This EV malarkey is going well isn't it...

[steves1977uk]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -Khan.html

Then there's this Youtuber who bash the EV drum...


youtu.be/AHr7y3ZpJ8k

He hasn't a clue about Li-ion batteries and BMS's which he seems to think are safe!

Steve

[Burgerman]

Everything is relative.

[Burgerman]

I quite like EVs. Esp tesla. But the pretense that it is solving some made up liberal net zero problem by burning even more gas/coal across the world to make the cars and to generate power to charge them is rediculous. They are double the mass! All that extra wasted energy. Its all virtue signaling and subsidised bullshittery...

[steves1977uk]

Agree BM, the mass of weight from the batteries in EV's is damaging the roads, plus tyres on those cars only last a year before they need to be replaced. So how is that more eco-friendly???

Steve

[Burgerman]

Ignoring all that, most of the power to charge them comes from gas, in huge tanks shipped as a super chilled liquid from across the planet. Becaue for virtue signalling reasons we are ignoring our own in the seas and on land... At approx another loss of efficiency. Because it costs energy to cool it, and to regassify it at the other end. And the cost is approx 4x that of using our own...
Thisis because we DESTROYED 195 coal power stations, and allowed the coal mines to flood or be filled in. Again because of virtue signalling nonsense. So we now actualy use more fossil fuel at a lower efficiency than ever before. At much higher cost. In order to pretend that its green.

On top of this, we used to have 32 nuclear power stations. Now all either already shut down or at end of life that we never replaced because - green lobby say bad...

And so instead we have been outsourcing the creation of solar farms (very heavily subsidised) and wind farms, at huhe 100 billion costs to the taxpayer. And these dont work at all on calm days, or at night, or in winter. Guess when you need that power most? Yep, winter.

Then because we no longer have reliable gas supply, or oil, we are trying to push the housholders into heat pumps. Even though the vast majority of energy in this country is powered by that same gas that getting rid of your gas boiler saves... So the reality is that a 20k heat pump system, which also needs much better insulation and bigger radiators etc, doese nothing to reduce C02 and in fact cant be done. Why? Because we are struggling for power even before we start trying to heat the country with electric heat pumps, or electric cars. And that is a less efficient system in regards total energy required than we do now.

Its all a stupidly expensive joke that saves no C02, just moves the stuff to other countries and costs us all a fortune and is bankrupting the country.

[martin007]

All the money that is being thrown away for the the electric car should be used in PHES.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-st ... lectricity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nant_de_D ... ower_Plant

[Burgerman]

But pumping water up to a higher elevation is also inneficient. The motors themselves, and the act of pumping. And then the act of regeneration afterwards. You end up throwing away much of the stored power. Much better to carry the fuel to the place where the energy is required. Gasoline for e.g is over 70 times more energy dense by weight than batteries. Which dont get any lighter when empty either.
And burning gas in a heating system is up to 95% efficient in a modern condensing boiler. Burning it in a power station is 35 to 60% efficient, and then theres transmission losses and battery charger (and battery) losses as well as motor losses if used in an EV...

[martin007]

It is a feasible way to store energy if you have an excess of solar or wind power production.

[Burgerman]

But we never have enough. Never mind too much. By a massive margin. After wasting over 100 billion in subsidies in the last few years along we are struggling to keep the lights on, and buying electricity from 7 different countries every time the wind doesent blow... Or at night when no sun and the lights need to be on.

And thats while we are driving fossil fuelled cars and heating homes with gas.

We typically use 4 to 5 times as much gas as electricity in kwh in the UK. So if we all fit electric heat pumps, the typical 12 to 14kwh daily will increase to FIVE TIMES that! And thats before we all start charging 100kwh cars every 2 or 3 days. Which is going to increase the daily 12kwh to around 40kwh alone!

So we will need around 7 to 10 times MORE energy than today. And we already cant do it. Its all a sad joke.
Add to this electric powered trucks, container ships, planes, and factories across the country. And how will that all be powered?

[martin007]

I'm talking about electricity generation peaks.
In a few years there will be occasional surpluses of electricity in Spain.
Wind and solar electric energy.


Electric vehicles and electric heating will never cease to be a utopia.

[Burgerman]

You peaks will not happen. As you adopt more EVs and more heat pumps etc. The problem will be the opposite. You will need 5 to 7x MORE energy than you are producing, and even if you increase the grid capacity by 10x that doesent help. Because the load can still be massive for a week at a time with no wind or solar at night. No amount of storage will touch this. And its wasteful and not efficient anyway.

[Burgerman]

For e.g, for a week in march ONE HUNDRED BILLION wasted on building thousands of square miles of windmills and solar produced farms, made almost nothing...

