WheelchairDriver

Have any of you seen this new addition of the Jive M? I think it's new. Anyone had the chance to test it out?
https://www.motusmedical.co.uk/powered- ... edeo-ergo/

I'm still thinking for the future at the moment as not well enough to be out of bed yet, but you might have seen in my old thread that I was looking at chairs that lie flat, have a high degree of shear reduction tilt. Previously I'd seen the ultra low max invacare tdx which has 50° tilt and 90-170° recline. This new Jive has 50° tilt and 85-175° recline. I don't know what the permobil f5 has. Similar but more expensive. I'd need different seating to the Sedeo mind. I'm not sure they are using Sedeo seating rather than Jay to be honest. Is probably go for Jay 3 back + laterals and a vicair cushion or a custom seating system.

anyone got any thoughts? It looks like a decent chair.

My other question is whether any of you have managed to or.heard of anyone who has managed to get funding on the NHS for a higher needs chair like this on the NHS? I wonder if personal health budgets might go in to it at all? I'm still not well enough to be hoisted and use a powerchair but I know the likelihood of me getting to the ability to sit up in a 30° tilt NHS chair like my previous salsa M (that also had recline) is slim as its been 3 years since I've been able to sit up much at all even in bed.

It all depends on clinical needs. If you can show yo need it, they they will pay. Is it a good chair? Well they are all much the same but I like the centre footplate!

Even pay £14k towards one? It would be amazing if i could convince them. I mean somethinf to stop me being 100% bedbound would obviously be a massive deal.

My current chair (unused for 3 years) is a quickie salsa M. I thought it was great at first thoufh I found myself needing to spend long periods of time in bed still. Wheelchair services were willing to pay for tilt and gas recline at that point. I had to pay extra for the electric recline since gas would have been useless. They later upgraded my seating for me to manual elevating leg rests, Jay 3 back, vicair cushion, ottobock headrest and protech pelvic strap. I'd need some pretty high need seating again. I am not sure how much back up i could give my case as I don't have a supportive gp (in general) but there was a private Dr I saw a few years ago who was great. What's actually quite frustrating is that because social services left me with an inadequate budget for care for so long they backdated a rather significant amount of money to me. However I've been told I can only use this for care and not equipment!! My social worker even tried to say I could only use it on care I'd already used during that time period (not sure how I was supposed to pay for it at the time!). It's enough to buy this chair if combined with a basic NHS powerchair voucher. Reminds me I was thinking of asking for mp support towards getting it as compensation for this purpose... But it's a difficult one when I can't even manage being hoisted yet so I don't know how far in to the future such a chair would be.

I've only seen a couple so far but they seem to be a step up. Essentially an original jive m chassis with a few tweak. Seating is all new bit looks to have some genuinely useful features.

Yeah, I do think it looks much better than the current stuff in terms of seating. I think for a lot of people the electronic seating system has to be the deciding factor on which chair we go with. I wonder if many of you have ever built chairs with significant tilt and recline?

In terms of chairs I've used a few but am heavily in favour of mid wheel drive for the simple reason that rear wheel drive makes me feel very dizzy. I've never tried front wheel drive. My first chair was a remploy basic electric wheelchair 2 inches too wide for me. It did the job for a while until it fell apart as I hadn't realised I needed to be so Blooming gentle with it. The main other rear wheel drive I've tried has been the spectra plus, spectra xtr, storm (2 maybe?) and storm xplore. I found all of them quite difficult to drive. It felt driving a vehicle rather than moving. Perhaps this would be better if the seating had been more configured for my needs but I even found using a basic jazzy chair that left me folded almost in half due to lack of support easier to drive. Is there something big that you do differently when making your own chairs that makes them easier to drive?

I had also wondered if using a lighter joystick and having it customised might help. My old driving style did the trick but wasn't ideal. I couldn't use the joystick proportionally very well. I think I have good control of small movements but when it came to larger movements the joystick required I had to use a ball and rest my curled hand on top, then push the joystick entirely forwards using my arm for leverage but giving me very little control between those points. If I needed to change speed I used the speed control button, sometimes reaching my non driving hand over to do so whilst driving (had the beep turned off). Any ideas for anything that might improve this? I know I get on better with Rnet and found the dynamic joystick on invacare chairs that has the tortoise and hare on it to be far too heavy for me.

My 2 main chairs since that dodgy old remploy have been an original invacare typhoon (which I genuinely liked), and an original quickie salsa M which I prefered only on account of a few more degrees tilt and custom seating which actually fitted me. The salsa could be very rattly. The suspension was amazing at first but after going over a few too many tree trunks it developed a consistent rattle which is apparently common.

