WheelchairDriver

Just been reading up about the Q6 Edge and Q6 Edge 2 chairs from Pride- are they good chairs? Is the Q6 Edge 2 available in Europe?

Well other than they are pride (mostly marketing is what they do best) then no but that means that you wont get hold of a OEM programmer and so it will always drive like a pig on roller skates. Like all stock chairs.

Yes, I've seen Pride are good at marketing- never had one of their chairs. Was just checking them out via the video. I know someone who has a Q6 Edge and another person who's going to get one in a few months. Years ago, I was recommend a Quantum 600- never bought it though (got a different chair). My chair is from Sunrise Medical and had it 8 years and only just now need a new one: sure, I've replaced stuff, but the motors and batteries are fine still. Most of the people I know have Invacare chairs.

8 years with the same batteries and the same motors! - What a light user...

I replace lead batteries every 18 months and motors every 2 years.

Pride chairs can not be programmed due to software differences, so I would never buy them.

I had a Quantum chair for about six months in 2009. What a disaster! I will say that their footplates are better made than Sunrise -- at least in the US -- but the chair itself was really a joke. Also, the Edge is MWD, correct? If you're going to torture yourself like that you might as well get a Permobil. Also, no way will the Edge last as long as your Sunrise chair. In general there is no reason to risk a Quantum chair. Invacare has a reputation of being more solid than Sunrise, although, of course, in the US Invacare had problems with flammability

CPguy wrote:I replace lead batteries every 18 months and motors every 2 years.

Do you replace full motors or just only their brushes every 2 years?

Motors / gearbox complete, with strengthened coupling, as well as tyres (x4) and all chassis bearings, upholstery, every part re powder coated, new stainless and polished, greased bolts, and anything that doesn't look factory fresh.

Burgerman wrote:Motors / gearbox complete, with strengthened coupling, as well as tyres (x4) and all chassis bearings, upholstery, every part re powder coated, new stainless and polished, greased bolts, and anything that doesn't look factory fresh.

How much of that is for cosmetic reasons as opposed to NEEDING it because the chair no longer works reliably?

There is a lot of difference between an overhaul because the 'new look' is gone, and one because the wheels are falling off....

Some ways I'm more impressed by the chair you have sometimes shown pictures of that you said was your unloved junker that you used for dirty jobs - how long has THAT one been running?

I've been beating on my Jazzy POS chair which is officially around a Y2K model, for 5 years, and have 'worn out' one set of motors (now running almost like new after changing brushes and replacing the brush end bearings (didn't really 'NEED' the bearing change...)) and run one set of tires past the cords... It looks like it's been through a few wars (on the wrong side....) but still runs as (not very) well as the day it was given to me... Actually it runs better because of the mods I've made, but....

ex-Gooserider

How much of that is for cosmetic reasons as opposed to NEEDING it because the chair no longer works reliably?

Efficiency, piece of mind, reliability, and every time I do this properly, it then really is a new chair complete. As such more reliable than one using old motors etc.

So some of both. But to me breaking down isn't an option. I would rather build brand new chairs every couple of years, than run around endlessly replacing tired or failed bits. Do it all, once, properly...

Understandable about not wanting a breakdown - but is breaking down all that much different than flipping the chair? You need a rescue in either case....

For all that I complain about the chair, I haven't actually had that many repair sessions on it, and most have at least been either 'non-fatal' issues or stuff that I caused by my own actions....

I can't really blame the chair for wearing out tires and batteries, or issues relating to my taking it swimming....

The broken seat frame was a pain, but I was able to cobble together a fix that got me through a couple days with it, ditto the arm-rests that broke off until I welded them back on...

I've only had a couple of times where I had to get a push to repair-land, otherwise most of my rescue calls have been from getting it stuck...

ex-Gooserider

Understandable about not wanting a breakdown - but is breaking down all that much different than flipping the chair? You need a rescue in either case....

User choice! I am less hooligan when out a long way from home!

