q700r or Meyra mc?

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q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby Scragger7 » 26 Sep 2020, 09:26

Hi, in the process of trying new some new chairs. Wondering whats everyones thoughts/experience of these 2 chairs? I only want rear wheel drive and these 2 plus the frontierV4 are about the only ones i can find with all the fruit i want (tilt in space,10kph,power recline and lift). Being in aus they limit chair speed to 10kph but i believe the quickie and meyra can be increased (if i do alot of reading around here). All opinions appreciated.

cheers
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby Burgerman » 26 Sep 2020, 10:03

The Q700R speed cannot be increased. The meyra? I doubt it too.
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby Scragger7 » 26 Sep 2020, 10:29

Thanks Burgerman, i was told the meyra can be increased to 13kph from 10. I noticed that quickie mention 12kph hour in some specs for the q700 range so i presumed it cold be. If not happy to stay at 10kph. Which chair would you think is more reliable?
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby Burgerman » 26 Sep 2020, 10:50

With most chairs (not scooters) torque is very important its the thing that steers you. Esp important on zero speed turning. hat takes a lot of power. And so is range. Higher geared (faster) motors have less torque. Thats a problem. And higher speed motors need more Amps at every speed. They then need a more expensive high amp controller. And when a motor thats capable of higher speed is used (because it has taller gearing) then is turned down to a lower speed in programming, it simply wastes power. Wastes range. And wastes money on a higher power motor controller. As well as being more inclined to roll back power due to heat. And shorten the battery service life.

Most manufacturers will offer 5 choices:
1. They produce 4mph motors that can be cheaper 2 pole types and use less Amps etc and a weaker controller and lose nothing in range or torque due shorter slower gearing. And smaller batteries can be used.

2. They generally make an HD version of the 4 mph motor, that uses 4 pole motors for the heavier burger eating ones among us to get even greater torque (with a high power controller). This has the torque to move and turn reliably with the fully grown human... This is why HD chairs are always slower.

2. Then 6mph (10kph) motors. These are frequently also 2 pole. That saves cost and uses a lower power controller and these have less torque and are frankly only any use for old ladies and lighter people.

4. They do 4 pole versions of these 6mph motors too. These give the best torque/speed ralationship when used with a higher amp controller. For most people other than heavyweghts. Tis is my prefered balance.

5. Then theres 8mph 13kph motors. These are only used with high power controllers. But for many including me are a step too far. It reduces range, battery service life, causes controller rollback heating issues more easily, and has around 25% less torque even with the high powered 120A controllers. And so not a good idea for most normal grown people. If the chair is programmed properly so it responds, turns when told etc, this reduced torque is very noticible. Because of this its seldom the case that a chair manufacturer will fit these, and a matching expensive 120 amp controller and then turn down the speed when the 6mph motor achieves the same speed without these downsides/issues.

The meyra chairs that DO have speed limoited in this way in programming are actually scooters where the drive wheels dont need the torque to steer in place for e.g. So it isnt the same thing or the same problem. So on these chairs that can be done.

If you want 8mph motors then you must order them when ordering the chair. Personally I always choose 6mph 4 pole as I tried 8mph motors many times. And I really dont like the way they work. Having said that, if you dont care about good torque, dont intend to program it so it steers properly, are light weight, and dont live anywhere near a hill, or do grass/ off road etc you may be happy. Expect more frequent battery replacement and less range though.

Not sure about which will be the most reliable. I would get the one that I can get an OEM programmer for. BEFORE even considering purchase of any chair. Thats the number 1 on the list of parameters.
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby Burgerman » 26 Sep 2020, 11:24

The other thing is that while you may not (yet) be able to get a dietz chair you should read thes 2 threads below carefully.

It will tell you what parameters you are actually looking for and why:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9873

And this one:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7455&start=600#p122818

And then have a big think!
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby Toro » 26 Sep 2020, 14:15

Burgerman you still looking at the Dietz chair as your next purchase... I'm hoping they come to Aus eventually... got to be good being German made.
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby Burgerman » 26 Sep 2020, 15:46

I am, subject to taking a close look. As for german made, all a powerchair manufacturer does is build a frame. And pretty much thats it. They buy in the rest from a common pool of suppliers. Then this one for e.g. as well as the magic mobility chairs, fits a british made R-Net joystick, loom, power module, seating and lighting actuator. And motors made by AMT like many other non german chairs. They buy in wheels, tyres, bolts, bearings, nuts bolts and batteries, and lights, actuators etc from the same pool of suppliers as every other chair manufacturer. So reliability should be pretty much identical across all manufacturers.

