Rnet Settings - programming -

[Burgerman]

You messed up all the MINIMUM accelerations again... Those need setting high.

You will never have a chair that drives properly slowly. And they dont affect the problem you were having.

Change ONE setting at a time, and evaluate the change. You keep changing everything at once and have gone from minimum acc/dec 100 to figures like 10, which is hopeless!

[steves1977uk]

Why does expresso change everything at once? I agree with BM and leave all Minimum settings at 100 as these don't affect the max settings. Think this will be another one of expressos mega threads BM

Steve

[Burgerman]

I give up...

Expresso, you are not READING what I am saying properly.

You know when you go to the mcDonalds, and try and ask them to not add that horrid green thing?
And they either give you a burger with everything (ignored you because they heard "quarter pounder" and the thought they knew the rest) or a burger with nothing (didnt listen to the FULL sentence)? Well thats what you keep doing!

[Burgerman]

Lets set ONE thing at a time. Ignoring turning for the moment.

1. FORWARD SPEED. This controls the MAX speed your chair can go in each profile. With the controller set to FAST. And the stick pushed fully forwards.
It has no affect to acceleration. Or anything else. Just total maximum allowed speed. Set this where you want it. And test if you are makiung a profile that is slower for your girls.
After you test, ONLY THEN go to step 2.

2. FORWARD ACCELERATION. This is the rate of acceleration, on each profile, with the stick pushed fully forwards. Set this to a setting that you prefer. that doesent tip you out, or that allows wheelies if you want! Remember it only affects FULL STICK and with controller set to FAST. Go test and set this to where you want it. Mines at 100. Most people prefer it around 50 to 70.

3. FORWARD DECELERATION. This sets how fast it slows down with the controller set to FAST, from FULL STICK when you release it. Set this to a figure that allows the chair to roll a bit, you dont want it to brake the chair much. For eg you want to be able to comfortably itch your nose or take your hand off the controller to stik a finger up to someone that pisses you off! Without the chair slowing much. The brake is BACK STICK, not releasing the stick.

4. REVERSE SPEED. This is the maximum speed your chair will go in reverse. When the controller uis set to FAST. At FULL stick, pulled fully back in a straight line. You dont need to go backwards fast, so a setting of 30 is usiually as hiugh as you will want. Test by driving backwards at full speed. Too fast? Then lower it! Only when this is correct do you go to 4.

Why I wrote all this again I dont know because you wont read it...

5.REVERSE ACCELERATION. This is the RATE of acceleration with the controller set to FAST. When you go from 0mph to max reverse speed with stick pulled fully backwards. Choose a rate that is as fast as you feel comfortable with. Not less. This means going out and testing only this one thing.

6.REVERSE DECELERATIUON. This is what happens when controller set to fast if you release the stick while traveling backwards at speed. As you say it tips over backwards and lifts the casters if set too high. Set this to a level you feel is as hiugh as is comfortable and safe. Test carefully!!! JUST THIS ONE THING.

7. Set everything marked MINIMUM DECELERATION/ACCELERATION (forward, reverse) too 100. This controls how fast the chair begins to move, and how far it rolls when released, when set to the SLOW speed. Acceleration doesent really enter into it at such slow speeds. So 100 usually is best. It makes the chair start and stop when you tell it at very slow speeds.

[expresso]

You messed up all the MINIMUM accelerations again... Those need setting high.

You will never have a chair that drives properly slowly. And they dont affect the problem you were having.

Change ONE setting at a time, and evaluate the change. You keep changing everything at once and have gone from minimum acc/dec 100 to figures like 10, which is hopeless!

first off - you cant put the MIN ACC or anything higher than what the MAX is set too -- - the chair was un usable with the previous settings -

what works for one - dosnt work for all - i know no one who has forward acc at 100 - only you claim to and it works fine for you

back to me now - i will reset them again to all 100 - maybe just reverse maybe - the problem i was having was what then ?