I also Have been reading on the Q6 Edge 2.0 iLevel here in the USA. I am wondering if it as good one also? I am going to do one thing tomorrow and that is call the dealer and ask if you can get a four pole motor. I noticed that it says it comes with a a 2 pole. I do like the fact of the iLevel feature. So I can reach thing in my house and at the grocery store. Also I can be above the stove when cooking instead of at face level with the pots and pans. I want to know what other people think of them?

There are a few reasons that I wouldn't bother with a pride chair. One is programming. And on that specific chair its also small batteries and range and battery issues. And pride don't seem great when it comes to reliability or motors either. And anything with 6 wheel, and mid drive is pretty much out of its depth on our broken streets. Small casters, no suspension on main drive wheels.

As a Pride owner, I'd avoid them like the plague... The ones I have, I didn't pay for, other than through the nose for parts to TRY and keep them running....

Even over on Junky Wheelchair, you will see lots of complaints about lack of range on the Edge chairs...

Other makers have seat lifts if you really want them.

ex-Gooserider

I own a Q6 Edge and it's almost at it's five year mark...come January. I'm in the market for a new chair and the same ATP person that helped me get that chair in the past, used to really life the pride rehab chairs. In the last couple years, according to him, they have changed their suspension (which was a hallmark of a smooth ride) and just really overhauled their chairs for the worse, not better. He recommended the Permobil F3 for me and my needs. There are things that I do like and things I'm not crazy about...and even with a test drive...it's not at all like driving in a personally fitted chair. What would be very new to me is the front wheel drive. I really liked the midwheel drive chair simply because of the turning radius. But it was a nightmare getting over the rather small front door threshold if the front caster wheels got wet at all. Traction only came when I got the drive wheels to the threshold. But I've been happy overall with my Edge...but it's not a new model.

Most of us here tend to prefer RWD chairs, set up to get as much weight as possible on the drive wheels and off the casters.... FWD chairs have a tendency to 'ground loop' if driven at speed, particularly on ramps or other odd surfaces.

That said, I haven't heard anything particularly bad about the F3. In general, Permobil has a reputation of building very 'polished' chairs that look nice, and work well, but if they break are difficult / expensive to fix. They do a lot of stuff that is unique to them which makes it harder to get parts, or to make home-brew repairs...

ex-Gooserider

Hi all, I was just going to start a thread about the Quantum Q6 Edge 2.0 chair when I came across this one. I really don't mean to thread jack but I thought I'd asks some questions regarding the same chair. This thread and most of it's posts are rather old so I'm hoping that maybe some things will have changed over the last couple of years, for the better. I hope. If this SHOULD be it's own thread, my apologies, please feel free to move it. I also apologize in advance the length. I'm under the gun for time in getting some answers to some concerns before an order is placed for a chair so I'm trying to get in everything I can. Again, sorry.

I'm in a situation where I can't really try out or demo several chairs. I've used a manual chair all my life up until recently. My first power chair was an OLD Invacare..."Torque" I think was the brand and model. I received the chair free from a friend who was injured and who's needs changed rather quickly. He needed a new chair better suited to him (I think the one he got was used) so he just gave me the old chair as he was getting a new one.

Unfortunately, I'm not going the option to try out several chairs and demo them. I'm going to get stuck with whatever chair is deemed appropriate from the wheelchair "fitting and evaluation" I went to a while back. It looks like that chair is going to be the Quatum Q6 Edge 2.0 with the Q-Logic 3 EX Controller and Q-Logic 3 EX Joystick. My main concerns about this chair from when I first started looking at the specs were the batteries (22NF ONLY Option). This is the first chair I'm going to be getting Power Tilt/Power Recline and possibly the iLevel seat elevator. I'm normally very active outdoors and always ran into range issues on the former power chair I had. That chair didn't have power seating options so I can only imagine having those seating options (power recline and tilt and possibly iLevel seat elevation) are are going to severely cut into my range with the small 22NF batteries on this chair. I'm also VERY concerned about the programming issues with this chair. Sorry for the background but this leads to my questions/concerns. There IS a programmer which is available on the PDF order form for the chair that is listed as "Q-Logic EX/NE Programmer .... $545 Part: ELEASMB6976" . Because I've made a major issue out of my need to be able to have control of programming the chair, the rep I'm working with who's recommending and ordering the chair for me has agreed to let me purchase the programmer out of pocket. My concern now though after hearing that there are potentially TWO different programmers is, is this particular programmer (on the chair order form) a programmer that will allow me to program "ALL" functions of the chair (an OEM programmer as someone called it) or is it going to a be programmer that is only going to allow me access to a few basic options? Does anyone know for sure about this programmer on the order form (Part: ELEASMB6796) and what level of programming it allows ?

