Quickie 222 Se - Squeaks !!!

[expresso]

Does anyone else have a 222 Se model - ? i recently got my new chair - maybe 4 months ago more or less - i had the 220 before and its still going strong

beside the speed on the 222 se which is great - i have alot of squeaks and its driving me crazy - i cant seem to get rid of them - when i ride - it sounds like a old rusty chair with the nosies - squeaks alot - but i check it and i dont see anything different from my 220 - everything seems strong etc, - it happens most when i am sitting in it - with the weight - and using it - even if you dont go over bumps cracks etc, - it still squeaks from moving indoors or shifting my body sometimes etc, - its not as bad when its a flat smooth surface - but outside with all the bumps etc, - and just the normal movements as you ride makes it squeak -

i sprayed my front forks suspension - didnt change - i sprayed a few other points under the chair -tilts area bolts etc, - and railings which it tilts on etc, - and nothing - but yet its a simple looking chair -

anyone else have this issue - other than the squeaks - its fine - any ideas - i really cant think of what i can do to get rid of them - it sounds as if the frame flexes etc, which i am sure it does some - but my 8 year old 220 never did it and dosnt squeak even now - nothing like this new chair -

any suggestions would be great -

thanks

[Burgerman]

Could be anything. A cover rubbing on the frame. A battery rubbing sagainst the casing, etc. You are just going to have to take it apart till you find it! Unfortunately.

[expresso]

i was worried i would hear that - your right - i just cant take it apart to figure it out - my plan is to just spray around for now - till i change out batteries - then the chair will come apart for that - i would check it then and see if i can figure it out - and hope i can get something resolved then -

i cant take it apart myself - i dont have anyone who i feel understands chairs etc, - willing - that i feel i can trust to take it apart - i have a tech comes to my home to do adjustments etc, when i need things - but no one is really familiar with this model and i rather now have him tear it apart till i need to take it apart for the battery change - i was hoping i get some input from someone who maybe has the same chair - same issue - could give me ideas

i didnt even want to post anything like this because there really isnt any answer - your answer is the best and only way to really work out the issue -

thanks - till i take it apart - i keep my ear plugs with music when i ride - i dont hear nothing then

[Burgerman]

Dip it in oil.

Probably still do it when you take it out...

[expresso]

i expect some noise of course - just sounds like its going to crack in half - or something old rusty metal -

my 8 year old 220 dosnt sound this bad - disappointed with this one - i wont get the model again - time for a change next time around - i noticed they offer the upgrade now on the 636 to high speed motors -

unless something new comes out - will be going with the 636 next chair - all well - i went with the same chair because i had a very good experince with the 220 - never let me down - was quick but not really fast - better than most chairs out there still - slim - easy and not much there which is better -

would have never though the same chair 8 years later with just faster motors - turn out to be so different - still a great looking chair - sporty - fast - etc, just squeaky

[LROBBINS]

Can you rig up an electronic stethoscope so you can listen to different spots on the chair while you're driving to try to spot where it's coming from? Ciao, Lenny

[expresso]

No - cant do - not only do i not have one of those devices - i couldnt do it either way - i have to take a look around when i change out my batteries - the chair would be apart then - and i can take a look and spray around more - best i can do -

if it works ok - if not - thats that - have to live with it for the next 5 years - just strange - who would have though - brand new chair - the design itself is more prone to flexing - because it comes apart - i never gave it a secound though because i had and still have the 8 year old model of the same chair and it dosnt do it -

i figure i get the same chair which served me well with no issues - and just faster - i guessed wrong - there QA must have gotten lower and tolerances lowered

not like it used to be -

[Burgerman]

He means something like a small microphone, and your walkman/mp3 player to listen to different areas.

