I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelchair

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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 25 Oct 2022, 21:28

These 2 have EXACTLY the same settings. But are not limited to a 12A charge.

One is set for 6 cells (12V) and 12A.
The other is set for 12 cells or 24V.

These can be used with anderson connectors to charge at any current levels you want. Odyssey has no limit and actually recommend their 50A charger for their smallest batteries. The reason to do this is that the CC or bulk stage is finished faster So the long drawn out CV stage can get enough time for a complete charge during the limited time we have.

So set to 40A and you can charge perfectly safely via Anderson connectors and your battery will get a more complete overnight charge. Dont do this with gels...
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Lead AGM Odyssey 12 Volt 40A.PS8
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 25 Oct 2022, 21:28

no I want to replace these , so I'm going to purchase these. Yes?
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 25 Oct 2022, 21:33

Why reverse termnal?
Will these have the DT so side terminals? Will that hit your chairs battery box sides? I cant see it.

I use the DT ones and CUT OFF the side terminals or order the PC1500 M as it does not have these side terminals.

Plus you would be better with the GEL battery that I fitted to the backup chair by Haze.

Unless your programming is set to wheelie like crazy, and jump to command. In which case go for the Odyssey. The HAZE gel battery will give a little better range, and with most peoles programming work just the same. It will last longer if charged correctly too.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/131119213209
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 25 Oct 2022, 21:44

Google shopping search doesn't find the PC1500 M
https://www.google.com/search?q=odyssey ... roducts-cc

But I can find the DT model with the terminals on the side which you say I can chop off. When I chop them off what do I cover the leftover exposed terminal area with?
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 25 Oct 2022, 23:04

Nothing. Its a thin bit of brass. Plastic covered. Just search PC 1700 MARINE. Unless like me you want to charge at 50 Amps, or get every last ounce of torque out of it with very severe programming than the gel battery I linked to is a better longer range, longer lifespan choice.

Or I think there may be a grp 24 bigger Ah version of the odyssey now?

Marine...
I see many.
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=odysse ... 0+m&ia=web
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 26 Oct 2022, 11:26

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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 26 Oct 2022, 11:54

No. But its easy to use some 2 core 1mm cables. But you will need to solder.
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 26 Oct 2022, 12:30

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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 26 Oct 2022, 12:34

I want to find the capacity in these Odyssey batteries that I have (I have 4 altogether) would it be okay to increase the rate at which it discharges from the 4 it is set at now? If yes what is the maximum discharge rate I could set it at?
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 26 Oct 2022, 13:16

To find accurate capacity you need to do it over the 20A rate.
Thats 68Ah, divided by 20 = 3.4A. That will take approx 20 hours to reach 10.2V

If you discharge it faster, say the 10 hour rate, thats 6.8A discharge from full, to 10.2V then it will work. But you wont get the full capacity. I think around 62Ah.

The choice is yours.

See the www.wheelchairdriver.com/odyssey.pdf for figures that dont involve my memory!
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 26 Oct 2022, 20:49

Thanks very much John. Can you do me another favour, can you optimise this preset for fuel saving. I'm not bothered about performance at all, just fuel saving.
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 26 Oct 2022, 22:11

Theres nothing you can do in programming for fuel saving really.

And that profile is for a PERMOBIL it will not work properly on any other chair if it works at all. And I cant fix that. If you dont own a permobil with ICS you should delete it.

It how you USE it.
Turn in place, fat tyres, traveling at high speeds, 8mh motors especially bad even at low speed, avoid left/right cambered pavements and road edges, CG position, big low pressure tyres. All eat power.

4 pole 4 or 6mph motors give lowest current draw at all speeds, straight lines on flat surfaces takes the least current. Traveling at around half speed gives more range on lead batteries and exactly the same range on lithium. Becaue no peukert... Ets. Low tyre pressures eats amps. Wider tyres does too. Weight (add a seat lift and power everything and you add 100KG to the chair! And and an 8 stone user will go twice as far as a 20 stone user. So the differences between chairs even the same chairs can be simply massive.
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 28 Oct 2022, 10:06

this can't be right can it? Using the "Lead AGM Odyssey 12 Volt 40A" preset.
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 28 Oct 2022, 11:35

it was that "fishing hook" on the end of the charge that made me suspicious that the charge had gone on for too long?
C4/5 tetra
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Tom BM clone 8mph linix, R-net odyssey batteries
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 28 Oct 2022, 12:05

No thats correct. I stopped the CV charge when its gets to a low current, and changed to a CC low level end for a short period to prevent sulfation.
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 28 Oct 2022, 21:23

thank you
C4/5 tetra
BM 8 mph AMT Schmid 013552 R-net 150Ah lith
Tom BM clone 8mph linix, R-net odyssey batteries
Lifestand motion tech 5.6 mph R-net 112Ah lith
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 29 Oct 2022, 19:12

The reason is simple.
If you were to charge an odyssey battery and do it the safest way possible, so as to not shorten its life that you would choose 14.7V and you would charge it at 40A. You would continue this for 8 hours (max) or to 1000th of its capacity at the 20h rate. So thats whichever occurs first. That 1000th of its C is 68mA on the PC1500 one.

So your algo would be max amps until it reaches CV voltage of 14.7 (at 20C). Then hold it at 14.7 volts for 8 hours. Unless it first sees 1000th C or 68mA. (thats 0.068A).

