PINNED - ADD ON PACK Step By Step 30ah Pack build / pictures

[expresso]

Pity you didn't live in the UK expresso, I'd buy a ready made charge cable from you Your cables are professional looking like BM's

Still trying to get mine built up so I can get someone to help me rebuild my pack.

Steve

thanks - sorry to hear your waiting for help - i have been lucky with my girls helping me - Quickie has been a big help - if not for her - i would have to deal with my Tech - which he is good but would take much more time to get things done -
i may not have had my full pack redone yet if i had to wait for him - or just about done now -

i still have a hard time with that cover to get it on - always worried when i get to that part - i have managed thanks to Genomatic - to get the heatshrink inside the connector this time - i wasnt thinking - and was using those plastic spacers that come with it - never though about not using them and using just the heatstrink instead - Genomatic mentioned it to me and i gave it a shot this time - i happen to have some heatshrink that was the correct size and it did work -

its a tight fit and still hard to get that cover on - may not be perfect but it worked -

what i realized now is - those connectors come with a long screw which are supposed to be connected and screwed together if you wanted to keep them that way - i know we dont use those screws - i havnt - but just to check - mines dont even reach to connect them together anyway - i may not have been putting them in the connector properly - i just realized it - - next one i make will do a dry run - have to order more -

only reason this came to light is because i will make a cell monitor and would have to stay connected to the other end while i am out to be sure it wont come apart - i can open all the other covers to fix that i even think i know why - but not worth it since i dont use them - maybe i wont even add them in the future in some of them if not needed -

[expresso]

If you knew how long it takes...


$$$$$$$$$$$

Seriously, planning, CORRECT materials, good iron, cleanliness, and a massive block or two of blue-tack is the secret. Expresso, buy 20x more! You can line up connectors, wires, etc and work with everything fixed in place.

Yeah - its time consuming and not cheap overall but - it has to be done this way and cant go cheap with the parts - would be a headache down the line if you did that - i did get a few packs of that blu tack - 4 in each pack - i only used one of the 4 to try it - works very good -

thats not a bad idea either - if doing a few connectors at a time - line up a few - so dont have to keep stopping the iron - readjusting - etc, i know when i make a Charge Cable - takes me the whole afternoon - so i am ready for that now -

i did save a Hour this time - i think it was about 4 hours it took -

now i did realize - i can either replace a XT 90 on one cable to a Male - and make new Balance cable also - simple enough - i have it ready - but i also found a small extension cable with both XT 90 ends - male and female - and i have a 12 inch extension balance cable also - so i can just use those and extend the cable a bit without having to do any more work really -

this would be for charging it - i may test that option - since its a ADD ON - it can easily be worked on - NOT in the chair - 5 mins its on the bench to check or repair etc, -

[Gnomatic]

Great work, expresso! Wish mine looked so nice. I ended up finding a local guy near near me who works as an engineer for a cable TV sports station. He agreed to help me build up my cabling. He builds custom cables regularly at his job. My cabling is coming along MUCH better now. His soldering is *almost* as nice as yours, expresso. (and much better than mine )

[expresso]

Great work, expresso! Wish mine looked so nice. I ended up finding a local guy near near me who works as an engineer for a cable TV sports station. He agreed to help me build up my cabling. He builds custom cables regularly at his job. My cabling is coming along MUCH better now. His soldering is *almost* as nice as yours, expresso. (and much better than mine )

thanks - i checked the heatshrink i used - i believe 19mm - 3/4 ID should work good - i ordered one foot on ebay - just to check it - if its correct - then i can say for sure this size works - to make it easier to close the cover -

Hey if you see the first Sud D connectors i practiced on - they will be much worse than yours are for sure - it took me 3 weeks before i found a way to do it - that works for me - how to hold the iron - position the connector etc,

i keep changing the angles - i first start one way to fill the pins - then turn another way to add the wires - you just have to find the way that works for you -

here is my Very first ADD ON - i believe i have pictures there of those practice connectors -