Also, what about programmers available on Ebay? I ran across one and when I questioned the Ebay seller about it he said he had programmed a Quantum Q6 Edge chair. Would the same programmer work on the Q6 Edge "2.0" as well OR does the version "2.0" chair require yet a different programmer? Also, how would I know if it was an "OEM" programmer vs this dreaded "dealer level" programmer I've heard mention of?? One of the programmers I've seen on Ebay was a Q-Logic CTLDC 1609. Does anyone have any information on that particular programmer and whether it would in fact program the Quantum Q6 Edge 2.0 and at what level, OEM or just some basic functions?

There is also another programming option/item listed on the order form for the Quantum Q6 Edge 2.0 and it is listed as: "Q-Logic PC Programming Disk with Cable... $750
Part: ELEASMB5216. Now, I know there is SOME level of programming/setup that can be done via a windows device "laptop, etc" paired with the controller/joystick via Bluetooth. The connection or pairing is shown in this Youtube video below. However, they don't go into any real depth on the software or programming that can be done via this method. They really just show how to PAIR the Windows device with the Joystick Controller. I'm wondering if the "software" being used in the video is this "programming disk with cable for $750" mentioned above from the order form for the chair? I wondering if the programming software is on the disk and the cable mentioned is perhaps for another model of chair that does't have Bluetooth connectivity like the Q6 Edge 2.0 with the Prologic 3 joystick/Controller. Does anyone know or have any info on it...again, level of programming, etc
Bluetooth Programming/Pairing Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISpo1XHFkow

I've also mentioned my concern for Mid-Drive chairs and the horrible "rocking" back and forth when you top or start. I noticed this on a brief chance I had to try out a mid-drive chair many years ago. I was told by a current rep that the suspension had been completely revised over the years and is MUCH better now. Is this NOT the case? Also, In the past MANY year ago I ALWAYS used gray tires on my manual chairs. One day when I was very young my father had found and purchased BLACK rubber tires for my chair because they were considerably cheaper than the gray tires he'd always been buying (and I went through tires like CRAZY. We found out very quickly that the black tires left black marks EVERYWHERE. When I saw that the Q6 Edge 2.0 ONLY came with BLACK tires and Gray tires were not even an option I questioned the rep about this. I was told that the problem of black tires leaving marks on all kinds of flooring surfaces was no longer an issue. He said the materials used today in the black rubber tires no longer leave marks on flooring surfaces like they used to. IS THIS TRUE? I'd hate to get a chair with black tires and find out nothing had changed and they still leave marks everywhere.

So I guess in conclusion, I'm most concerned about battery range. I know there is no option for larger Group 24 batteries, etc. I'm just starting to look into it but does anyone know of anyone putting out a turnkey Lithium based battery replacement option. Also, and I'm sure I'll find the info on this in my digging but does a power chair's controller/circuitry etc, CARE that you've switched to a Lithium based battery chemistry as long a the voltage is 24 Volts or whatever is required. Would you loose chair's/controller's ability to register the battery status or does it simply check for voltage to estimate how much battery/range you have left. Or is there some reprogramming you'd have to do to the controller to make thing work with a Lithium based battery system. I've done a little reading on the Lithium based chair built by our host here and am severely, severely envious and would KILL to get the kind or range capable out of Lithium batteries.