I'll be interested to see if personal health budgets help in my quest for a suitable chair at all in the future. It's all a bit tricky because I'm far from well enough to be in a powerchair at the moment (actually its more the moving me in to one via hoist that is the problem. Teleporting myself in to one would be excellent. Having not moved in any way my bed doesn' in 3 years, along with my illness means that I am very sensitive to movement. I guess despite all these barriers I'm trying to think ahead since it may well be a funding battle (or fundraising battle).

The main other rear wheel drive I've tried has been the spectra plus, spectra xtr, storm (2 maybe?) and storm xplore. I found all of them quite difficult to drive. It felt driving a vehicle rather than moving. Perhaps this would be better if the seating had been more configured for my needs but I even found using a basic jazzy chair that left me folded almost in half due to lack of support easier to drive. Is there something big that you do differently when making your own chairs that makes them easier to drive?

2 things. All production rear drive chairs are way to nose heavy. So moving the user rearwards over the drive wheels is essential to get rid of the oil tanker feeling. And programming means they are all but unsteerable! Easily fixed.

That makes sense. I know others who didn't experience this dizziness but the only way I can explain it is that it's like all the turning is coming from my head (bare in mind I was usually tilted) rather than from under my bum.

Doesn't sound like much can be done for helping this without altering the design then really? Sounds best to stick with mid wheel drive and have it programmed well.

If you can live with that outdoors. I doubt you will find anyone that will program it properly...

having now had a days product training on this a i can say i would certainly recommend if a mwd is what you want. when well programmed it goes well teamed with the "sports" suspension.

Eeek! Just saw the price of those chairs. It wants to be pretty good.

Its double the cost (and more) of what I just bought with seat riser, electric everything and brushless motors etc. And with double the range and 8mph...

The only real difference seems to be low sheer seat adjustment. If that is important to you thats OK.
And the only way to get 8mph is to accept too low torque (see price list advice) so a max of 6mph is the sweet spot.
And if you want the advertised 25mile range, only with 4mph motors. https://www.motusmedical.co.uk/wp-conte ... /36544.pdf

Burgerman wrote:Eeek! Just saw the price of those chairs. It wants to be pretty good.

Its double the cost of what I just bought with seat riser, electric everything and brushless motors etc. And double the range...

They aren't cheap no but the jive chassis is well proven. It has some very neat seating rehab features that won't be worth it for most folk. Also does a similar think to prides ilevel. It will also climb a curb at 3 inches with the seat fully lifted.

I was editing my post above as you were posting!

The Sedeo seat system that Quickie now introduced is the seat system from Handicare.
Sunrise Medical bought Handicare last year.
I hope this doesn't mean the Puma chairs will disappear because I really love the RWD.
I was in contact with Handicare last year to get a Puma 40 R with wider front wheel track.
We'll see...

Step wrote:The Sedeo seat system that Quickie now introduced is the seat system from Handicare.
Sunrise Medical bought Handicare last year.
I hope this doesn't mean the Puma chairs will disappear because I really love the RWD.
I was in contact with Handicare last year to get a Puma 40 R with wider front wheel track.
We'll see...

It's not the same seating at all. Very very different. The sedeo pro seating your thinking of will be finding it's way on to quickie products mid year I suspect. Can't see the puma going anywhere. It is a big seller and in my opinion better than the salsa r or f.

I thought the handicare products e.g puma had just changed names to 'you-q'?

The chair might look similar to yours burger man but I'm guessing that the seating features are not? The full recline and large amount of tilt could be quite significant to someone who would otherwise be in bed.

I've been advised to consider invacare or permobil above Sunrise or pride as apparently their build quality is poor. Whay do you think? The rough equivalents are the permobil f5 and the invacare tdx ultra low maxx. I'm not sure either have anything resembling the spider track suspension though? When the time comes I'll be looking for something as mannouveeable as possible indoors and out so mid or front wheel drive, but I'll also be looking for something can hold its own better on cobbles (theres some naff fake ones outside my flat), kerbs, tree trunks and over grass compared to my quickie salsa M which did not handle those things well at all. The only thing that saved me there was a vicair cushion. It would also need to be stable at reasonable speeds in significant tilt driven by me and at moderate adult walking pace whilst cradled or lying down with an attendant controlling

I cant stand front drive, but for your purposes I would look at the F5 with its stability system. But front drive feels wrong to me!

Not sure who told you that one make is built better than another. If you ask me they are all pretty much the same and mostly use common components and a backup chair and good tech that can fix/program/understand counts for more.