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5597

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5702

those are both my ADD ON - and Full Pack -

Shirley got me started - agreed to get me a BMS - and set it up with labels etc, to make it easy for me to get started - BM started it all from this Site - after maybe 4 times taking that ADD ON apart - adding a Row - etc, - ran into quite a few issues - i havnt touched it over a year - not sure what it looks like in the bag now thats what i like - do it and leave it alone -

this one i like to fix it nicer in the Bag etc, than the first -

BM with the site - Shirley offered to get me going with the ADD ON BMS - once i seen how great it was - 2 weeks in use with a 24ah pack - i knew i had to do the full chair - i went all in - got the PL 8 then and removed the BMS - added an extra Row of cells to give me 36ah - decent amount -

this one is 30ah - But with 2 Rows of 15ah - its small - compact - and enough to extend the range -

then Scollard was a Huge help with my Full Pack - i wasnt certain with many things then - If Scollard didnt come up with the idea to use the 15ah cells and how to arrange the Row - giving me the clearance i needed - i wasnt going to start that yet - and he helped me the whole way - so many thanks to Scollard -

BM - Shirley and Scollard - got me where i am now - also many others here along the way jumping in with suggestions - and i still dont know jack

its exciting when it comes together in the end - at least i can feel it wasnt a waste turning my living room into monster garage -

[Burgerman]

You need internally self adhesive or some contact adhesive or the nylon sleeve/ braid will come loose....

thanks - i checked the heatshrink i used - i believe 19mm - 3/4 ID should work good

[expresso]

Yes i forgot to say - the heatshrink i used is all Dual walled 3 : 1 Adhesive lined - the glue melts as you heat it down -

[Burgerman]

So before beginning you need a detailed check list of bits in the right sizes, and correct tools/flux/solder/bluetack/sidecutters, swear box, etc. Once you have, its surprisingly easy 2nd or 3rd time! You get better and faster.

[Gnomatic]

what i realized now is - those connectors come with a long screw which are supposed to be connected and screwed together if you wanted to keep them that way - i know we dont use those screws - i havnt - but just to check - mines dont even reach to connect them together anyway - i may not have been putting them in the connector properly - i just realized it - - next one i make will do a dry run - have to order more -

only reason this came to light is because i will make a cell monitor and would have to stay connected to the other end while i am out to be sure it wont come apart - i can open all the other covers to fix that i even think i know why - but not worth it since i dont use them - maybe i wont even add them in the future in some of them if not needed -

There's little nuts you can use to keep the Dsubs fastened if you want. Put some Loctite on a pair an and screw them in on the battery side Dsub if you wish.



I ended up taking them off because they aren't needed for charging. But I could see them being useful if you're keeping a cell checker plugged into the chairs Dsub port during rides.

[expresso]

yeah good idea to leave them off next time - but i was under the impression - they would connect and you would use one of them with the screws to tighten them together - i have to check how that can be - i am sure thats why you have the screws with them - one side empty - the other screws and tighten them down -

if that dosnt work - then i dont see why they are there in the first place - strange - but i am sure i missed something - i will leave the ones i have with them now - afraid to open the cover and then have a hard time closing it again - but from now on i wont add them either -

i dont want to lock it in place - i need that to charge - i just figure i connect it so it cant fall off during a ride - either that i just use a little duck tape - i dont think it would stay on its own while riding around

Oh wait - that little nut is there for that purpose - ? so you would need both ends with the long screw and then the nut in between them both - that wont work for me that way - i though one side would be needed only with the screw and once connected - it would just screw in the other side - that makes more sense to me - i guess not -

[steves1977uk]

I'm trying to buy some flux rosin, but not sure which to get. Any pointers to which I should buy?

Thanks,

Steve

[expresso]

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1


i use this one for everything - i have some thinner one also but i like this better - faster i get it done - the better and less chances i make mistakes also - if you have thinner - i double up on it and make it thicker -

[steves1977uk]

Thanks expresso Would something like this be ok?... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/50g-Rosin-Sol ... 8232380765

Steve

[expresso]

https://smile.amazon.com/Rosin-Paste-Fl ... flux+paste

i use this - and the solder i linked before - but i only use this paste when i do the anderson wires etc, - i dip the wire end in there - not too much and crimp with solder inside - then torch it melts the solder and done -

i havnt used the paste any other way - i used the solder i linked before for the sub D connector and XT 90 etc, - when i tin the wire ends - i just heat the exposed wire with the Iron and hold the solder on it - i dont use the paste for that part .

