WheelchairDriver

http://www.ottobock.com/cps/rde/xbcr/ob ... ur_web.pdf

It is like a car but slower

Its a quad bike with a small petrol engine with limited speed. And a windscreen. I would guess it costs an arm and a leg, but at least its got sensible range, and isnt trying to do off road with battery power!

I could build one out of a cheap chinese twist n go electric start quad bike for about 10x less money though... I also couldnt get in it if I did.

So for those that have the money, a means of getting in and out, and a means to transport it, and somewhere to use it it would be great as long as that 15kph didnt drive you nuts.

It costs a whopping 30000 euros. You could get in it as a seat slides forward (electronically controlled), but for that money i would want it to lick my toes and go at least 100km p/h so i could safely use it on the road.

299 uk pounds / euros gets you an electric start 4 stroke twist and go quad bike. Basically the same running gear as that device uses.

Then throw 1000 pounds/eusos at it to fit a car type seat, and a windscreen... Buy 2 spare ones. And thats 10% of the price!

All these things do is make me dream of crap I can never afford. 30k euros That's about my share of the national debt, so I'm told. Dreams cost nothing! Frustration sucks.
What's that gadget hooked on the back? Slide back and forth seat, holy crap a mini Bat Mobile.

I'll take 2 one for the wife! ......................Just kidding!

While wandering around I found this take a look;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euXQHC1gVLY

There are several other videos of the same gadget

They keep calling it a wheelchair. Its not.

There are hundreds of huge non wheelchair buggies that go off road. For much less cost.

Absolutely no arguement from me on that BM. What I did see that interested me a lot was the generator placed in the back of that buggy. It was one of those look alike Honda low RPM/noise 1KW gen sets. The US gov used to make 24VDC gen sets as a FYI. I wonder if Honda does as well.

A 24VDC would be pretty convenient rather than a 110VAC and all the stupid electronic stuff to make it do what we want.

http://www.powerchair-review.co.uk/powe ... engine.htm

24v dc 28.8v actually, can be made using 2 motorcycle voltage regulators in series, driven from one set of 3 phase windings.

And a 22cc 4 stroke motor as I did here 14 years ago! http://www.powerchair-review.co.uk/powe ... engine.htm

Did you ever get that motor / genny set running? The page ended before you got it finished since the parts needed wouldn't go on your lathe...

If so, did it work out and how practical was it?

The rest of it was pretty interesting as an early evolution of the BM1.

(BTW, I liked those orange tires.... kind of cute, and nice for visibility...)

ex-Gooserider

Yes got it running. Generator worked great as a charger for 2 batteries. But. Couldnt live with the voltage sag caused by fitting 2 batteries of half the capacity. Wheelies? Forget it. So never fitted it. Decided that lithium or fast charge in my van was a better option. You cant say I didnt try it though!

Thanks, nice to know how it worked out (or failed to) just as a data point of what is worth trying or not...

It might be a semi-reasonable solution for those folks that want to do an electric "all-terrain" chair... I've seen some objections to your recommendation of going to petro power based on resrictions on the use of petro-power devices in the places the user wanted to go... A generator that recharges an electric vehicle is a possible way of doing an "end run" around that sort of restriction.

It's not exactly the same thing, but we have a local lake that only allows boats with sails, paddles, or electric trolling motors. Gas motors are strictly prohibited... At one point when we were discussing a possible bylaw change related to this, I specifically asked our Police Chief about having a gas generator that recharged an electric battery, and he said there was no way they could prohibit that...

ex-Gooserider

Goose,

My thoughts exactly.

BM, you say you used smaller batteries and battery sag because of that I kind of get that. Couldn't you still use series24 batteries and hang the little gen set off the back somehow? Doesn't the gen set pump in more (amps) power than you would use under normal straight ahead operation. What did you get for volts and amps produced by your gen set?

Inquiring minds want to know.

OK. Batteries (lead) struggle (even Odyssey) at the sort of currents a properly set up powerchair pulls. To fit the generator takes exactly the size of one group 24 battery. Thats why I went to the trouble of converting a small 22cc motor with a high reving motor and small powerful bike charging system with 2x 12v regulator/rectifiers. (so very compact compared to a typical generator)

The motor when running made 14.45v from each solid state rectifier unit. These were from a 750 honda VFR V4 Motorcycle. Each was connected to 1 battery. Now...

ON THE BENCH (I never mounted the home made generator) the thing kept the batteries at 14.45v each even under load if I took out some power to run the hyperions. They each seemed to be good for about 10 to 15 amps easily. As I could take that out without the voltage dropping. So it behaved just like a car alternator.