I'm sorry this so long. I'm trying to cover so many bases so quickly as I don't have a lot of time before decision get made and I'm locked into a chair. I want to address as many issues as I can with this rep I'm dedaling with an potentially get him to see that perhaps this isn't the best chair for me if that in fact turns out to be the case. Also, any other suggestions on other potential chairs that might be a better option. Keep in mind I'm in the states if that limits the potential choices, etc. Thank you in advance for ANY thoughts, ideas, suggestions you might have on any of the topics I've mentioned or on others I may not have touched on that you think I should consider. I apologize in advance again if this is in the wrong spot as I don't mean to threadjack. I also apologize for the extreme length, any typos, horrible grammatical errors, missing words, etc, etc, as it's about 3:30 AM and I'm extremely tired and my desire to proofread this before sending and getting some sleep appear to be at odds with one another.


-Soulrider

There IS a programmer which is available on the PDF order form for the chair that is listed as "Q-Logic EX/NE Programmer .... $545 Part: ELEASMB6976"

Its basic dealer only options. OEM doesent exist according to mark at the junkie site. Which is bullshit of course, but curtis who manufacture the latest controller for pride used a new pride only firmware. And as far as I know the curtis OEM no longer works. Since pride keep the OEM programming tool hidden under lock and key you cant get one. So avoid the chair!

Also the seating functions dont use much power. But the seating system is seriously heavy. Eating power. And if you like outdoors, run away! It lacks range and outdoor capability. Its a shopping centre and old peoples home type chair. It also has no main wheel suspension. So you feel every bump.

I have an Permobil F3 so I cannot speak about the Quantum Edge 2. But I have the black tires
I've had virtually no trouble or issues leaving black marks anywhere. I also really like
the front wheel drive. But as you say, you maybe stuck. I heard somewhere that if you get HD
Pride Quantum Edge (not sure if it's the Quantum Edge 2) you can get group 24 batteries. But don't take my word for check it out for yourself.

F3HEAD

1. PRIDE IS CRAP - bottom line - run screaming....

2. If you get stuck w/ 22NF batteries you WILL be unhappy with the range, they are totally inadequate for any sort of heavy mileage use...

3. You do NOT have to settle for whatever the sales droid at the 'evaluation' session wants to palm off on you - or even deal with whatever vendor is doing the evaluation... A lot of people get screwed on this part, I did on my first manual chair while I was in rehab at Spaulding (which otherwise was excellent, and Spaulding is generally well thought of...) I got sent to the 'Wheelchair Clinic' where I was evaluated for chair fit, and mostly TOLD with a small amount of input from me about choices, what I'd be getting... They never told me that I wasn't dealing with the hospital, but instead a specific DME, or that I had any choice in who I dealt with in getting a chair.... There are getting to be fewer and fewer vendors aside from the big chain guys, but it does pay to shop around a bit....

4. Insist on chairs with the features YOU want, not what they want to push you into - this can include brand, and things like rear-wheel drive, and seating functions.... There obviously will be limits on what features might be available on different chair brands, and also the question of what your insurance will pay for, but I don't know of ANY that locks you into a specific brand or style of chair....

ex-Gooserider

Thanks for the responses on the Q6 Edge 2.0 chair. I was afraid that was the case on the programmer and the other issues with the chair. I'm checking but I have a bad feeling I don't really have a choice in the matter. I think I'm getting stuck with the chair. I've raised my concerns but they seem to be falling on deaf ears. I'm making one last effort to see if I can get them to at least look at a different chair. Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions regarding another chair even if they wanted to stay with Pride/Quantum? I was thinking perhaps of one of the other chairs such as the "Z", "HD" (although I don't need it for the higher weight limit..I'm at about 200 lbs), Rival, etc might be a better option? I think those at least offer Group 24 batteries. Would any of those be a better chair? I don't mind a rear wheel drive platform at all either..in fact I'm not to keen on the mid-drive chairs anyway. I got to demo a mid-drive chair about 8-10 years ago and I wan't crazy about the "rocking" back and forth motion when you start or stop. I was "assured" that this issue had been resolved over the years and was no longer an issue and that the suspension was so much better in the chairs now. I'm hoping I'm not already locked into this Q6 Edge 2.0 but I fear I might be.

Do the 8" vs the standard 6" casters make much of a difference on the Edge 2.0 at all?