But this gives us a couple of problems. It presumes the battery is say 40 to 80% discharged.
If its more than that then 8 hours would not be QUITE enough. If its less, then it shouldnt be an issue as it will terminate at that 200mA termination setting. Maybe after 5 hours or so. But different batteries vary. Some never get down to that low 67mA. Even some new ones... And esp if they have been subjected to a bad charger previously and are a little sulphated.

So instead of 68mA we can set 200mA. That is a figure most batteries will reach. In around 8 hours. If set to 68mA it may not fall far enough and so then the charger would say charge ended due to time limit. But its not full yet. With AGM we MUST put back a little more than we take out every charge. Or they will sulphate. So in this case an extra hour at a small fixed current. This ensures that a) it charges at the high 14.7 volts for no longer than 8 hours although it can be less. If it reached that 200mA point. But then it recieves a little extra without the high voltage at a fixed low current and so at a lower non gassing voltage. It means it will take around a couple of hours CC, 8 hours CV, and 1 hour at very low current where the volts will initially fall, and begin to rise when the battery is charged fully. It is just compensating for the fact that it never dropped to 68mA.

Theres another reason to choose a higher figure than the 69mA one. That being that the chair has a small drain current even when off. So may prevent the battery reaching this point. So the charge algo is a compromise. Also the voltage is a little less than 14.7 (29.4) too. Because the battery is typically a few degrees warmer than your room. If its summer, warmer than 25C this should be dropped to 14.4 (28.8) max.
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 29 Oct 2022, 19:19

After seeing the graph, you could reduce the TERMINATION/CURRENT by 30mA and test again on a similar recharge. To some benefit. It will add about an hour to the CV time hopefully.
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 30 Nov 2022, 12:43

R-Net settings.

1. Is there a way to stop the beeping when you have pressed the mode button and are scroling through standing sitting et cetera?

2. I am a C 4/5 tetraplegic. This is the 1st time I've had the assistance and time to properly go through the settings. And I must say, it is worth the effort.

I generally used to hit the doorways a little bit when I was rushing, and particularly when there was somebody walking behind me LOL. However, since setting the programme up like this, I really do appreciate getting the fine tuning right.

I do have 2 profiles "indoor" and "outdoor". I find this very good because there is just one button to press to switch between driving out and about, and when I get to my front door and coming in. And then there is the fine tuning for indoor and outdoor you can do. So for just driving around the house I will have it on the indoor profile on the highest speed setting. And then when I want to drive about with the drink on a tray on my knee without spilling it, I will put it on 1 of the lowest settings. And then when I'm struggling to get under a table, putting it on the slowest speed enables you to do so without knocking on the glasses everywhere.

Again on the outdoor, I generally use the highest speed but if the pavements are a bit rough for whatever I can knock it down a couple of speeds. Without going right down to the indoor speed.

I have it setup like this in both of my wheelchair is and find it very satisfying. Thanks for your help.
C4/5 tetra
BM 8 mph AMT Schmid 013552 R-net 150Ah lith
Tom BM clone 8mph linix, R-net odyssey batteries
Lifestand motion tech 5.6 mph R-net 112Ah lith
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 30 Nov 2022, 12:53

To set up fully how you want everything you really need a few months to fully learn and configure what is possible and best. And even then you wil likely want to make changes over time as you have new ideas.
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 30 Nov 2022, 13:31

Burgerman wrote:To set up fully how you want everything you really need a few months to fully learn and configure what is possible and best. And even then you wil likely want to make changes over time as you have new ideas.

1. Is there a way to stop the beeping when you have pressed the mode button and are scroling through standing sitting et cetera?
C4/5 tetra
BM 8 mph AMT Schmid 013552 R-net 150Ah lith
Tom BM clone 8mph linix, R-net odyssey batteries
Lifestand motion tech 5.6 mph R-net 112Ah lith
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 30 Nov 2022, 14:13

You can independently set the horn and beep volume.
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 30 Nov 2022, 14:39

Burgerman wrote:You can independently set the horn and beep volume.
thanks :thumbup:
C4/5 tetra
BM 8 mph AMT Schmid 013552 R-net 150Ah lith
Tom BM clone 8mph linix, R-net odyssey batteries
Lifestand motion tech 5.6 mph R-net 112Ah lith
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 02 Dec 2022, 03:14

More specifically those in yellow :
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 02 Dec 2022, 11:25

Doesn't it have a facility on this setup where the wheelchair will turn itself off after a set period of time, I can't find that so far. I did try a search for "off".

BTW I put the sounder volume to 0, and it switched it off altogether. :dance cheers

When does the actuator endstop beep? (I did had mine set to no, but have copied your suggestion now).
C4/5 tetra
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 02 Dec 2022, 13:36

When it senses rapid current rise when it turns off automatically. Not if microswitch endstop.

Yes it can be made to sleep after x time. Look at sleep and standby in the CONTROLS section, no idea what does what here never tried it.
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby wheelchairer » 04 Dec 2022, 10:42

And can I adjust any of these settings so it will let me know when the battery is is getting low earlier?
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Re: I wonder where they get their ideas from for this wheelc

Postby Burgerman » 04 Dec 2022, 11:05

With lithium?
You can play with the calibration factor. It will never be accurate whatever you do. Its expecting the curve, and the amount of voltage change due to surface charge and peukert and internal resistance to be that of a lead battery. None of which happens with lithium. So it will read high and low all at once most of the time regardless...
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