Kicked of flight. Wheelchair "would damage the plane"

[Burgerman]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/15935 ... lchair-ont

Kicked of flight. Wheelchair "would damage the plane" claimed pilot.

As usual they had already damaged it and broke the joystick pod off the wheelchair too.

[expresso]

not surprised - it seems the whole world just hates wheelchair users or disabled people

you would think that everyone would be more willing to help and assist us - instead they try there best to make it worse for us -

[Burgerman]

you would think that everyone would be more willing to help and assist us

I think its about 50/50. Some people care and go out of their way. Some dont know what to do or are embarrased. Some hate us. Some hate everything but themselves.

Personally I always went out of my way to help everyone when younger. Still do if I can. I give people the benefit of the doubt initially. But as I got older I became more sceptical of peoples motives and am generally more suspitious of them. And also realised how frankly incompetent most people are.

Aircraft are weak and highly regulated. The pilot may well have had a point but wasnt diplomatic... And the rest was as usual down to incompetence. But powerchairs really are problematic cargo.

[expresso]

with out knowing the facts

i cant believe one wheel chair would be over the limit and take the plane down -

wheelchairs fly all the time - not without a problem but they fly -

what if i took my bounder - picture that thing - its 450 lbs i think - thats 2 extra people on board - not the end of the world -

[Burgerman]

Ryanair claimed incorrect dimensions had been provided, and the wheelchair exceeded the maximum dimensions to safely load onto the aircraft.

Probably this: The chair was wider (or taller) than the hole in the cargo hold... And the upright on that ramp are roughly the same width apart as the loading hatch. So designed so that they cannot get a too wide load to the plane to prevent damage to the fragile hatch opening.

So no go without a lot of fighting. Hence the 1 hour delay. And chair damage. An inch too big is still too big! They never mentioned weight, but this determines the loading hatch used due to aircraft CG posiition requirements.

[LROBBINS]

The one word most apt in this conversation is "incompetent". An angled ramp is simply the WRONG thing to use for loading a wheelchair into an aircraft who's hold door is at an angle. With a vertical lift there'd be absolutely no problem getting it on board. The diagonal of a rectangle is much longer than any of its sides, but that's what they're trying to get through the door. The dimensions given by the px were probably correct!

The airport probably has one, for caterers or maintenance if for nothing else, but the airline people are too lazy to go get it. They'd rather flip the chair on its side, break off the joystick, and drag it in that way (if it can fit that way). We've never been booted from a flight, but we've certainly had Rachi's chair mis-handled and damaged in exactly this way.

BTW, this is not just a problem with the Irish cattle-car airline.

[Burgerman]

They do seem especially good at it though!
How did your recent trip go?

They dont tend to employ baggage handlers for their IQ. Esp in ireland! All those irish jokes didnt come about by accident. Where theres smoke...

I suspect the idiots that pass for baggage handlers were adding to the 1 hour that they were already delayed and the pilot took one look at them performing like a troop of chimpanzees and decided enough was enough and he wanted to go. But I still think that flying with powerchairs is a terrible idea for any number of reasons. Not least that the more heavy, the bigger, the more likely to end in disaster being manhandled by aforementioned chimps. Whatever you do dont try africa... They manage to lose or destroy your normal luggage regularly.

[swalker]

Not all wheelchairs will fit through all aircraft cargo doors. I know that my Permobil C500 and F5 will fit through the cargo door of most 737s, but it is very likely the wheelchair will be laid on its side and have heavy baggage loaded on top of it.

So, if the wheelchair is too large to fit, then I can understand why the airline was unable to load it. I can also believe that an airline would use that as an excuse if they were running behind (or had some other operational issue).

I have done a total of 4 flights with a wheelchair. There was damage on 3 of those 4 flights. It took a very long time to get the wheelchair repaired (about 9 months). In total, they replaced both drive tires, both motors, the left armrest, backrest shell, backrest cushion Roho cushion (seat bottom) and the entire shroud. It is amazing how much damage they did.

Steve

[expresso]

they did damage to my friends chair also - happens alot

wouldnt it be just cheaper for them to do the right thing - they replaced her whole chair - got a new one working with numotion - no insurance involved on her part - and the chair damage wasnt too bad - chair was still used after - they have no idea dealing with repairing it so they just replaced it

brand new chair seat lift tilt etc, maybe its worth flying with an old chair you dont care for - let them damage it and file complaint get new chair

[Burgerman]

They are not considering the cost of repair because thats the airlines problem.