[expresso]

oh haha - i didnt know -

i hear them under my seat area - if you know this model chair well - you would know what i am talking about - since the frame is two parts - upper part with the tilt which gets snapped on to the lower part -

every now and then - i get a itch and start to look around - then i just give up - i though it would have been easy - just spray every bolt - but didnt work - well i didnt do every bolt just yet -

i think the best thing is to take it apart and look it over - i can try to put something between the upper frame and lower case - like a cushion just to see if its the case flexing from the frame - or its in the case - like you said - batteries etc, -


i have a question off this topic for just a sec. - with battery chargers - what would be the highest amp battery charger i can use on my stock chair - plugged in the pilot plus - charging it just the way it is now -

i am using the 8 amp - just wondering if i can use a higher amp to get a faster charge with out changing anything on my chair -

is that possiable ? if yes - do you know of any chargers which i can look at ?

thanks - i am really trying to forget about the squeaks - lol -

hoping i can solve it one day -

[ex-Gooserider]

You really don't want to run more than about 8A through the XLR connector in the pod, as that is about all it's rated for. It is kind of a hack that they even use the XLR plug as a power connector, it really isn't intended for that use, it's usually an audio connector for microphones... The only real virtue of the XLR plug is that it has a very low insertion force, making it easier for those with low strength to plug it in.

If you want to charge faster, you should look into adding a set of Anderson connectors like BM describes on the main site...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

You can use better and faster chargers with these superior connectors. I charge mine in my van at 50 to 100 amps daily. And with a 30 amp charger at home.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/wheelch ... ectors.htm

and

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/faster- ... arging.htm

Should get you started! Nothing worse than being out of power and having to wait forever to charge up. Even your 8 amp charger will end its charge cycle much faster via some heavier connectors and thicker cables. Especially if you shorten its own output cable at the same time.

[expresso]

i was afraid of that -

i was hoping i could at least use a 12amp or 15 amp charger as is - i just leave it alone then - i understand it may be easy to do - but i am unable to do it myself for one - i can get a Tech. to maybe come do it for me - off the record - but in my chair - i will run into a few more issues - for one - my batteries are closed in the bottom half of my chair - in a case - - there are only two small holes in the case for the original wire to come out of - i have to take the case off to change the batteries and those other connections wont fit in the small hole - so i have to figure out another way or make a big hole -

if i were able to get down and do this work myself - i have no problem working around that - its not that serious for me - i do pretty well as is - but there are times which i could use a faster charger - since i have my old chair - i charge that every week also - so in worst chase - i switch - i got used to my new chair and the old one feels strange now - but dosnt squeak !!! -

i guess i leave it alone - thanks for the input -

[LROBBINS]

Your batteries will last a lot longer if you charge every night and all night even if you've only used your chair a very little bit that day. A lead-acid AGM or GEL or even free acid deep-cycle battery will last perhaps 900 cycles if never discharged more than 40% of capacity, near 600 cycles if discharged 60%, 400 cycles if discharged 90% and 200 cycles if fully discharged before being recharged. I think that those numbers from a manufacturer's tech manual are a bit optimistic, but you get the idea -- the more you let the battery discharge, and also the longer you leave it even partially discharged, the shorter it will live. A "cheap" battery will die even sooner.

If you are a light user and charge every night the batteries will last and last and last. If you really want to learn about batteries and charging, read over the information at the WheelchairDriver main site where Burgerman has collected a wealth of accurate information. DME dealers are, in general, a source of bad advice about batteries.

Ciao,
Lenny

[Burgerman]

That cycle life is very optimistic if you ask me!

But just keep them as full as humanly possible and you wont go wrong.

[expresso]

you hear all kinds of misleading info on this topic - the techs tell me - they have a set amount more or less cycles - so if you charge it each time - even if you didnt use it much - that would be a cycle - -

i dont take anything they say as truth - most think they are telling you the right information - because they believe it - but dont know if its really true - i charge it all the time also - when i cant go the distance as i am used to - then i call them for a new set -

i been using google map to give myself an idea of how many miles i did on a day out - i average about 12 miles - and a few times i stretched it to about 15 miles - i may be able to get a few more miles in - but didnt want to chance it - since the chair was in the yellow - dont want to be in Red and far from home -

i dont know if thats a decent amount or not - i know for sure my friend with the GB motors from invacare - her chair hardly breaks a sweat - she can go for a few days almost with out charging !!! - great battery life compared to my chair -

at the end of my day - i dont know if that would be 70% drained - ? more or less - speed feels fine but once i loose my greens - the rest go down fast -

[Sponge]

I've always found that creeks and squeeks are the result of bolts and nuts needing a little tighten, not lubed. Just a little tweek with a spanner, socket, or allen key whatever fits will usually do the job.