Karma have also joined in with a front wheel drive chair with 50° tilt and 180° recline. No idea what it would be like, how easy repairs would be, or how much it would cost.
http://karma-europe.com/product/evo-lectus/

rover220 wrote:It's not the same seating at all. Very very different. The sedeo pro seating your thinking of will be finding it's way on to quickie products mid year I suspect. Can't see the puma going anywhere. It is a big seller and in my opinion better than the salsa r or f.

Hey Rover,
You're right that it's different from the 'old' Sedeo and Sedeo Pro seats.
It is the next evolution of Handicare's Sedeo system though. The Ergo.
http://www.sunrisedice.com/asset-bank/assetfile/38145.pdf
Available on Quickie and (former) Handicare Puma chairs.
http://www.sunrisemedical.eu/powered-wheelchairs/quickie/power-wheelchairs
I'm meeting with my provider next Wednesday to see if I can maybe get a Quickie Jive RWD base with a Sedeo pro seat with central footrest on it.
I want a wider front wheel track to tuck the central footrest in between the front wheels...
Something you can't get without changing the frame of the Puma 40.
Handicare was willing to do that for an aditionnal 1000Euro...
Due to medical problems though, I couldn't proceed with the order.
We'll see if they still want to do that after the merger.

Doginsea,
Handicare was rebranded to You-Q for a while due for some reason...
Something with some strange European monopoly ruling I think...

I first got a wheelchair voucher back in 2011 and I was given just over £5000. You are allowed a wheelchair voucher every five years apparently so I had another one this year. They have drastically reduced the amount they are giving people now it appears. I got just over £2700. Instead of taking the money I decided to opt for the quickie salsa r2 which is the one that they provide as a loan type wheelchair. This basically means that I don't own it but they maintain it which suits me fine because this is only a spare wheelchair.

I'm meeting with my provider next Wednesday to see if I can maybe get a Quickie Jive RWD base with a Sedeo pro seat with central footrest on it.

That seating setup forces you further forwards than the simple sling back on the salsa. So the chair ends up nose heavy and steers badly. Which is why I didn't get a Jive. Just so you know. It means that even after you move the seat to the rearmost position, you are sat forward.

The amount has not been reduced that the WCS offer you on the voucher scheme. It is based on whatever chair they assess that you require. (think they can get away with while smiling)

If the assess you for a basic salsa, with low speed, 4mph, low power controller, 2 pole motors, no lights, no power seating options, then that lower amount is approx the price they would pay for that low spec chair. Thats how the voucher scheme works. They then offer this to you. And specify where you can spend it and limit you to certain chairs, and often its fixed and they get a back hander. Limiting your discounts...

And it can be based on 3 or 5 years depending on how fast you demolish chairs. The NEW Power-chair Budget is assessed the same way. The difference is that they give you the cheque instead to spend however you wish. Parts, used, DIY, new, whatever. They gave me 6.7k and do similar every 3 years. Based on MY OWN very detailed assessment that they couldn't really disagree with having tried hard in the past... They are supposed to include an amount for maintenance and cushions as you require too.

Doginsea wrote:Have any of you seen this new addition of the Jive M? I think it's new. Anyone had the chance to test it out?
https://www.motusmedical.co.uk/powered- ... edeo-ergo/

I'm still thinking for the future at the moment as not well enough to be out of bed yet, but you might have seen in my old thread that I was looking at chairs that lie flat, have a high degree of shear reduction tilt. Previously I'd seen the ultra low max invacare tdx which has 50° tilt and 90-170° recline. This new Jive has 50° tilt and 85-175° recline. I don't know what the permobil f5 has. Similar but more expensive. I'd need different seating to the Sedeo mind. I'm not sure they are using Sedeo seating rather than Jay to be honest. Is probably go for Jay 3 back + laterals and a vicair cushion or a custom seating system.

anyone got any thoughts? It looks like a decent chair.

My other question is whether any of you have managed to or.heard of anyone who has managed to get funding on the NHS for a higher needs chair like this on the NHS? I wonder if personal health budgets might go in to it at all? I'm still not well enough to be hoisted and use a powerchair but I know the likelihood of me getting to the ability to sit up in a 30° tilt NHS chair like my previous salsa M (that also had recline) is slim as its been 3 years since I've been able to sit up much at all even in bed.

Hi there, how are you getting on with your quickie? As it met all your requirements for functionality, durability, reliability etc?

I am done with Permobil, absolute deathtraps. I want to make sure I choose a wheelchair that is not going to turn around and bite me on the backside in two years time.

Do you drive from your wheelchair by any chance? That's a very important factor in choosing a wheelchair, have got to be able to drive my van while sitting in the wheelchair.