Desparate

[crippleshot]

Could someone help me, PLEASE. Before my accident in 2005, I was an avid outdoorsman. I loved my solitary treks through the forest. After my accident, I placed ALL of my hopes and dreams on the ability to return to my beloved woods using one of the all-terrain power-chairs on the market. But after reading, it seems, EVERY review about the ones I had my eye on, in particular, the Viking 4x4, the Terrain Hopper and the Action Track Chair, my "hopes" have been shattered and my "dreams" have become nightmares. It appears that not any of the ones listed can fullfill my needs. Mostly due to shortages of power, battery charge and battery life. I have saved for eight long years. Pinning my hopes on apparrant, false advertising. If there IS something out there that could make my dream come true, PLEASE, point me in the right direction. I guess you could classify my terrain as moderate to slightly, rough. And I have, almost saved enough to buy one of the three listed. So, I guess, if any of your ideas are more than the three listed (appr. $10,000 U.S.) they would be out of my price range. Unless, of course, I save some more. If I need to save another eight years, I would be in my 60s. I might be too old, considering my condition. I would much rather stay in listed price range so I could get one now! Please someone help me. Anyone?!!

[Burgerman]

All will work. To a point. Problem is that lead batteries are barely capable on a smooth surface, with easy to turn and steer casters. So as soon as you show it any heavy going its dead battery time.

And a mobility controller doesn't have adequate power ON the road.
So to get adequate torque they need to be geared stupidly slow. Or the batteries last even less and the torque you need is non existent. And the controller will overhead and roll back power.

Most off road stuff is badly made/designed or has little backup & companies often vanish in a year.

There is no exceptions to this unless you can find something with a powerful NON mobility controller, preferably brushless motors, and a BIG lithium battery. And to be stable off road it needs a big planform.

So test and try as many as you want but don't be too surprised when they are all hype and little real world use.

Search OFF ROAD or ALL TERRAIN and you almost never see anything that is battery powered. Because piston engines are powerful and light. So they work well off road. And range is no issue.

batteries and battery power (especially lead) is super heavy, and stores little power. Have a look at modifying a cheap electric start twist and go quad bike or similar.

Of course it depends on how off road you intend to go. And on your expectations. This is just a field with the dog, and a normal wheelchair. www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/dogwalk.mp4

[falco peregrinus]

Perhaps we need to know a little more about your disability before any of us can offer meaningful advice on alternatives. Petrol off-road is definitely the superior choice, providing you're allowed to take petrol devices where you want to go (registered only? unregistered permitted/ not permitted?), but the choice narrows depending upon your disability. For example, are you capable of getting yourself on and off a motorbike-like device? If some means was found to get you onto/ into an offroad vehicle of some sort, are you capable of supporting the upper portion of your body by yourself whilst hanging on to whatever the means of steering is? Do you have any use of your legs, or must all controls be by hand? Do you have full use of both hands, or only one? Do you have to sit IN the device, or could you sit ON it? etc etc etc.
Falco

[crippleshot]

Thank you Burgerman and Falco Peregrinus. I see your point, Falco. Due to previous problems with C6, 5, 4 and 3, I suffered impact damage to the spinal cord. I, also broke my back at T12 and L1. Most of the damage occurred at C6. I can walk for VERY short distances but I am a terrible fall risk due to balance issues. I can move my arms and legs but have the strength of a small child. My right ankle/foot and my right hand are totally paralyzed. The left hand is usable but weak. My core muscles are weak, too. Necessitating I be IN something as oppossed to ON something. I would, also, like to add that I am talking about very short distances, here. I own 4 acres and would, probably, never venture any further than that. Would this make the purchase of one of the above mentioned devices more feasible? Or would I STILL be wasting my money?

[Burgerman]

Only you can decide. But at least you have an understanding of the issues. Short distances, low off road expectations? Should be OK...

But test them.

[falco peregrinus]

If you're happy to restrict yourself to your own property, and can carry a mobile phone with you to call someone if you get into trouble or get a flat battery, I would think that any of the chairs you've been looking at would be ok. After all, on your own property, you can restrict use of the off-road chair to outside the house, which means it doesn't have to have enormous battery capacity.
Falco

[ex-Gooserider]

Four acres isn't much - an electric off road chair MIGHT be enough for that, depending on how long you wanted to stay out, and the amount of moving you did during that time...

Petrol would be better, but would be more of a challenge given the described ability. Seating would probably be easiest, I'd take off the stock seating and figure out how to graft rehab seating from a power-chair on. The big problem would be control systems, which would need to include throttle / brakes, steering, and possibly gear selection (They do make some automatic tranny machines, or possibly given the relatively small property, just leave it in one of the lower gears)

I'd expect that the control interface would want to be some sort of low effort joystick variant, so presumably it would be necessary to rig up some sort of actuators for throttle / brake. and a second set for steering... I know how it could be done, but it wouldn't be easy...

ex-Gooserider

[garriew]

I have never used the site below but they could make you one. I *think* for around 3k if you provide a power chair. (Get one from a pawn shop or craigs list.)

http://dmeofsouthamerica.vpweb.com/default.html

[Sully]

I have while reading many posts on different sites heard of a few folks who had a hard time with this chair recycling group. The problem is we often hear of someone's frustrations, with a business, but not if there was a solution to those frustrations. Just bear this in mind if and when you try to do business with them; http://dmeofsouthamerica.vpweb.com/default.html

As Goose said 4 acres is not a huge area, you didn't share your weight with us, but a 180# man might consider buying a used heavy duty chair fitted with over width drive tires and also some over sized casters will probably suit you right now.