[LROBBINS]

I don't know if other manufacturers provide them, but Odyssey has a very complete technical manual for their Extreme batteries. If you can find one for yours, you won't have to rely on what people, either chair techs or your friends here, tell you. (Burgerman's battery pages DO contain reliable information.)

No, lead batteries to not have a fixed number of cycles in their life. The number of cycles one gets depends very much on depth of discharge. Less discharge = longer life.

Twelve miles + is pretty good, but current draw very heavily depends on weight and terrain. So a light user will use much less power than a heavy user, a chair with lift and tilt will use more (not so much for the actuators, but because they usually weigh a lot), turning on carpet will drain batteries quickly, going fast on a fairly level, hard and reasonably smooth surface will not. The GB motors are probably more efficient, but there's are also probably other factors with more effect in the difference between you friend's range and yours.

Ciao,
Lenny

[expresso]

I've always found that creeks and squeeks are the result of bolts and nuts needing a little tighten, not lubed. Just a little tweek with a spanner, socket, or allen key whatever fits will usually do the job.

everything was checked - my chair is pretty empty when you tilt it back all the way - not much there - i was afraid of bolts being loose etc, - but dont feel thats the case - at least not where i can see anything on the outside -

i have the chair for about 5 months and used it daily - long trips - bumps - etc, - if anything was loose - it would have fallen off by now every now and then - i try something - but cant go crazy over this - its one of those issues - cant see or feel etc, - nothing seems out of place - - when i change out the batteries - i can look better inside the battery box - etc, - look around more - till then - i can try WD40 - here and there -- maybe one day i get lucky -

or wait 5 years for a new chair - haha -

about the battery life - i am about 150 pounds - not heavy person - my chair is light compared to any other chair - invacare is about twice the weight - unless i go slower - and not speed all the time - i can make them last longer - for the 12 to 15 mile trips - at full speed all the time - they wont last that long

i programmed one mode to go slower - around 85% power - and lower the amps to about 70 amps - its normally 100 amp - does help alot -

[Burgerman]

You do realise that the slower you travel the less distance per charge you cover. I measured this with a clamp meter. It takes nearly as many amps to go 3mph as it does to go 6 or more. But at 6 you cover double the distance in the same time. Full speed IS the most economical at least at the speeds we travel at. At really high speeds where air drag is a major factor that wouldnt be true. But rolling resistance, and initial friction of setting off is greatest, and its pretty constant regardless of speed.

So I assure you that moving at 1 or 3 mph takes almost the same battery power (amps) as full speed does. At full speed the motors take about 10 amps. At 3mph they take about 7 or 8. Only take more to turn or climb ramps, or accelerate. So setting amps lower achieves only less torque on the bits where it is actually needed...

See here http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/motoramps.mp4

Greatest amps are turning, and on slopes, ramps, curbs etc. Everywhere else its minimal. And lowest at full speed.

[Sponge]

I think you may have misunderstood me, I'm not talking bolts loose enough for bits to fall off, just bolts that are 90% tight and simply need a tweek to nip them up tighter. It's been the cause of most noises like that for me. Anyway I hope you resolve it.
Cheers
Jeff

[expresso]

I agree with the ramps etc, taking the power away fast -- since i am in the city - we have plenty of ramps - broken but still there mostly - alot of bumps etc, - cracks - stopping and going - its true when i do go on one of my long trips -
i tend to ride out of the way and smoother ground if i could - i am sure that has alot to do with me getting the more miles -

and about the bolts - your right - i can have my Tech when he comes back to give them a check - if he has time to do it - he has to come back to finally add my joystick bracket which i finally got done - he was here last week and no bolts to mount it !!! everything takes a half dozen trips before they get it right - its amazing -