Forward speed Max has to be 100 if i want to go full speed - that wasnt the problem - the problem was forward ACC and DECC - same with Reverse -

let me try this again -

[expresso]

i guess i need to learn to read again - you first say to set the rate at which i feel comfortable with - which is what i will do -

then at the End you say set everything thats MIN - Max to 100 - what am i missing here ? if its at 100 i wasnt comfortable with

i guess i am the only person whos not a rocket scientist - i think i leave it the way it is and see how i feel when i use it again - since it wasnt far off before

not sure where i went wrong excatly - all i known i had to either use a very low Max ACCE forward setting to keep it from jumping - which means a very low Min setting also - i cant have a higher Min than the Max -

so its either the same number then - if i feel good at Max 30 lets say - then 30 should be the Min also ?

lets forget about how you have your settings at 100 - that dosnt help me actually because i am not you

[expresso]

maybe other users with Rnet or who have my chair can post there settings and compare - i like to see how many are set to 100 and can use there chair -

[Burgerman]

i guess i need to learn to read again - you first say to set the rate at which i feel comfortable with - which is what i will do -

But to do that you MUST test ONE setting and it alone. One setting at a time, in the right order. As I posted above. If you do not understand what say MINIMUM REVERSE DECELERATION actually does you cannot set it correctly or feel what you are changing.

then at the End you say set everything thats MIN - Max to 100 - what am i missing here ? if its at 100 i wasnt comfortable with

Because other settings were incorrect. For eg forward deceleration was too high, and you think its MIN forward accel... Do you understand the difference?

i guess i am the only person whos not a rocket scientist - i think i leave it the way it is and see how i feel when i use it again - since it wasnt far off before

You think? I thinkl it was!

not sure where i went wrong excatly - all i known i had to either use a very low Max ACCE forward setting to keep it from jumping - which means a very low Min setting also - i cant have a higher Min than the Max -

No. But instead of setting high as poss, you have set some to only 10.

so its either the same number then - if i feel good at Max 30 lets say - then 30 should be the Min also ?

Yes! But 30 is very low for forward acceleration. And min forward acceleration? I have mine set to 100. If 30 is what you want thats OK. I suggest a better hand posituion. Do you have normal hands and joystick skills?

lets forget about how you have your settings at 100 - that dosnt help me actually because i am not you

Correct. I am amazed you can be happy at 30 though. Its like press stick, and wait, wait, etc...

Although 100 is a bit much for some. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/control.mp4

[steves1977uk]

Expresso, here is an example 2 profiles setup...

Here is the file for you to study... (Remove the .zip extension)

Steve

[expresso]

thanks for all the input - i understand just fine what delecration means - and Acc. means - what i think is you are not understand what i am saying to you -

30 may be too slow for you - but its not for me for Acc foward - leaving top speed at 100 of course -

Steave Fast brake i had it 75 before and didnt work at all for me - it was like hitting a brick wall when you let go and front end jumps up - so that number needs to be alot lower to stop fast enough but not overally too fast

I would love to see who else has there settings set to 100 - all of them - ? please post them here - and tell how it feels to use it that way - i dont think many do or can - i dont obvisiouly have full control of my hands arms etc, - everyone will hold there JS how ever feels best to them - it may not be what you consider to be the perfect way to hold it -

this is what i think your not understanding at all - i get what your saying - that may work for someone who is fine in there hands skills etc, - we are all in a chair for a reason -

very simple - the settings you posted at the start - i called them BM settings - those were a Base set to build on and fine tune -

those were pretty much fine as they were - just a minor adjustment may have been needed there -

going from those - to 100 as i had them the last time - DID NOT WORK FOR ME - the chair was unridable at those 100 settings -

look at the difference between profile 1 - and profile 5 at 100 - - somewhere in between is where it can be and still work fine -