[Burgerman]

I use resin flux to tin the iron, dip solder in regularly, and dip wire ends...

[LROBBINS]

FOr DSsub connectors you use the long screw in one side and the nut in the other. The long screws have a wider ring around the shaft at some point (that keeps them from falling out), so to insert them you have to open up the connectors at least some, put them in, then tighten the connectors back down.

[expresso]

FOr DSsub connectors you use the long screw in one side and the nut in the other. The long screws have a wider ring around the shaft at some point (that keeps them from falling out), so to insert them you have to open up the connectors at least some, put them in, then tighten the connectors back down.

I never paid attention since they are not used anyway - dont know why i even added them now - for some reason i dont seem to have that little nut with my package - just the long screws - short ones and adapters for the exit hole - and what i think is a metal clip i am guessing you would use it to hold the wires together - which i havent used either

you would have to have the long screws on both ends - with the nut in screwed in on one end - left alone - and then you can screw in the other end to that nut - from the pic posted above - i would have to just use some Tape when i go out and see how that works -

[LROBBINS]

Usually you don't use retention screws on both the male and female. You use them on one, and have standoff nuts on the the metal plate of the other connector whether that one is in a back shell on a cable or (more common) panel mounted. If you take a look at a dsub connector on a computer (assuming you still have some computer with a serial or RGB port) you'll see what those standoff nuts look like.

[expresso]

yes i can picture it in my mind now - but strange that those covers i have and just ordered a few more - they dont come in the package -

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/ ... ND/1104243

[LROBBINS]

I think that standoff nuts are not usually packed with back shells because the usual dsub application is cable to panel not cable to cable. You can hunt up hardware kits at electronics suppliers (digikey, RS, Allied, Newark etc.) or steal the standoff nuts from an old computer board - you'll need to use small matching nuts behind of the dsub's connector plate and screw the standoffs into them because dsub connectors designed for cables have smooth holes while panel mount ones have threaded holes (or welded on nuts). I think (warning, my memory is very iffy) that the thread is 4-40. In any case, it's a U.S. thread and hard to come by here, but you shouldn't have trouble finding those nuts.

[expresso]

Ok thanks for the info Lenny - - at least i know for any future cables if i ever consider using it that way - i am not going to go crazy trying to fix the cables - connectors now - the one on the chair would be the one to add those nuts too - i have no plans to remove it and do that now -

i will have to just add some tape when i use the cell monitor if i wanted - i think once i add this 30ah pack to the 105ah in the chair - i dont think i will ever get low enough to worry about the cell Volts anyway - i may have to do 55 miles before worrying most i done is 44 - plenty left over -

well now i learned something

[Tee]

If I was doing a small add on would I have to buy a PL8 and power source to go with it or is there a cheaper charging set up I could use that would still do a good job charging for me?

[Burgerman]

The answer is probably. But to be sure, we dont really know. Most hobby chargers are garbage... Do unpredictable things, have no PC software so its hard to see whats going on. I would probably buy a pl8 still knowing what I know now.

[Tee]

I thought that was going to be the answer. Just have to save a bit longer. Would much rather wait a while longer and get the correct stuff than get it sooner and ruin it.
Thanks

[Burgerman]

http://www.sinopolybattery.com/main/pro ... =10&ID=367

How can I get 8 of these?

[ex-Gooserider]

By convention, and for maximum safety, it is best practice to look at what ends of the cables are most likely to be 'live' and make those ends FEMALE - as this makes it least likely that you would accidentally short out the connectors. Male D-sub types are less likely than some because the pins are partially protected by the metal rim around the outside, but if you dropped it on something metal with a ridge...

