Please help, Storm4 or JiveR2 (SalsaR2)?

[adam76]

I’ve got to get a new chair and wheelchair services have given me a choice between Invacare or Sunrise medical wheelchairs. I've narrowed it down to either the Invacare Storm4 or the Quickie JiveR2. I'm in a Storm3 at the moment so thought the Storm4 would probably be the one that suited me best until I found out that it is longer and 40kg heavier! I did have a short go in the storm4 (the buggers at wheelchair services don't give you long do they!) I have to admit is was quite a smooth ride but the weight will probably be an issue as l often have to get mates to lift the back of my chair up when getting into inaccessible houses and pubs.
I tried the Quickie JiveR but unfortunately it turns out that the JiveR has just been replaced by the JiveR2 and this has a smaller chassis which makes me wonder if it’s going to be less stable on rough ground? The rep didn't have a JiveR2 for me to try so bought out a SalsaR2 instead. He tells me they are exactly the same, the only difference being that the JiveR2 has better motors, fatter tyres and lights. The SalsaR2 didn't feel quite as smooth a ride as the original JiveR I tried but maybe that's just down to the fact that the SalsR2 had thinner solid tires and the JiveR had pneumatic ones that weren't pumped up properly! If any of you reading this use a Storm4, JiveR2 or SalsaR2 I'd really appreciate some reviews.
Cheers
Adam

[Burgerman]

I have played with 2 those chairs - not the new one. And can tell you that a quick test wont really tell you much at all.

Tiny changes to spec, such as seat position and type, as well as controller type and programming, tyre or caster options make a monumental difference the the usability and character of the thing.

I can say the storm 4 is very nose heavy... That's a good thing for some, but the exact opposite to what I want.

Weight? Mostly down to batteries, motors and additional crap for seating/lighting. Faster chairs are preferable, but that means biggest batteries (or range is a problem)and bigger controllers and bigger heavier 4 pole motors used with bigger tyres, wheels and casters. And sometimes suspension. It depends what is more important to you.

[adam76]

Thanks burgerman
I've only ever had two chairs, the first was a StormXR which was given as a gift and when that needed replacing I just naively went with the new model that was the Storm3 thinking it would just be better, how wrong l was! It was loads more bouncy but now l’m used to it and l’m a bit nervous about changing to a different chair and finding it’s not as good as this one. l live in the countryside and need my chair to be able to go up steep hills and also over some fairly rough ground, my friend lives at the end of a rough track and l often go to events that are held in fields. My storm3 has been fine in all these areas.
You say the storm4 is nose heavy what are the plus/minus points of that?
Are the motors that Invacare and Sunrise medical use of the same standard?
If you had the same batteries, motors and controllers in each chair could you get the ride roughly the same?
My other question is about tires, I've only ever used solid tires, are the risk of punctures outweighed by the benefits of having pneumatic ones? and is there much difference in having solid or pneumatic castors?
Sorry if my questions are a bit dumb but as you can probably guess I'm not very technically minded!

[Burgerman]

>>>You say the storm4 is nose heavy what are the plus/minus points of that?

Steers worse, as the drive wheels have less weight and are swinging the front about with you sat over it...
Uneven ground causes a rear wheel to lift instead of a caster and you have less control and my swing left or right...
If a small caster runs over soft ground its more inclined to sink...

>>>Are the motors that Invacare and Sunrise medical use of the same standard?

The question isn't really meaningful.

>>>If you had the same batteries, motors and controllers in each chair could you get the ride roughly the same?

The ride would not be. The range, acceleration, control (mostly), reliability, speed and torque would be the same.

>>>My other question is about tires, I've only ever used solid tires, are the risk of punctures outweighed by the benefits of having pneumatic ones?

Your choice. But... There are good tyres and bad. There are tubed and tubeless. There are skinny hard and low pressure fat tyres. There are Kevlar reinforced puncture proof tyres. Its all a compromise.

>>>and is there much difference in having solid or pneumatic castors?

Solid casters give a jarring ride. And tend to be in smaller sizes normally but not always. BIGGER caster and pneumatic casters give a better ride. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/dogwalk.mp4 shows a chair that is not nose heavy, with fat low pressure tyres (inc casters). These work because the chair is very light on the front. Opposite to a storm4.

[ex-Gooserider]

RWD chairs will tend to be better, at least in theory, than mid-wheel chairs on rough surfaces if you are trying not to get stuck... The more of your weight you have on the drive wheels, the better your traction - all else being equal.

Being nose heavy defeats this as it means less weight is on the drive wheels, and it increases the odds of the casters digging into any soft stuff...
Down side of having most of the weight on the drive wheels is that it makes the chair more tippy / wheely prone - BM probably sets his chairs up to be worse in this regard than most of the rest of us would be comfortable with, but it isn't neccessary to be that extreme.
On SOME chairs, depending on the chair design, and how complex any seating options are, it is possible to move the seat back which shifts the center of gravity and can correct the overly nose heavy problem to at least some degree.

Mid-wheels are probably worst for getting stuck as they put the least weight on the drive wheels to begin with, and if getting on a ramp or other height change, or if on soft stuff the casters can "bridge" and reduce the drive wheel traction even more...

ex-Gooserider

[falco peregrinus]

I've got a 4-wheels-on-the-ground midwheel with two riders poking out the front. I've never got stuck yet, but I've heard the footrest scrape a few times on bad pram ramps. I can't stand these 6-wheels-on-the-ground midwheels - I think they're crazy! My wife's got one of those and the damned thing is so prone to losing traction! Don't tell her, but I adjusted the tension on the rear castors to lessen the problem for me when I had to move it without her in it; that helped a lot. Still, I really don't want a 6-wheels-on-the-ground myself, and I'm trying to pick up another 4-on-the-ground mid-wheel to have as a spare for me, but they're as scarce as hen's teeth at a sensible price. In fact, they're pretty scarce on eBay Australia period! (Unless you're prepared to settle for one that only has room for 34Ah batteries, which I am not. I want to put my 51Ah batteries in it.)
Falco

[Burgerman]

38Ah? 51Ah?

I couldn't use a chair without 70Ah batteries or more. I ate all the pies.

[falco peregrinus]

38Ah? 51Ah?

I couldn't use a chair without 70Ah batteries or more. I ate all the pies.

I've got the opposite problem - after my health started heading downhill rapidly a few years back, I LOST weight - and a lot of it. And I've never managed to put much of what I lost back on. 51Ah does me fine - most days I get home and put the chair on to charge and I've still got most, if not all, of my LEDs illuminated. I can get by without the chair around the house (some days, only just!) - which is why I have to self-fund my chairs: because I don't need one around the house I don't qualify for government provision of a wheelchair. So the batteries get a fairly easy life most of the time. 51Ah is enough to get me through a pretty gruelling day out in my present primary chair. (I think there's room in there for a 70Ah if I ever need it.) For some reason that I've never fathomed out, it isn't anywhere near enough in my backup chair (an ancient Quickie), which is why I'm looking for a replacement for it.
Falco.

[Burgerman]

Just keep it and fit lithium. Cheaper long term anyway...