[expresso]

i guess i need to learn to read again - you first say to set the rate at which i feel comfortable with - which is what i will do -

But to do that you MUST test ONE setting and it alone. One setting at a time, in the right order. As I posted above. If you do not understand what say MINIMUM REVERSE DECELERATION actually does you cannot set it correctly or feel what you are changing.

then at the End you say set everything thats MIN - Max to 100 - what am i missing here ? if its at 100 i wasnt comfortable with

Because other settings were incorrect. For eg forward deceleration was too high, and you think its MIN forward accel... Do you understand the difference?

i guess i am the only person whos not a rocket scientist - i think i leave it the way it is and see how i feel when i use it again - since it wasnt far off before

You think? I thinkl it was!

not sure where i went wrong excatly - all i known i had to either use a very low Max ACCE forward setting to keep it from jumping - which means a very low Min setting also - i cant have a higher Min than the Max -

No. But instead of setting high as poss, you have set some to only 10.

so its either the same number then - if i feel good at Max 30 lets say - then 30 should be the Min also ?

Yes! But 30 is very low for forward acceleration. And min forward acceleration? I have mine set to 100. If 30 is what you want thats OK. I suggest a better hand posituion. Do you have normal hands and joystick skills?

lets forget about how you have your settings at 100 - that dosnt help me actually because i am not you

Correct. I am amazed you can be happy at 30 though. Its like press stick, and wait, wait, etc...

Although 100 is a bit much for some. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/control.mp4

i seen that video a dozen times and no i wouldnt want to use my chair that way - everytime i touch it - it would just jump - whats the purpose of that - for me - i like the chair to take off fast without jumping up to do so - it should be a smooth acce forward - maybe a little wheelie off the ground slightly - it shouldnt jump up each time - but in your case - your comfortable that way - so its good for you at 100 -

30 is the Acc foward - - Max forward speed is always 100 - the idea for me is to get there smoothly - fast and smooth enough - i can set those to Min the same as the Max - and see how that feels -

or just start from scratch - base line - profile 1 - and build from there again - i will only test it when i go out to ride and see what is too much or too little - not going up and down my apt. oustide all day long

[expresso]

this is what i will load in the chair later and use it tomorrow - profile 5

if it dosnt work the way i like - i can use 4 or 1 for the day - and then change what i feel needs it on 5 -

it was pretty much fine before - just too fast jumpy to take off - wasnt smooth - cant ride it - and the reverse when i stop would lock the rear and lift the front off the ground - not good - cant use it that way -

it has to slow down in reverse smootly - a little roll to a full stop - same for the forward speed - has to take off fast but smootly - never mind the numbers - how low are high they are set - if 10 feels good - then thats the number for that user - just example -

remember in the city - stop and go alot for people etc, bumps alot - which can move the JS while holding it - which would make the chair react each time - in turn make it unstable if set too tight and too responsive - there needs to be some slack - some give inbetween -

[expresso]

i am surprised no ones understanding that part of it and just focused on one mind set - 100 everything -

Start a new section - Ask if all the users here are running full speed on the settings - better yet- everyone who is willing to - can post there current settings they are comfortable with here - and can compare

i bet money on it - there would be a HUGE difference between users - its not one size fits all - yes some basic setting can be all 100 - but to fine tune - the rest wont be -

[LROBBINS]

Burgerman has NOT said 100 for everything. He's said 100 for the MINIMUM turn acceleration and deceleration settings, and near that for the other MINIMUM accelerations and decelerations. He said to set the other accelerations and decelerations, as well as the speeds, for what is comfortable for you.

He has also said to change just ONE setting at a time, adjusting it up and down so that you know what it does before going on to the next parameter. If you don't do that, getting things write will be a crap shoot. After you've adjusted things ONE PARAMETER AT A TIME several times, you will have a sense of what each one does and how they interact, and later on you will probably be able to make small changes in more than one at a time. For now, however, you must be very systematic about this. I have a lot of experience with one particular chair, and know the ins and outs of the program I wrote for it, but if you look at my Oct. 1 post here: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2436&start=3160 you'll see how many steps I had to go through just to adjust motor compensation.