Thanks, it's good to at least know that the black tires shouldn't be an issue anymore.

Again, thanks for the responses. I appreciate any and all information anyone can give on the Q6 Edge 2.0 chairs, especially current information, although I'm not sure when the 2.0 version of the chair came out anyway.

8 inch casters are smoother than 6 but they are bigger and theres SIX wheels... And non of the pride chairs have ANY suspension on the mid drives. The very wheels you sit on.

The fact that you weigh 200lb means that you need grp24 batteries if you plan on outdoor use. ALL lead powered chairs struggle with batteries, esp today with fancy HEAVY seating on top, so you should at least start with the biggest common size. But the programming issue remains on all modern US pride chairs. UK ones get PG drives controllers so thats easier.

It would help if you went to the User Control Panel (button near the top of each page) and filled in your location - this is an international forum, and what the options are vary a lot by country...

At least in the US, you are supposed to have some level of choice in what you get for a chair... In theory you get 'assessed' as needing a certain level of functionality in your chair, depending on the exact details of your diagnosis... You are then supposed to be able to get ANY chair that provides that level of performance.... This means you should be able to choose among brands, models and so on....

Reality as I understand it, is that the dealer will only get reimbursed a certain fixed amount for a given level of chair, and that gives them an incentive to push you as hard as they can into the products that give them the biggest profit margins... Your only defence is to do some research on EXACTLY what options your insurance will cover, and be a rock hard advocate for your own interests....

Remember that YOU (and possibly any supporting family members) are the only one that cares about what is in YOUR interests... The Dealer has his best interest in how much profit he makes... The insurance companies / gov't agencies really would rather you DIED (you are expen$ive!) but failing that, only want to pay for the cheapest piece of crap they can get you to take....

So -
1. Learn what your options are - go to any local disability rights organizations and ask them, as they are mostly outside the network of the DME / Insurance company... They may not be able to give exact details about everything, but should be able to tell you what choices you MUST be offered...

2. Talk with your doctors and / or PT/OT types and get as precise information as you can about just what your diagnosis is, and what they have prescribed for you in the way of a chair and seating (including stuff like tilt/recline, etc...)

3. Do some serious research on the 'Net - look at both all the models in the Pride / Quantum line, and any other brands that look like they might have suitable chairs.... Use their dealer locators to see who they list as selling chairs in their area...

4. Look up (and talk to) any other DME dealers in your area - just because your local rehab may have a sweetheart deal with a given DME vendor does not mean that they are the only people you can deal with....

5. Learn who / what the local agencies are that take complaints about bad dealings on the part of vendors / insurance companies....

Then when you go into the dealer, be ready to advocate for yourself - tell them that you know what you have rights to from step 1, and DEMAND that they listen to what you tell them.... Ask about the Specific chairs you are interested in from step 3, and insist that they tell you why they weren't offered... Insist that they tell you just how and why anything they recommend for or against is related to your diagnosis from step 2.... Don't be afraid to tell them you have been talking to their competition, and don't be afraid to switch if you like the other dealer better... And last, don't be hesitant about mentioning the complaint taking agency.....

ex-Gooserider

Soulrider wrote:Thanks for the responses on the Q6 Edge 2.0 chair. I was afraid that was the case on the programmer and the other issues with the chair. I'm checking but I have a bad feeling I don't really have a choice in the matter. I think I'm getting stuck with the chair. I've raised my concerns but they seem to be falling on deaf ears. I'm making one last effort to see if I can get them to at least look at a different chair. Do you (or anyone) have any suggestions regarding another chair even if they wanted to stay with Pride/Quantum? I was thinking perhaps of one of the other chairs such as the "Z", "HD" (although I don't need it for the higher weight limit..I'm at about 200 lbs), Rival, etc might be a better option? I think those at least offer Group 24 batteries. Would any of those be a better chair? I don't mind a rear wheel drive platform at all either..in fact I'm not to keen on the mid-drive chairs anyway. I got to demo a mid-drive chair about 8-10 years ago and I wan't crazy about the "rocking" back and forth motion when you start or stop. I was "assured" that this issue had been resolved over the years and was no longer an issue and that the suspension was so much better in the chairs now. I'm hoping I'm not already locked into this Q6 Edge 2.0 but I fear I might be.

