Seating stuff... cushion & back

[Step]

Buying a new cushion was interesting.

I've used a Jay2 for over 20 years and a normal 'sling' backrest on a manual chair.
About 2 years ago, I switched to a solid backrest due to chronic back pain. It was a revelation!
I tested the Roho Jetstream pro and the Jay3 back. Bought the Jay3 and am quite happy with it.
http://www.jay3seating.eu/en_gb/index2.html
http://www.therohogroup.com/products/back%20supports/jetstream_pro_back_support.jsp
Way better support and almost no added weight.
Solid backrests make sense to me. People in offices kill for a chair with a good back support and yet, wheelchairs continue to be built with a cloth over some velcro straps backrests. I know it's a weight issue as well but with modern materials... come on.
Lightweight solid backrests are a lifesaver for lots of wheelchair users suffering from backpain.

I'm putting a Jay3 back on my powerchair as a first mod, as soon as I come up with a slightly modified fixing mechanism for it.

Now for a cushion, I found out Jay created the Jay3 cushion.
It's based on the Jay2 but offers a choice in inserts. You can chose the classic gel pad that's compartimented (?) now to avoid bottoming out or an air cushion insert much like the Roho bumpy cushion style. Together with a number of other inserts to help position-wise.
I'm getting one to trial one of these days.
http://www.sunrisemedical.com/products/product_detail.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524447450691&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474395235257&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=1408474395285139&bmUID=1241553512174#Product%20Overview

Being a c5-c6 quad, I need a bit more support and the Jay3 back-cushion combination look like the perfect match without too much compromise in the looks.

[Martin O Refurbisher]

Interestingly, several of our clients now specify Recaro chairs. In the main these give plenty of back support, and of course, power options are available. (The Recaro Mobility seat with 24v powered backrest is available for c£650). Optionally, Armrests can be either the standard Sunrise design as mounted to the chassis frame, or for lighter use, to the seat back.

Apart from the added weight and raised CofG (often completely acceptable), there is a potential problem for those who need to transfer by board however.
The Recaro seat has very high squab wings to support the user in position. The height and firmness of these makes some transfers very difficult.

For those who need the option of the firm contoured backrest, and a recline to near flat (apart from the fact that the hinge point is high up), the option I can now implement is to remove the Recaro squab, making space for a Jay or Roho cushion. As these are built as separate units, it is not to much of a problem for the excellent upholsterer I use.

Perhaps the best of both worlds? Any suggestions as to improvements?

Best,

Martin

[Step]

I have seen a car seat adaptation like that. A square cutout of the seat cushion with a polystyrene foam insert to set the height of a Jay cushion on top of it.
Looked good and worked excellent for the high risk user.

I'm not a fan of the added weight and the bulky look of these type of chairs on a wheelchair though.

Some people need the high squab to keep their legs aligned though. It's a constant search for a compromise as we all know.
Jay cushions can be ordered with extra side support to keep legs in place and they're not as high as the Recaro ones

That's why I prefer my setup. Both Roho and Jay backs are originally designed for manual wheelchairs. They are as light and lean as possible.
They come in different heights and depths (lateral support) to cater any user's needs and can be personalized with pads and inserts to help with any anatomical needs, extra side supports and a matching harness or headrest can be ordered with them as well if needed.
They can be mounted on the existing frame of almost every standard seating system so there's no need for special adaptations or heavier motors for the moving parts.

I don't sell these if anyone got suspicious of me plugging them here
They just work excellent for me and I like the fact that they offer loads of function & support in a discreet way.

[Martin O Refurbisher]

Step,
Understood.
Whilst there is a perception that powerchair manufacturers produce standardised products fit for almost no one, they are approved medical devices, and do offer a reasonable solution for many, and the options within customised backs and seats helps many more.

However, that leaves some who genuinely need or want something different, and for them the data that BM provides as to how to go further, is invaluable. It certainly helps me considerably with what I am doing for clients, and I am delighted to acknowledge this.