[Burgerman]

Correct 100 MINIMUMS, or as high as it allows you to set. Not 10! He doesent actually read

AND...

i bet money on it - there would be a HUGE difference between users - its not one size fits all - yes some basic setting can be all 100 - but to fine tune - the rest wont be -

ABSOLUTELY!!! And not because they are different, or the chairs are different, but because they are all programmed horrendously!!! Without any shadow of a doubt. The vast majority dont even know its possible!!! All the manufacturers send them out in hit every doorframe "hovercraft steering" mode. At least 99% of chairs are either NEVER programmed correctly (even if they are ever adjusted), just like all yours were not. And because the dealers do not have the right programmers or adequate knowledge. And because of this they generally havent got the remotest clue how or why! So they fiddle a bit almost at random. Usually in about 5 minutes. Non of them will fine tune anything, and none dare set something at 100... God forbid. Almost every powerchair user is running around thinking that its THEM that cant control it properly!

To configure it properly, you need a laptop on your knee. And an empty car park. And a day or two to set each parameter, in the right order, one at a time. And you always want the turn acc, dec, min and max ends set as high as poss, with the turn speeds SET TO TASTE!

Forwards and reverse is a different matter. I have these set the same way so maxed out, so the chair does as I tell it. But YOU do NOT HAVE TO. You set the acceleration/dec to whatever you are comfortable with. You set the deceleration to allow a little coasting, so quite low, so the chair runs on a little like a bycicle or a car because its more comfortable and you have a brake! (thats what back stick is for). But still set the minimum acc / dec to as high as it allows.

Or when going very slow at a bench or in a van, etc, it will not move accuratey afew mm and stop. It will hesitate, then accelerate a little, and when you want to stop it will run on, and not stop exactly when expected at a table for eg. It makes it literally milimmeter accurate without the guesswork. In the same way it makes turning more precise.

[steves1977uk]

Here's the settings I'm currently using on the Pilot+...

Perfectly controllable even with my right foot which I drive my chair with. It stops on the spot without any delay which is how a chair should respond without crashing into walls.

Steve

[expresso]

this will keep me busy for the winter i see - i think i be fine in the end how ever i end up -

i will load the last one i just did and take it from there - Going back to the first one BM posted as a base line - that wasnt bad - just a bit tuning more - i am not far from that base line that i can tell on paper - when i use the chair tomorrow

i report back how they feel to me -

turning seems to be pretty much fine - i just have to fine tune my Take off speed - ACC forward and Decel - - Reverse same - and maybe the Min. forward speed - to keep it smooth but quick off the line -

really not much else is needed i think

[expresso]

Burgerman has NOT said 100 for everything. He's said 100 for the MINIMUM turn acceleration and deceleration settings, and near that for the other MINIMUM accelerations and decelerations. He said to set the other accelerations and decelerations, as well as the speeds, for what is comfortable for you.

He has also said to change just ONE setting at a time, adjusting it up and down so that you know what it does before going on to the next parameter. If you don't do that, getting things write will be a crap shoot. After you've adjusted things ONE PARAMETER AT A TIME several times, you will have a sense of what each one does and how they interact, and later on you will probably be able to make small changes in more than one at a time. For now, however, you must be very systematic about this. I have a lot of experience with one particular chair, and know the ins and outs of the program I wrote for it, but if you look at my Oct. 1 post here: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2436&start=3160 you'll see how many steps I had to go through just to adjust motor compensation.

yes i believed i have all my Min and Max to 100 already on the Turn ACC and Decel . - i did make the Min changes in doors one at a time - the Max i have to do outdoors - and i havnt done each little change one at a time -

i figure i am out riding - i feel how it stops too fast - i know i have to back off that setting - i feel it jumps too much too fast very easy - i change that one also - i make a few changes maybe 3 at once - since its about 3 different areas i have to tone it down -

the section on your robo stuff you and BM do - is above me - i keep trying because i do know you guys know what your talking about - but dosnt mean i always agree - in time -

[Burgerman]

What you are doing is correct mostly. You just need to experiment with ita bit more. It would be easier if you did this with a laptop while outside, one setting at a time.

