same perfect setup.
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Re: expresso

Postby steves1977uk » 14 Dec 2021, 01:03

BM, don't forget that AMD setups can be very picky which RAM modules they like but hopefully you'll get lucky and have no issues! :thumbup:

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Re: expresso

Postby expresso » 14 Dec 2021, 01:12

i agree thats in your case - you do all those little adjustments etc, takes you years

i dont do that - i dont get that deep involved - but yes it would drive me crazy if i had to do that also -

for me its little to be done - just a few programs and firefox - i still dont remember all the little things - pin to menu items - shortcuts etc, but its not alot of things and not critical for me -

in your case and some others who are deeply involved and go for every little thing - you know what your doing and able to do it - and that would be alot to do all the time if you did a fresh install

the way i been doing is this - i do the best i can - with what i know - adjust the things that matter to me the most that i can do - just simple clean and thats it - do a full image back up and normally just restore to that image as time goes by or i install things that fuck it up - etc,

i go back to the image and update again - make a new image again and continue

i dont do a fresh install from scratch all the time - i had to do this time around when i was unable to restore to the image - drivers or something - didnt work - i started it -rebooting to do the restore - instead black screen telling me it cant continue - something is wrong or missing drivers -

so it was easier for me to just do a fresh install at this point - 30 mins i was back fresh install - all programs done - windows updated etc, - and did a fresh image again - this time i set windows up also to do back up - files and system etc, gives me some options if it happens again

it happened to me i think Twice this way - never before - if it happens again i will take a pic of what its telling me -
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Re: expresso

Postby expresso » 14 Dec 2021, 01:19

steves1977uk wrote:BM, don't forget that AMD setups can be very picky which RAM modules they like but hopefully you'll get lucky and have no issues! :thumbup:

Steve



its not about luck - get the ram thats been tested for AMD and its fine - mines was simple plug and play - booted first time - no ram problems - running at 3600 DDR 4 32gig - if you go blind and just get anything thinking it worked with intel - should work with AMD - then you may have issues

all this AMD thing is over bloated hype - i did it and i am an novice compared to you and BM etc, - why so scared about this or that - everyone is so smart - just get AMD and learn something - would be an learning experience - you may be surprised
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Re: expresso

Postby Burgerman » 14 Dec 2021, 01:52

Yes but your ram is ony running at 3600... And stock timings. Stock voltages. That should be running at 3800 or greater.

My olde DDR4, 4 sticks, 64GB is PC3600. Its been running at a rock solid 4000 for 6 years.
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Re: expresso

Postby expresso » 14 Dec 2021, 02:02

stock was 3200 - its running 3600 with a bit tighter timings -

it can do 4000 with the same timings as 3600 but with a bit more voltage added - i already tried it - even with the GPU on chip - raised it to 2200 from 2000 a bit more juice - really not a big deal - more heat maybe -

since i updated the bios and wiped out the settings - i didnt bother again - just a few things adjusted in bios - voltage to normal with some neg voltage - memory just used XMP mode - its fine

for my needs it fine - i can adjust it back again - get a bit more out of it - no big deal in the end -

memory is more important on an AMD than intel - speed wise etc, - you know all this already - you can get 5000 ram also - take a crack at that speed - that would make a huge difference maybe - at what cost -

3200 is sweet spot - OC to 3600 makes the most of it - any more - little gain and alot more cost to buy and raise volts etc, if that bit more matters to someone - it can be done
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Re: expresso

Postby steves1977uk » 14 Dec 2021, 02:05

Found this link... https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ram-b ... -hierarchy

expresso, yes I agree it's about picking the right parts for a build, but AMD requires one extra clock cycle for RAM to work, otherwise no POST. AMD compatible RAM works in Intel setups, so why not the other way round?