when he comes back for that - i have him him check the bolts if he has time - he also has to tighten my forks - i noticed they make noise also - and he lifted the front off the ground and they are loose - too much play on the left one - the right one is a little less play but still there - i hope he can just tighten the nut on the fork and solve that one -

now this is how the chair arrived - i noticed it right away - but didnt think nothing of it yet - since i got the suspension forks on this one - never had them before- wasnt sure thats how they worked or not - plus got tired of waiting for the chair and used it all summer - lol -

now winter coming - if he can solve it in my home ok - if not - take it and fix it right - still have my back up - i just hate when they take it- gets scratched during transit alot of times - i also think the area that connects the top part to the bottom is a spot where i can check for the squeaks - but wont bother taking it apart till a battery change - will have to break it down then - i really dont trust all these Tech guys all that much

[Burgerman]

I dont trust them at all.

Get a cheap eBay spare chair. Or two. Make them servicable. Fix bearings, tyres, anything faulty, program them to steer, and just stick some cheap or old batteries in. Keep charged.

You then have a spare chair that you know is mechanically good. It allows you to use it to keep your best chair in tip top order and super clean. Then rebuild the third one! Dont worry if you cant physically do it, you need only a brain, and a small boy, carer, or helper!

This stuff is pretty much essential if you rely on a chair full time. Its your legs. I know you have one, so make it better than your new one! Rebuild!

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/backup-powerchair.htm

[expresso]

i am with you - its alot to get done - and i mean finding someone to do it - and understand what you are asking them to do etc, - being on the same page - not easy to find someone these days - thats one of the hardest parts - then having the space - to do this -

i live in an apt. - if i really had to do something - i could work around things and have the chair in the middle of the room for a while till its done - if i had a Home with Room and one good person who understands common sense -
then yeah - would be great to fix one up better than new -

i keep my back up clean - charged - i know it worked and should work if i ever need it - hopefully i wont - actually on my next chair - i am going to change out the model - will be going with the 636 if its still around by then -

i had this frame since the start and time for a new frame - new look for me - i think would be less prone to flexing with the 636 -

[malamar]

live in an apt. - if i really had to do something - i could work around things and have the chair in the middle of the room for a while till its done - if i had a Home with Room and one good person who understands common sense -
then yeah - would be great to fix one up better than new -

Completely agree Practically parallel life, squeaks included...

[expresso]

True - if you have the help and know how - from the help - you can make it happen -

[expresso]

Hey Burgerman - Remember i been waiting on a bracket for my pilot joystick - well - i finally got it installed yesterday -- raises the joystick one inch inside and one inch higher up - much better position -

now i have to work and figure out how i can get it closer to my arm pad -- since i have the toggle switch -- its keeping me from bringing it closer because i need to swing it away also - and hits my armpad which then turns it off - !!!

getting closer but not there yet - i am thinking of changing out the armpad to reg. ones which are not as thick - i have the Waterfall model - to see if the thinner ones clear the toggle - then i have to see how i feel - since any little change - even as minor as a armpad - changes everything for me - how i sit - how i get off the chair etc, - mines are the long model 14 inches -

if that dosnt work - i was thinking of trying a shorter waterfall model which is 10 inches long - see if that would work out - but i notice i use it for my wrist support also - i cant have a big gap between arm pad and joystick -

and last option - would be to get the toggle removed - which my tech really didnt want to play with that - he would have to take it apart - unsolder it etc, - with my luck - something would go wrong - then i need a new joystick - and be out of my new chair for a long time -

or i was thinking of having him just cut the toggle a bit - making it shorter - ? since i really dont use it - i have the power buttons on top etc, - i just wanted my speed pod - but it came with both -

so what do you suggest ? any ideas - or i can cut my current arm pad to bring the joystick closer - but may look stupid and may fall apart sooner -

its a work in progress - also turns out my forks have a little too much play in them - makes noise - he checked and will get new spacers - washers etc, to replace - all on a brand new chair -

i have another guestion - about the joystick knob - mines came with the rubber one - which actually came off my joystick last night - - i know once that starts - matter of time before it keeps coming off - on my older chair - i had the hard knob on the joystick - which i did like better - but i think that one screws down onto it -

and i notice mines dosnt have grooves to screw it down - just smooth shaft and you push the rubber knob down on it - would i be able to put the hard type in place of the rubber one i have now with out taking the joystick apart or changing anything from the inside ?