What happens if and when you grow tired of operating in this restricted area? If you choose a good frame with suitable HD drive motors, maybe you can adapt your chair of choice with lithium batteries and a suitable controller.

Now if you cannot easily transfer from one chair to another, which may eventually become a chore, then one of the BM design models might suit you better. Most of the time 4WD chairs (Skid Steer type) use too much battery for the distance traveled, and a well balanced 2 wheeler (like the BM designs) will get you where you want to go, if you pay attention to your traveling surface.

[Willywonka1968]

For an off the shelf 2wd/4wd chair, I can vouch for the fieldmaster 224. Depending on your weight and off road terrain, you should get 2 hrs + from new 80 ah batteries.

Put it in 2wd and I did a 20km drive with new batteries on flat Tarmac.

[MX555]

Has any suggested a "Bounder wheelchair?" http://wheelchairs.com/ They cost a lot though.

[Sully]

MX555,

Your last sentence says it all. Some of the models are a bit too wide for comfortable indoor use. However, they are rugged from all I have read about them. Many folks recommend them for off the sidewalk use. Price is a killer for me.

[FUBAR]

Hello:

Not sure if you have a chair yet, but if not:

Don't give up yet....There are some very useful off-road chairs out there that will provide a lot of freedom. I was wounded in Iraq and have used an Extreme 8 for almost 5 years, and I just received an Action Trackstander. Have also test rode a few other "off-road" chairs but the two listed are the best I have used.

I have much more experience with the Extreme 8, and these are just my opinions based on my needs, and of course my limitations/abilities...

I have used the Extreme 8 (E8 for short) for hunting in the Ozark's, south Texas brush, and in the west Texas mountains/high desert. First thing I did was change the tires, to wider, stiff, more aggressive tires that can run flat for a while if required. Flats were a problem until I made the change. Have went almost 11 miles on a trail and used it to hunt and explore a 1200 acre ranch in the Ozark's, pull deer out of creeks and work my way through sand and brush on an 8000 acre ranch in south Texas. I really don't know how far it will go on a single charge, but more than 11 miles, and I have used it all day long in my 1 acre yard without a charge, even while pulling my yard wagon.


Now some good and bad:

I did break a bolt on the steering rod on the E8 but that was on a night time wild bore hunt using night vision, the terrain went from rocks to mud bogs and I hit more rocks than I missed. Started carrying a tool kit and some extra bolts after that.

Having a motor on each wheel the E8 will climb almost anything, or at least until it flips or falls over. In fact falling off, and/or turning it over is a problem and it's worse with a camping pack strapped to it.

It's also fairly fast for a 4x4 chair, mine will do almost 10 mph with the tires aired up. The E 8 has 5 selectable gear modes and it seems to deliver full power even on the slowest setting. I have turned it over several times and climbed things that I did not really intend on climbing. Flats are a very bad problem with the original tires...

Now comparing the E8 the Action Trackstander (ATS for short):

E8 11-15k depending on options...

ATS 17-20k depending on options and they have some very good options (the standard Action Trackchair is just a little more than the E8).

The ATS is better in mud and in some types of sand, I also suspect it's better in snow...

To my surprise the E8 is capable of traversing more obstacles, but is much more unstable than the ATS.

The ATS is more stable than the E8 , and much harder to turn over. Adding a camping pack does not affect it as much (non-standing).

The ATS is very easy to drive on flat terrain but take some practice on obstacles, it can beat a person up because it operates like a tank. When the chair breaks It's center of balance it can come down hard, with some practice

There are no tires on the ATS to go flat!

The ATS makes a better shooting platform (for me).

The ATS is a very rough noisy ride compared to the E8

I spent a day on my ATS adding nylon washers to bolts and joints and using zip ties to make it a little more quite.

The ATS is a very well thought out hunting/fishing platform and has very good options.

The ATS ability to stand a person up is outstanding!

The ATS speed is slow and slower.....plus the power is reduced with each slower mode so it stalls with ease in the lower modes.

The batteries do not last nearly as long as the E8 without a charge.

My biggest issue with the ATS is that it stalls in full power mode way to easy on obstacles, and that requires the operator to constantly back up or turn to get the thing to continue to move. This is a problem for me, because it use my chair a lot in rough terrain and it's frustrating to be climbing an obstacle and the thing just stop going forward! I'm sure it's a safety or power saving thing but it's a big issue for me.

The ATS suits my needs more and is safer for me than the E8, but that's me...the E8 is still a fine 4x4 machine for rough terrain.


Regards,

Andy

Wounded Warrior Alumni