No amount of storage can help here. You would need enough storage to run an entire country for a week or so. And thats BEFORE electric cars, electric heating, trucks, cargo boats, factories and ceramics and steel production is forced to use electricity...

[martin007]

On November 3, 2023, 73.5% of Spanish electricity was renewable.

[Burgerman]

Same here. Then the next day its not... For a week. And that is decieving too. Because the total countries energy is only around 15% electrical. The rest isnt. And they are currently stopping that. Everything will be powered by the grid. Even on the days or weeks where theres no wind or sun... And thats the problem.

[martin007]

I'm just talking about electric power.
I live reality; not in the fantasy world of the 2030 agenda.
I think electric cars, tractors and trucks will never be a reality.

[Burgerman]

They already are. And taxing everything else heavily, like road fuel, petrol diesel cars, and heating gas or gas for industry etc will ensure that it does happen. Thats the EUs biggest agenda. Likewise destruction of farming, personal freedoms etc. The whole thing is one massive left wing agenda. Ever noticed how the left love their green/blue hair, free other peoples money, marxism, open borders, globalism, green nonsense, socialist and unionistic economics, they hate nationalism, countries, capitalism, everything that makes a country worth living in? All same shit.

[martin007]

They already are

They are only subsidized prototypes...
They're just toys.
In reality they aren't viable.
Many people are being deceived, but the reality will give them a good scare.

[Burgerman]

In spain so far maybe.
In the UK amazon and DPD and other delivery companies are all electric. In my street alone theres 2 teslas, a porshe, and a couple of smaller EVs, and on the roads maybe 1 n 10 cars already. Because they have forced people to consider them with taxation, fuel costs, vehicle tax, road costs such as in big cities £10 or £15 a DAY extra to drive in town centres etc if your vehicle doesent comply.

It will happen in spain too, the EU will see to that.

[martin007]

The best electric cars out there today are Tesla's.
What real autonomy does a Tesla have?
Real autonomy, tested; not laboratory.
What real autonomy does a Tesla have at an ambient temperature of 0º?
They are only good for going to make the purchase.

How long does it take to charge a Tesla?
Do people know that fast charging spoils batteries...?

[Burgerman]

Tesla?
300 miles range, easy 200 even in winter. Tesla have fast so called superchargers around here. So charge doesent take long at all. But most charge while they sleep at home and then its irrelivant how long it takes. Most journeys are not more than 200 miles. And so only ever get charged at home while you sleep.

I have no problem with teslas. Or other decent electric cars. But the idea that they are cheaper to run, and or that they somehow save the planet is simply wrong. A small deisel car is still cheaper to run and own long term. They are good cars though. Fast, reliable, quiet. Eat tyres faster? Yes, but not by much. Not enough to matter. Fires? Yes. But they are still LESS likely to burn than a petroleum based car. So when you see a pic of one burning consider that petrol cars do that too. Also teslas are only using around 70% of their battery. So its only 85% full when it tells you its full. So the batteries will last decades if you also dont run it to empty all the time. They are managed much better than a typical BMS does. Better than a laptop/phone system. Battery longevity on a tesla isnt an issue. It IS a problem on a small battery car like some of the early ones.

Same reason we fit 230Ah in a powerchair. Because we can. And because a smaller battery is a stupid idea. Lithium doesent like that.

[martin007]

Drive a Tesla by stepping on the accelerator from time to time and with the heating turned on.
You would see what his real autonomy is.

[Burgerman]

My freind at the end of the street drives like me. He does drive it hard. That doesent really do much harm to the range, as it takes the same amount of energy to go from 0 to 70mph as it does if you do it gently or in 3 seconds. And it can... And when you brake its regenerative... So goes back to the battery. Unless you REALLY hammer the brakes. Which isnt practical on the public road anyway. So no the range is at worst 200 miles and 300 plus if you drive normally even in winter with heat on.

So its not as bad as you may think. When you decelerate in a petrol car thats wasted energy. Not so in most electric cars. The fuel goes back to the tank! So driving harder tends to matter much less to the economy. He also works in the next town, 30 miles away. Still only needs to charge once every 4 or 5 days.

So no its not an issue. When you stick 230Ah lithium in your powerchair you will get the idea!

[Burgerman]

I might add that the model 3 for e.g is available with several battery sizes. The one you want actually has 405miles (EPA) range. Thats 651km. Thats enough. On the odd occasion you want to go further, you may need to stop and top up. Might take an hour. Now you have 1302km range. Or 1000 if you drive it like you stole it.

But you waste 15 mins filling up a petrol car maybe once a week. Thats 52 x 15 mins. Or 13 full hours wasted. But if you only ever charge at home, then the very occasional trip that means going more than 650km you may wast 1 hour. ONCE a year!