i am not looking to have it taken apart for just the knob - its not that serious but would be good if i could swap it out easily on my own --

thanks

[Burgerman]

Not sure from your description what you are asking. If you have a toggle switch (for what?) in the way, just undo it, push it inside. Or move it to a better place. Ir fit a different switch like the ones in my new "home made" pod. I just threw away all the pilot plus electronics, joystick, etc and fitted my own.

Maybe one of the latching switches used here would be better. It would take a competant tech guy around 10 mins to remove the toggle and replace with these instead. Or to move it. But that needs a hole drilling as well. These "tech" guys are all seriously useless. Never met one with a clue yet. And I have met and spoke to a lot!

You could explain the thing a bit better so I am sure of what you want, then send me it... ? What does the toggle do? Wouldnt a flat push button work better like these I fitted here?

[expresso]

hey sorry - need to explain better - i think everyone has the same - this is original joystick - both my joysticks have the toggle switch to turn the chair on and off - and the speed knob to the right of that -

now the toggle switch is sticking out behind the joystick - which limits me how close i can bring the joystick to my armpad - if i didnt swing it away - it would work but since i need it to swing away - the joystick cant be brought in closer to my armpad because of the toggle

this is how it comes on the order form - it had two options - since i wanted the speed knob - i had to get the toggle switch also - -

being that i have the waterfall arm pads - they are very thick - - i am thinking of changing the armpads to the normal size models which are thinner and maybe i can bring it closer and would swing away with no problem - thats what i am hoping for -

i also was thinking of using the same waterfall armpad but get the standard size desk which is 10 inches long compared to 14 which i have now - but then will have a larger gap between armpad and joystick - and i may need support for my wrist - which i may not have then - but may solve my joystick being closer and swingaway also -


- i asked two different questions and its confusing the way i asked them -


the other question was about the joystick knob on top which you hold to move the chair - my new chair has the pilot plus - which has a rubber knob - its one pieace and it just came off -- i can push it back on - but once that starts - wont be long before i loose it

on my old chair - it has a harder plastic knob and skirt - looks like the one i see in your pictures of your chair - i want to replace my rubber knob with the same one as yours - and the same one i have on my old chair - but my concern is this -

my new chair - the knob just pulls right off - its not screwed down etc,

on my old chair with the knob i would like to use - i cant pull it off - it seems to be screwed down - it just dosnt come off - so now i am concerned that i wont be able to use that type on my pilot joystick - but i see it on other pilot joysticks -

i am looking to order the parts - but cant get an answer from the parts dept. tech. support etc, - if it will work or not - they just give you a part number which dosnt show the part i am looking for -

[Burgerman]

All pilot knobs pull off. Some easier than others.

If its loose just use some glue. I still have no idea what a waterfall has to do with anything? Do you have a camera? Does it need that toggle switch? Just remove it? Or move it. Its pretty simple to do either. Take it apart, 4 screws. Look inside, nothing scary!

[Ashley G]

I think "waterfall" might refer to the design of the armrest which, being bigger than his previous style, now catches his "power on/off" switch when he swings the pod away ?

That toggle switch will be moveable, much as John (BM) said earlier. I bet it's only held in place with a screw collar in any case.

If your techie is afraid of opening the pod, moving the switch and resealing the pod then you may need a braver techie. Still, better that than one of the gung-ho types who jump in with screwdriver and hammer before deciding he is stuck ....

I wonder how many wires he thinks need soldering ?

ADDED: You can probably sit the joystick in place better if you put a smidgeon of contact adhesive around the central pin, from the top to half way down, let it sit a few mins, and then slide the rubber joystick on.

That adhesive usually comes with instructionsnto let it dry "tacky" before closing the surfaces to be joined. Remembering that you want to slide the rubber boot down over that pin, do NOT let it dry tacky first !! Just let is set a few mins and then go for it

Regards

Ashley