Less so it with permobil it seems with many issues relating to their own custom modified or supplied own branded seating parts, modules, joysticks, gyro modules etc.
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby rover220 » 26 Sep 2020, 17:51

They are Dutch built.
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby Burgerman » 26 Sep 2020, 18:13

From their website

DIETZ Power
Vlamovenweg 12
5708 JV Helmond
T +31 492 792 196
info@dietz-power.com

They are dutch. Not that it matters. The AMT motors are german, but the chinese linix motors have the best reliability in the industry I was told by a sunrise medical rep. If you believe this. I have a broken AMT motor. But I wouldnt let that stop me in any way. The linix motors like these are a straight swap anyway... I just bought these. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9969 As spares for my Salsa chair and my BM3 chair, and they are all interchangable with the AMT ones. Also with the 4 or 6 mph or 2 pole ones. Same mountings.

My sunrise chair (a US company) was built (read assembled) in germany, with parts or sub assemblies from all over the planet, and shipped to birmingham sunrise medical who made some more changes... Then to me. So it really doesent matter! All of which took 4 weeks to my door. Rover says 6 weeks? is normal. That included a custom build with parts not on the prescription form, and in a colour they dont offer too. So pretty efficient really.
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby Scragger7 » 26 Sep 2020, 18:35

Thanks for the detailed reply Burgerman. I read the other links you suggested, i see no love or mention of the quickie q700 rwd around the forum , are they not well thought of ?
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby Burgerman » 26 Sep 2020, 19:50

OK... Dont let your brain explode!

The SALSA I bought is really the forunner of the Q700R its basically a freshen up and has front suspension added. Same motors, electrics etc. Different name. I bought a new salsa quick in case they stopped making them. Its a terrible chair as stock like all rear drive chairs. But a few minor changes transform it.

Thats why I said read carefully. I looked at almost every rear drive chair and theres lots in the UK/EU to look at over the years. EVERY LAST ONE has the seat located too far forwards. This is for two reasons. To prevent tipping rearwards on a steep slope and while accelerating with stock programming. And because most of those rear drive chairs traditionally sold with 2 seperate swing away or powered footrests. You must sit forwards over the caster wheels in order that the front caster wheel swinging around in a circle esp when reversing misses your heels. So as you enter a room its here comes my feet. Here comes me.

The net result is a chair thats doesent steer well as much of the weight is over the front casters instead of the rear drive wheels, which are now too far behind you... So its stalls the motors when doing a zero speed turn, heads down to the lowest point when travesing a cambered foorpath or road edge. You can fight it by steering against the curb and that murders the range, battery, and heats up and wears out everything... And then of course theres control on uneven surfaces. Say as you get to the top of a ramp, uneven tree roots, or whatever. The REAR wheel leaves the ground while the heavily loaded casters stay in contact. But the rear wheel steer and propel you... Or rather you spin around or lose control.

So... On all my rear drive chairs I move the CG back, by moving the seat back. May involve existing holes/bolts, or a drill... But one way or another its essential. But to do that you now need a CENTRE FOOTPLATE as small as poss, so your heels can sit further back between the front casters and not be hit by the tyres. And that means you need the wider caster arm spacing on the Salsa, the V4 magic chair, or the Dietz chair. To give adequate space. Then instead of turning like an oil tanker you are sat on the drive wheels and its 6 inches shorter... And now it eats less power turning or trying to go straight along a roard edge, and it has better range, doesent stall on zero turns and doesent eat batteries every 9 months...

The 700R has its caster arms a couple of inches closer. So cannot be done. Theres 1001 compromises on powerchairs.
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby rover220 » 26 Sep 2020, 20:21

The q700r is very different to the salsa. It is based on the puma, the reason sunrise bought handicare was to get the puma as for a standard chair it was really rather good.
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Re: q700r or Meyra mc?

Postby Burgerman » 26 Sep 2020, 20:36

I meant motor, electrics, batts, options etc really. But I didnt know it was based on the puma. That explains a lot.
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