Also my APEX XIII MB came with the memory settings overclocked by the previous owner. Threw some Micron generic RAM in it rated at 3200MHz@1.2v CL22, but it POSTed with RAM configured for 4400MHz@1.5v. Wonder if I could run it at faster speeds and tighten the memory timings since I reset the BIOS settings, might have a play once it's in a case. :thumbup:

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Re: expresso

Postby Burgerman » 14 Dec 2021, 02:14

There is not a lot of performance gain from clocking memory. But its wasteful to leave that on the table. On AMD it regularly possible to get higher memory performance by leaving the speed stock, or running at 3200 with a bit more volts, and tightening timings. If I buy AMD we will see. Not in a rush. Will see what the new year brings from AMD. And later in the year intel. But its all arbitrary as the 5.2ghz 7700K i am using now does 5x more than I need. Unless I can get hold of the GPU I need for 4K. And those 3090ti, or 3090 cards are still missing in action.
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Re: expresso

Postby expresso » 14 Dec 2021, 02:15

there are many whys and why nots -

its AMD it works fine if you pick the right parts for AMD - if you want something to work across everything - it may not work -

thing is this - you want something that worked one way with intel - you want it to be the same with AMD - thats not the case - never was- AMD never said it would - it may be fine - it may not be -

if you want to reuse parts from an intel build on a AMD - you can try - and play around with it

dosnt bother me - you know better - if you go AMD - pick the parts that are known to work for AMD - i did - i didnt have any issues - the recent issue i had was my fault with the installed video card i had and forget it defaults to that if Cmos is cleared bios update etc,

that was just me - so i just left it on my video card now - so it wont happen again -

there is a line - between cost and what you get from the extra cost - its not worth the extra money to buy 4000 ram - not much more gain - other than benchmarks - just numbers - those days are over for me- not impressed with benchmarks as i once was - it was fun 15 years ago to play around and feel like i got it the fastest etc,

its fast enough stock now - even 6 cores or I5 even I3 are fast enough really - from my reading 3600 is the sweet spot for AMD - - works fine for me - even 4000 worked with more voltage -
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Re: expresso

Postby expresso » 14 Dec 2021, 02:20

Burgerman wrote:There is not a lot of performance gain from clocking memory. But its wasteful to leave that on the table. On AMD it regularly possible to get higher memory performance by leaving the speed stock, or running at 3200 with a bit more volts, and tightening timings. If I buy AMD we will see. Not in a rush. Will see what the new year brings from AMD. And later in the year intel. But its all arbitrary as the 5.2ghz 7700K i am using now does 5x more than I need. Unless I can get hold of the GPU I need for 4K. And those 3090ti, or 3090 cards are still missing in action.



right - so you have it 5x more than you ever need now - and it dosnt matter you dont even need it now - it come s down to - its a toy - hobby - you enjoy it - then spend a ton more money and you have something 6x more than you need - haha

i changed mines it was a decade old - i got tired of the case - it was too large - my AIO went bad - Air cooler worked after - kept it another year - i just got tired of it - and i wanted AMD again - so i did it

i dont expect to change it next year or in 3 years - its fast enough now and will be just as fast in 5 years - unless something really drastic changed or i got the itch for it - but not worth it - at least for me

since your better at this than myself - go for a good AMD set up and put your skills to work - intel is too easy -
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Re: expresso

Postby Burgerman » 14 Dec 2021, 02:25

But I DO need it once the GPUs I need for 4k flight sim become available.

With memory I agree. And the 16 core 32 thread 5.3ghz rizen 5950x is rediculous ovekill. As is the intel 12900 new platform CPU. But I am upgrading... So may as well go the whole hog. But that performance level really is essential for gaming at 4K with an RTX 3080ti of 3090. Its not possible to get enough FPS with high detail otherwise on my OLED 4K monitor!