Do the 8" vs the standard 6" casters make much of a difference on the Edge 2.0 at all?

Thanks, it's good to at least know that the black tires shouldn't be an issue anymore.

Again, thanks for the responses. I appreciate any and all information anyone can give on the Q6 Edge 2.0 chairs, especially current information, although I'm not sure when the 2.0 version of the chair came out anyway.

I was sent for a custom chair. A long process to get through medicare's rules. But ended up stuck with the Q6 Edge 2.0. My biggest complaint when the process started was that my old chair got stuck too easy and didn't want to deal with that again. NuMotion rep assured me that wouldn't happen. Well here we are... dumb chair would get stuck on a small coin if it had a rain drop on it. Ok, not that bad but you get the idea

So here is my question- It's not a wheelchair tire but I see several 4/4.80 x 8 knobby tires out there. Has anyone tried swapping out the Q6 tires to increase traction?

Soulrider; Listen to what Goose is telling you. My one addition if the vendor does not supply you with the make and model "YOU" asked for. You do not have to sign for what they deliver. When "YOU" sign for it -- it's yours. What Goose is trying to prevent is "YOU" accepting something "YOU" didn't ask for. Sales men in any industry almost never listen to what you wish. If you catch them yessing you to death just leave their premises or tell them if they have trouble listening to you will dismiss them from your presence.

What you and everyone else needs to realize YOU -- are charged by insurance, Medicare, or whatever, those are charged is against your name, with what ever you agree to and accept, there are no do overs.

mleedix1 wrote:I was sent for a custom chair. A long process to get through medicare's rules. But ended up stuck with the Q6 Edge 2.0. My biggest complaint when the process started was that my old chair got stuck too easy and didn't want to deal with that again. NuMotion rep assured me that wouldn't happen. Well here we are... dumb chair would get stuck on a small coin if it had a rain drop on it. Ok, not that bad but you get the idea

So here is my question- It's not a wheelchair tire but I see several 4/4.80 x 8 knobby tires out there. Has anyone tried swapping out the Q6 tires to increase traction?

Never seen anything bigger than 3.5x8 tires for a 8 inch scooter/power chair wheel. Are these wheelbarrow stud tires?

sacharlie wrote:

mleedix1 wrote:I was sent for a custom chair. A long process to get through medicare's rules. But ended up stuck with the Q6 Edge 2.0. My biggest complaint when the process started was that my old chair got stuck too easy and didn't want to deal with that again. NuMotion rep assured me that wouldn't happen. Well here we are... dumb chair would get stuck on a small coin if it had a rain drop on it. Ok, not that bad but you get the idea

So here is my question- It's not a wheelchair tire but I see several 4/4.80 x 8 knobby tires out there. Has anyone tried swapping out the Q6 tires to increase traction?

Never seen anything bigger than 3.5x8 tires for a 8 inch scooter/power chair wheel. Are these wheelbarrow stud tires?

You are correct it is not a wheelchair tire persay and may not even work.

I've not tried this yet so they may not even work. Here is the one I'm looking at potentially trying. I am a bit concerned about the chair having the umph to turn the slightly larger diameter of the tire. The width I can machine an adapter if need be so that is hopefully a non issue. I was just curious if any of you have tried it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marathon-Industries-20047-4-80-4-00-8-Air-Filled-Pneumatic-Tire-with-Knobby/111769492279?_trksid=p2485497.m4902.l9144

Carlisle, Kenda, Duro and others make wheelbarrow tires that size. I have Michelin 3.5x8 street tread scooter tires on my q6. Better ride than the stock 3x8 gimp grey tires.
These 3.5x8 are 15" tall by 3.5" and haven't decreased the range that I can notice.

Bigger diameter ALWAYS costs some range, causes average battery depth of discharge to increase, and reduces torque proportionally. So the answer is that it depends if you can live with the results. going from 14 to 16 diameter is about 12 percent change in radius. 12% less range 12% less torque.