I cringe every time I see one of those XT connectors as they have exposed contacts - only place I'd ever consider using one is to connect something like a motor where I could be positive that the male end could NEVER be 'live' - Note that this is the basic way that AC power cords work - I don't know of ANY code standard that allows exposed live contacts...

As I understand the model stuff, they do try to keep the male ends on stuff that isn't always live, and that the big thing they are worrying about is size and weight, so it is tolerable to take one's chances with a connector that is otherwise sketchy...

This is why I like Andersons, as they are 'genderless' and 'finger-proof' so both ends are always protected 100% - for all intents and purposes there is no way one can short them out by accident, and you'd have to work at it to short one on purpose...

Molex and some of the JST type plugs are almost as good in that they are designed to protect both sets of contacts.

The use of D-subs for this application I think is a bit sketchy, but tolerable in that one can use the female connector on the chair end, since it is always live, and the male charger end is only live if the charger is on and charging - if one makes it a habit to only start charging after making the connection (a good idea in any case) then it is pretty safe and the convenience tradeoff makes it worthwhile...

ex-Gooserider

[expresso]

I went with the XT 90 for a few reasons - but yes the contacts are exposed to start with - heat shrink correctly and they are covered - my main reason for them was its a very tight area and the size and high amps they can hold made them perfect for those reasons -

so far - cant say anything bad about them - they work - there are also some models of XT 90 with an extra tail to them to cover the contacts i believe -

i havnt tried those -

if you can fit Andersons and you can disconnect and connect them easily - then use them - i have yet to find those low force anderson contacts that we discussed some time ago -

[LROBBINS]

The back sides of XT connectors do need protection - heat shrink or caps, but the front sides are protected pretty well from finger contact for both the male and female connectors - the male pins are inside a larger female plastic sleeve so not easily reached. I've not used XT90 but do use a lot of XT30 and some XT60 and they seem among the safest and easiest to use of commonly available connectors.

[expresso]

I first got some XT 60 to use - but never realized how small they are - if anyone wants to use one of these connectors - XT 90 handles the high current up to 120A - 90A Steady - those XT 60 i have i can use for other things maybe one day -

they never concerned me since i heatshrink over it - if its a concern for anyone - you can really use any connector you like - Anderson - XT 90 EC5 - etc, - XT 90 are not expensive either - i happen to like them now that i used them -

i manage to get 10AWG on them - 8 AWG maybe harder - EC 5 may work to handle 8 AWG easier - -

IF anyone is making a ADD ON to leave connected to there chair with LEAD - then you wont have to disconnect it to charge - which you can just use the Anderson and leave it all connected and not worry about it -

XT 90 made it easier for me to be disconnected all the time for charging this ADD ON - only because i have to charge it alone - not connected to my Chair - and charge my chair alone also -

with my other chair with Lead - i dont have to do that and leave it all the time connected - having an Anderson there works fine for me -

Which ever works best - you use - Dont go below 10 AWG to connect to the chair - If using 8 AWG - - may have to use a larger connector thats all

thinking back - maybe i should have used those caps to cover them - i seen them but never considered them - making the connector bigger - i didnt bother - heatshrink so far works for me -

[expresso]

I found these plastic Shoe boxes at the Container Store - its just about perfect size if you use 3 Rows for a 45ah pack which was my first choice - its about 2 inches shorter in lenght than needed - so i got two of them and make it work -

i will duct tape them together and cushion the pack inside - i ended up making 2 Rows 30ah for this one - its enough for me since its going to be connected to my 105ah pack chair -

if you are making a ADD ON to use with Lead and if you can do 3 Rows of 15ah cells for a 45ah pack - its better - this container can fit another row easily and it fits in the Messanger bag i have just right -

cost about 8 dollars for two of them with lids - since i had to extend it - the lid dosnt cover all of it - which is fine since the wiring can stick up the open area -

i am using the same container on my other chair with 3 rows of 12ah cells - 36ah pack and i just stuck it in the bag and left it - this one will be neater when i am done and dont plan on removing it for many many years - -

[Gnomatic]

XT30, XT60, XT90, and SB50 size comparison.



XT30's are tiny!