These are the lowest paid labour with few skills of all the airlines staff. They know how load "normal" luggage. They know how to load shipping containers. Alhough frequently they do it badly. Even the occasional small light wheelchair or scooter is simple and hard to damage, and makes up the bulk of mobility products that get to fly.

I doubt they come across big heavy rehab powerchairs with all their frailty and difficulty in moving about safely very often. So they just see them as a bloody pain is the ass. They dont understand them, dont like them, and probably dont give a shit if they wreck or damage them. Probably do it on purpose in spite as it ruins their normal flow. They are not concerned with and dont even know the cost of any repairs. Likewise they have no comprehention of the difficulty it causes a user when they eventually arrive at the destination with no working powerchair. And they do not care either. Its not their problem.

This is why flying with a heavy rehab chair is so problematic.

[expresso]

i mean to say - them - they dont care - meaning the airlines

forget the workers - why would they care -

but the airlines that have to shell out 40K for a new chair - isnt it in there best interest to address the issue and not pay for new chairs -

now most may not even complain - thats another issue - if you fly and your chair is damaged when you land etc.

in order to hold them the airlines accountable - you have to make a big fuss right then and there - file the complaints etc, dont leave till its all done - could take hours - most users just leave or verbal complaint - no good

thats the only way to get the airlines to either repair or replace - if you dont do that - they wont care and not address it later if you leave - they can say - it was fine and you damaged it after

[Burgerman]

but the airlines that have to shell out 40K for a new chair - isnt it in there best interest to address the issue and not pay for new chairs -

How?
The cost of paying real wages for bagage staff with a brain, for e.g far outweighs the cost of one powerchair per 1000 flights to be replaced. No, they are already doing the cheapest option.

And planes dont just fly from one airline. Or in the USA. And they compete on price per ticket.

[expresso]

yeah i guess thats true -

not many chairs travel and not all will get replaced etc,

if i were to ever fly - i wont - but who ever does - use a old crap chair let them destroy it and fight for a new one

[Scooterman]

This is what I was planning to do if ever I travelled by plane. Tick the 'lead acid' battery box. (I.E. don't mention if it's lithium otherwise that would probably be an instant ban)

After checking in, transfer to a seat in the airport (if able), remove the armrests and joystick, bag them up, bungee to seat, lower the backrest as best as possible and bungee in place. And use crutches (if able) to board aircraft. Hoping they don't pile too many sodding heavy suitcases on top of WC.

BUT how do they get the dismantled, deactivated powerchair to the plane? Do you disengaged the drive and they bend over and push it?

Powerchairs or scooters don't push that easy with the drive disengaged. I don't know why, cogs maybe?

[LROBBINS]

Rachi wasn't on our trip to Norway, so no WC to deal with. After various sad experiences with attempts to load her chair from an inclined conveyor into a belly-mounted hatch (mostly Airbus) I actually modified her chair so that the back can be folded down and secured. It is much more compact that way and it also avoids some a--hole trying to open it, drive it or fiddle with cables etc. Yes, it is put in free wheel and there's a large placard attached with stowage and delivery instructions, including drawings and labels for the free-wheel levers. I designed her new chair with a folding back from the start.

Another thing we have found very useful is to ask a member of the airplane crew to take responsibility for making sure it gets to the plane (and not the baggage carousel) at destination. There's always been someone willing to do this, often the chief of the cabin crew or the pilot or co-pilot. At some airports, especially in Europe, we've found that the ramp supervisor is quite willing, if asked, to supervise loading (and they are decidedly more apt than most of the gorillas working the ramp).

Another, smaller mod was made after experiencing loading onto a commuter aircraft at Philadelphia. Memory says it was a Canadair, but in any case it was an airplane with an enormous hatch for the cargo hold. But, it is so low to the ground that the handlers just lift luggage into the hold right from the ground. A savvy baggage handler actually asked me what would be safe lifting points on Rachi's chair for two of them to hoist its 100+ kilos. The rear was easy, but what I found for them at the front was safe, but not exactly comfortable. So, when we got home I added a pair of lifting handles to the front of the chassis.

Lastly, NEVER leave the aircraft until things are done to your satisfaction. Once you are out that door, the flight crew has no responsibility for you and there's unlikely to be anyone else willing or able to help. Once, many years ago and before we knew this, and before there was an Air Carrier Access Act, we were stranded a floor above customs/immigration at the old JFK international arrivals terminal with no wheelchair (her pediatric manual chair had gone to the carousel) and the only doorway was marked "no entry". I entered anyway and raised holy hell.

[Scooterman]

I actually modified her chair so that the back can be folded down and secured. It is much more compact that way and it also avoids some a--hole trying to open it, drive it or fiddle with cables etc. .

I'm currently doing that