Why didnt I fit it? Because I dried driving the chair around with a pair of 40Ah Odyssey batteries. Gutless didnt begin to describe that! Its simple not adequate.

So the chair NEEDS a bare minimum or a pair of odyssey group 34 batteries to behave well. Or volt drop is too much for my style of abuse. The chair feels like its connected to the joystick "vaguely" rather than directly.

If there was room to hang it on the back, then I would already have fitted bigger batteries...

Hence the move to lithium, and fast charge lead to keep up with my daily life!

Why use the Hyperion and just use gen to regulators into the power feed system? Or am I being naieve to think that is all that is needed?
My thought process says put an unsightly removable basket on the back put in the genset and regulators, set to 28.8 DCV connected with some 6/8ga wires and anderson plugs.
I have spent some time trying to find the schematics of electric boats with similar set ups. Without much success.

I know the US Govt. used such things in WW2 to power small transmitters. Perhaps they would be too large anyway. The Honda 1000 Watt 110VAC is almost a good idea. I saw one a while back, I wish I had bought it when I saw it, but it was a 12VDC cranking about 1000 watts If I remember right. There is a large reservation near me that is open to the public, with trails and everything just shy of 100,000 acres, miles of roads, not terribly difficult to travel. All sorts of hunting possibilities during the various open seasons, and just simply riding other times.

I had to get rid of my boat, because I couldn't properly maintain it, or move about it very well in the water, it was rather expensive but I would sacrifice other things if it were not entirely dangerous for me to do. I still have this riding to look forward to.

It makes sense why you wouldn't want to use it from what you describe of your needs - however it also sounds like you have higher performance expectations...

From your past descriptions, I know that a chair has very high peak power demands, but my understanding is that the average is a lot less. I'm assuming that the generator you made was the approximate equivalent of a 15A @ 24VDC charger.

If one had an infinitely long extension cord, would a 15A charger be enough to keep a chair with typical motors, controller, etc., at something close to full charge if you were driving around with it plugged in?

IOW, would that be enough that if one was to hang it off the back of a mobility buggy like described in some of the earlier posts or maybe an X-5 chair, to make up for the power it consumed and keep it going a long ways in the woods? Wouldn't even really need to be a total charge, just enough to say get the kind of range you might expect from a tank of gas in a typical petro ATV before the batteries were down to the discharged level...

If one had an infinitely long extension cord, would a 15A charger be enough to keep a chair with typical motors, controller, etc., at something close to full charge if you were driving around with it plugged in?

My calculations say it would be adequate to keep up on the street but maybe not off road. Then as you stop for a beer it will catch up. You can just connect via andersons but its too heavy, too big, makes the chair into an unweildy elephant! If you are going to do that you could also fit bigger batteries. It would extend range almost indefinitely, if you dont mind the bigger heavier longer chair, and noise.

If you feed 10A cont to the system then thats 100Ah every 10 hours.
About the same rate you use batteries on long straight runs or over a days stop start use. So yes it should keep up.

But extra mass, noise and fuss deemed it a step too far! Good for an experiment but would be a pain in daily use.

Its like my 15mph chair. Its EASY to make it do 50mph just to impress people with speed with those batteries. At the cost of drivabolity and range, and battery longevity, etc. But I want a good balance, an ultimate 24/7 powerchair. With good all day usability, good if not huge range, good manoeverability and ultimate accurate control indoors, and a long service life.

Adding a generator if it didnt add weight, or size by using smaller batteries would be a good idea. With modern lithium batteries having hugely less voltage drop under load, and zero peukert, it may now actually be practical.

I dont even use grp 24 GEL batteries like MK because I want the control. With those fitted I cannot accurately wheelie through doorways and swerve and stop or accurately predict where I will end up! I am inch perfect and fly arund the house at full speed often on two wheels, between furniture and door frames etc. Gels feel like I have about 2/3rds the control when pressed hard. Too much voltage sag when you need it. So not predictable enough to have accurate control. Gel batteries cost me door frames and knuckles! No programming can change this last bit of the problem. Fitting Odyssey batteries of half the size felt much like that but even worse. Lack of accurate control.

OK.... Interesting experiment. I don't think it would be much use for me, but I could see where others might find it useful, as in Sully's post a little earlier.

I wouldn't see it as a great day-to-day solution, but as something one could hang off the back of the chair (maybe like a repurposed vent tray?) it might be ideal for those needing occasional long-range capability for woods roving or other outdoor activities.... (It might be great at Burning Man )

ex-Gooserider

I saw picts of a Pride Wrangler huge electric scooter like mine. It's Rear wheel drive, 2 group 27 SLA batteries. He camopainted it & put knobbies on it to go archery deer hunting. The photo spread included a buck. Low range goes 5 mph/high to 10mph.