As you probably know from past posts, I, like BM, wanted a better chair. Having the resources to produce my own adaptations lead me to where I am now - making bespoke parts and custom building special chairs for others, built around the F55. The scale has grown from me working occasionally to 2 of us and a number of fabricators running fast to keep up with demand! Key to this is of course to contain costs to a realistic level.

Best,

Martin

[Step]

Martin,

No problem, I understand and appreciate what you, BM and many others here do. I use your ideas to extend my mobility enormously.
In no way my posts are meant to correct or devaluate the solutions you guys implement or provide better options.
I'm not that stupid

I just wanted to post some of my additions to my chairs that improved them by quite a lot.
I don't have the technical skills you have and had to find my solutions in the aftermarket range.
they could be a 3rd option between the standard upholstery and the full Recaro seat, couldn't they?

On the cost part, i thought these could offer a solution as well in the sense that, if the chairs you make aren't recognized by social security and refunded (I don't know if they are but I think people have to fund them themselves? correct me if I'm wrong), the aftermarket seating systems might be.
They are for me. I could make my own chair or have it made for a fraction of the price the manufacturers do, much like you guys do.
And buy the cushion and backrest separately with a full refund, cutting the price even more maybe. All I need to get them is a doctor's prescription saying I need an upgraded seating system (recognized by them of course).

I, like many others, hope to own a BM-like chair myself one day, I've never seen anything coming close to them, and you offer that option.

[Burgerman]

Some people need the high squab to keep their legs aligned though. It's a constant search for a compromise as we all know.
Jay cushions can be ordered with extra side support to keep legs in place and they're not as high as the Recaro ones

They are you know!
I have several removed recaro seats here, They are just narrower. Which is a good thing.

I have one jay with the removable side supports for sale here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=567

[Martin O Refurbisher]

Step,
We are all pooling our knowledge and experiences to try to make a better way of life for us all. While I still have some mobility left, I am working frantically to use it to get to the closest to an optimal solution, or at least set in motion a service that will continue to assist others.

BM is generously both sharing his many years of experience, and facilitating this forum. Whilst I have been a user for many years, it is only in the last couple of years that I have devoted myself to the engineering, and this has accelerated to the state where I feel that I am more than committed for more than 100% of my time!

My objective differs only slightly from BMs - he wants the best chair for himself, and his particular needs, and kindly shares his remarquable expertise and experiences. I likewise want the ideal solution for me (I am still not sure what that Utopia is), and to offer such support as I can to others.

However, unlike WCS, I recognise that no two clients are the same (Not only am I not like Burgerman - can you imaging what the world would be like with 2 of us?)
I therefore provide a service to make standard chairs into bespoke ones that best meet client needs, and to do so such that they are as robust as possible, and also as affordable as possible. BM has a friendly technical college and other resources behind him - I am using a network of commercial fabricators who are trying hard to help. BM can take advantage of one off specials; I have to seek out regular supplies.

Recarco offer one chair with a power recline, which, apart from the shaft hump, goes nearly flat, and can be operated via P&G electronics or a separate switch. All their other models have switch panels built into the seat, and require power to that panel, so often the choice of powered Recaro seat is restricted.

This chair is comprised of the Mobility X Base and the Mobility LT powered backrest. It can be ordered with the seat cushioning removed to accomodate a Roho or other cushion. Typical UK price is c £600.

From my point of view, I like to meet my clients whenever possible, preferably before build, in order to assess their requirements and agree seating needs. That way, I can ensure that they get the right solution, rather than a compromise. That said, we have had clients try the solution agreed, or interpreted, and decide that it nearly works for them. We have then taken the chair back and reworked it (at our cost) in order to ensure satisfaction. This of course is one of the reasons why a face-to-face assessment, preferably on ordering, but if not, on delivery, (when its normal for us to spend 1/2 day with the client, setting up, programming and explaining), is so vital to our ways of working.

Coming back to your point about a middle way regarding seating, we will always look at what is available, from whatever source. We also have a very good upholsterer on site, so can offer totally bespoke seating solutions, in terms of style, shape, size, colour, covers etc.

Do please continue to contribute, and don't deprecate your own contribution - knowledge shared here improves things for the good of all!

Best,

Martin