Although the cheaper 8 core cpus like the Intel 12600 or the AMD 5900 would save a lot of £££ and perform just as well. All those cores are not needed. And in fact can be a hinderance. Many find higher FPS with half the cores turned off. Or hyperthreading off so that it uses more of the cores in gaming. Or MS FS in my case.
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Re: expresso

Postby expresso » 14 Dec 2021, 02:32

yes i read that also

turning off the cores etc, forcing the other cores to go max speed - gets better results -

and in your case - your doing things that benefit from the faster better speeds etc, - in my case - my old intel was fine if you want to just look at the needs -

thats why i said - this is more than fine for my needs and good for another decade maybe - if i dont get the itch sooner - or my needs change -


Try AMD wait for the newer ones to see if any more improvements are made - why not try something you never done before - how bad can it be really - it will be something new - you can learn all the ins and outs -

its not about AMD better than intel or vise versa - to each there own - but since you had intel your whole life - try a chocolate cake this time around :lol:
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Re: expresso

Postby Burgerman » 14 Dec 2021, 05:50

I have no fan boy preference. And going AMD doesent worry me in the slightest. It will be based on overal cost and performance. Theres no real difference going AMD or intel. Nothing new. EVERYTHING is basically only needed to support these new 3080/90 4k capable GPUs. And those are simply not available right now.
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Re: expresso

Postby Burgerman » 14 Dec 2021, 16:07

Pretty sure I a going to go with the AMD 5950X with its way over the top capability. 16 Core, 32 threads, with excellent easy overclock capability on the RIGHT boards that can allow some weird switching. Only ASUS allows this right now, and only on the Hero VIII DARK board. Which is stupidly expensive. But it has 2 things in its favour. One intelligent real time overclocking. And it allows you to have a serious all core 4.45 or better overclock and no time limits. As well as disabling this and going to high single or a few cores at approx 5.3ghz. This means best of both worlds. It equals the threadripper and beats intels new CPU things that rely on multicore stuff. And this shows in cinebench very clearly. But when not needed the all core overclock is disabled and it runs super economically whilst allowing single core perormance that equals the new intel 12900...

And in practical terms that allows the older AMD chip to beat the new intel which cannot really be overclocked. As it already is and draws 250 watts before overclocking. Thats rather higher than the AMD at 105 watts.

That means that my existing 750 watt power supply can run my new GPU when avaialable and the new CPU even if overclocked. And no DDR5 needed. So I can save on memory, cooler, and power supply. And lose nothing at all. I may do this over xmas. Any new AMD released will need more £££ and will be even greater ovekill. And it may mean I lose a little cash as the 5950X price will fall in the new year to match the Intel cpu just released. But you cant win them all.
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Re: expresso

Postby expresso » 14 Dec 2021, 17:23

sounds great - i hope you do it - i like to hear about that one - amazing how just a few years AMD did an excellent job pushing the limits - moving it forward
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Re: expresso

Postby Burgerman » 14 Dec 2021, 18:22

Yes. But early next year they have a new bunch of CPUs with greater cache. 3d cache layering or something. Approx 10% faster. DDR5 which makes zero difference and costs a lot. And PCIe 5 which is rediculous as we cannot use 4 fully today. + At least one CPU that runs on DDR4 and AM4. At that point the 5950X will drop to 2/3rds the cost, as its no longer the top CPU. And the best AMD board ever made will drop from around 550 dollars to 300... ATX ASUS Hero VIII DARK. If I wait. And I might!

Will buy when they shIp me my 3080ti water cooled EVGA card. I am in a que. https://www.evga.com/products/product.a ... P5-3969-KR By which time I will be 92.

I already bough a 360x120 3 fan radiator for the top, a 280 x 140 dual fan radiator, for the front, and a square 140 x 140 radiator for the rear. Thats a shit load of cooling area. So it will run really really cool. No fan will turn at all doing day to day stuff. Thats how my system is configured now. Not even in the power supply. And then only spin slowly at full load/gaming. After a little time when it warms the water. A lot of water... I love silence and no dust because no airflow needed at day to day surfing or office etc.
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