The high cost of socialized medicine

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The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby F3Head » 12 Apr 2020, 22:04

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/price- ... taly-spain

With well over a half-million confirmed cases of Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) in Europe, a growing number of regional medical authorities have begun issuing guidelines and protocols that call for hospitals to prioritize younger patients over those who are older.

In Italy and Spain, the two countries most affected by the coronavirus pandemic in Europe, doctors in overwhelmed intensive care units have for weeks been making life or death decisions about who receives emergency treatment. The new protocols, however, amount to government directives that instruct medical personnel effectively to abandon elderly patients to their fate.

You can throw the disabled into this quagmire just as well…

The US isn't much better. You can be sure this is already been discussed amongst the powers that be…

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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby expresso » 12 Apr 2020, 22:19

yes i believe so also - they wont say it to your face - we are not any better with stuff here - they still cant get testing done here - still cant find clorox wipes - lysol spray - hand sanitizer - everything they tell us to use - we cant find - its bullshit - how one little bump in the road and its the end of the world -

there have been worse in the past - we just never experienced it in todays world where we think we know it all and can handle anything - wait till the next round hits and or a new one emerges from China -
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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby martin007 » 12 Apr 2020, 22:19

In Spain, the elderly and the disabled are a burden on the state.
Politicians want our money to give it to Africans...


I ask a question.

What do Africans have...?
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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby LROBBINS » 12 Apr 2020, 22:40

At least in the case of Italy, I have great difficulty believing this. In part I don't believe it because, despite massive, detailed, coverage and in which government decrees are printed in full, there's been no mention of this. And the other, probably more important reason, is that the pressure on Italian hospitals is now decreasing steadily -- for at least the last week or so, there have been fewer new cases per day, about 100 fewer patients each day in intensive care and the daily death toll has been about halved. The worst zone remains Lombardia, the first area hit and where the infection was allowed to spread before serious area-wide lockdowns were implemented. Where people contact has been inhibited (though surely not completely stopped) things are much different. The total cases in Lazio (that includes Roma and has 6 million inhabitants) is about equal to one week's new cases in Lombardia (which includes Milano and has 10 million).

Where things have really fallen apart for older people, here and apparently in the U.S. as well, is that old people living in "old-age homes" are being woefully neglected - for example, the homes are not calling the emergency health service, people are not being taken to hospital, and in the largest such facility in Italy staff was not wearing any PPE at all. In New Jersey, a large fraction of the residents of one home cited repeatedly this year and in past years for various serious lapses including in infection containment, have died, and in another privately owned and run residence (I don't recall where) the staff simply disappeared after the first case appeared and residents were left starving and in urine-soaked beds - even then, the owners didn't call the authorities and the dead and dying were discovered by chance. Nursing homes in Italy are "socialized", in the U.S. they are "private", but there doesn't seem to be much difference in how awful they are.
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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby sacharlie » 12 Apr 2020, 23:37

ZeroHedge is propaganda from a right-wing investment banker.
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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby Burgerman » 13 Apr 2020, 06:07

There was some mention by our government in TV discussion that if they didnt open new feild hospitals fast (which they did) that this may become neccassary depending of how thi self isolation, and obeyance of the stay indoors rules went. All the rest is propaganda. There may have been a bit of a struggle as to deciding on who got a bed or the breathing equipment in a few places in europe but certainly nothing major.

For what its worth nursing homes are pretty crap everywhere. Here they are both private and socilised. Being as if you work all your life and have a house and money in the bank, you get all that taken away to pay for your care. But if you never bothered to work, lived is rented or social housing, and had nothing you get it all paid by the state. Both end up in beds next to each other. You can pay if you have enough to go into a better nicer place if you can afford really it. I suspect the carers would run away regardless.
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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby Cornbread » 13 Apr 2020, 06:45

In my driving career, during the food service years, I dealt with a lot of nursing homes. The level of care given between them varies even more than the political views between sacharlie and burgerman. First thing you notice is the smell, or lack of one. Like a seafood shop, if you smell old fish, leave. Bad nursing homes had a distinct urine/festering sound scent. The strength of that odor was the level of, or lack of care. In fairness, sometimes, albeit rarely, it wasn't purely the care givers fault. Severely under staffed and under budgeted meant they were forced to do what they had to in many cases. Despite how hard they worked. But most of the time it's lack of caring, lack of budget and poor oversight.
Another interesting note is the amount spent on food per meal/day. Some were down as far as $1.50 or less per. This includes the cost of specialized items like thickened water etc. Yes, that is a thing. As this increased costs, costs were cut elsewhere to bring it down.
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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby Burgerman » 13 Apr 2020, 10:39

Thickened water :eh:
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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby Cornbread » 13 Apr 2020, 13:26

Thickened beverages are for people who have issues with swallowing. Comes in assorted flavors, and I think different viscosities as well. Most I saw were similar to honey in how they flowed. It's been a long time... But I think it can apply to some food as well.

Privately owned companies had ones catering to the government payment, where most people were. Making profit off cutting budgets To the bone. Then they had the nice ones that were essentially resorts with a nicely outfitted hospital/cafeteria/gym in the center. Generally condominium type arrangements with communications to the central building to arrange schedules, nurse visits, meal delivery etc. Sometimes owned by the same company.
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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby Burgerman » 14 Apr 2020, 02:21

You would think "thickened" water would be harder to swallow wouldnt you? Like compared to drinking a pint of custard... Compared to downing a cold beer in summer in one. But what do I know!
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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby LROBBINS » 14 Apr 2020, 08:50

Thickened is mostly for people who have a problem with aspiration.
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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby swalker » 14 Apr 2020, 21:29

As counterintuitive as it seems, thickened liquids are easier to drink for folks with swallowing issues.

The disease I have affects the muscles involved in swallowing. Water is hard to swallow. I find that carbonated beverages are easier, as are beverages that are a bit more viscous than plain water. It is amazing how much easier it is to drink soda, wine, and whiskey than water. Oddly enough, beer is hard to swallow. The subtle change in viscosity makes a big difference for me.

Aspiration, and Aspiration pneumonia, are significant risks for folks like me. More viscous liquids can make aspiration less likely.

Pudding is way easier for me to swallow that water!

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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby Irving » 15 Apr 2020, 09:46

My father had Parkinsons and couldn't swallow properly and was forever choking on his food and runnng the risk of pneumonia. He was diagnosed as malnourished because he wasnt eating properly. Eventually he had to switch to a liquid diet consistng mainly of thick soups or purees with no lumps. He could manage those well and they kept him going, indeed he thrived on them for about a year, until the Parkinsons got him in the end.
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Re: The high cost of socialized medicine

Postby alexstrem » 08 Dec 2021, 17:32

This is the sad and tragic truth. My mother got the virus in May. The hospital she was taken had too many patients. She was connected to breathing machines for two days. The doctors told me that the protocols state that young patients prioritize. I have a day to take her to another private hospital outside the country, or they'll unplug her and try to treat her without them. So I booked her a place in a German private hospital and paid for an air ambulance to get there. She's fine now.

(Suspected spam, removed dodgy link to a US air ambulance service. Burgerman.)
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