[expresso]

What you are doing is correct mostly. You just need to experiment with ita bit more. It would be easier if you did this with a laptop while outside, one setting at a time.

its gets very fustrating at times now - i am not giving up - but i want to see how it feels tomorrow to me - with the current settings i loaded already

i cant put everything to 100 the way i had it before - it was un usable to me that way - when i mean everything to 100 -

i am talking about all the MIN and MAX ACC and DECC settings - not the top 3 sections which are the speed settings -

it was way too hard to take off - i couldnt just take off fast and smooth - it would just jump up - knock my hand off the JS - and slam back down

in reverse - very silimar - i go back and stop - chair stops on the dime and front end is up - so thats not good -

the very first settings - BM settings on proile 1 - i copied from you - Was close - needed just a bit here and there - and those were not set all at 100 either -

[expresso]

yes i agree - a whole day - somewhere with someone with laptop and do this all day long -

not going to happen now - so i do it my way as i use the chair - make a change depending how it felt that day

[expresso]

i will load this one tomorrow before going out

i adjusted a few settings on profile 1 - BM settings -

this way - i can use 5 -- and see how it feels to me - - if not good - can use 4 for the day and also use BM settings 1 -

to see how each feels and what i feel is needed - only way for me to know is to ride the chair - and then readjust what i feel is needed - more or less of what ever is affecting me in correctly

dont worry how it looks to you with the numbers - let me see how it feels to me - then i can report back to you -

remember profile 1 - worked pretty much from the start - just need a little tuning - which i did now -

i know i am going about this the hard way - by changing and riding -then changing etc, - its close -

[Top1000]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI40vk8QUMg

All on 100% XD Just for fun, i think the speed is around 20-22km/t.
After this test i set the speed to 14-15km/t, so i can play powerchair floorball

[Burgerman]

I think speed is a bit less, but its programmed exactly the same as my daily chairs, with the exception of turn rate. Mine is lower for daily use. Or my legs fly off the footplate! So it steers and turns and stops turning... When YOU tell it.

Expresso. I seeyou did it again and set your forward acc etc to 100. You already know that this is too high for you!

[steves1977uk]

I see in expresso's profile 1 some deceleration settings are just 10! That would virtually be unusable to me as it must take the chair a few secs to stop after the joystick is released. I know everyone is different but I thought this whole idea was to make expresso's chair drive better, and not like a hovercraft!

Steve

[Burgerman]

I know. I gave up.

[steves1977uk]

BM, you need to add emoticons like these...

Icon_crazy.gif (1001 Bytes) Viewed 5387 times

Icon_think.gif (930 Bytes) Viewed 5387 times

Icon_wtf.gif (1012 Bytes) Viewed 5387 times

Steve

[Burgerman]

I would. Dont know how...

[steves1977uk]

Found those on here... http://avatar.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:PhpBB_emoticons

Not sure how you add them though...

Steve

[expresso]

I think speed is a bit less, but its programmed exactly the same as my daily chairs, with the exception of turn rate. Mine is lower for daily use. Or my legs fly off the footplate! So it steers and turns and stops turning... When YOU tell it.

Expresso. I seeyou did it again and set your forward acc etc to 100. You already know that this is too high for you!

i did not - looking at the wrong profile - profile 1 - 4 and 5 are the ones i will be using today to see which i like and why or why not etc, -

really 5 -

your looking at the indoor profile which seems to be fine for the girls profile 3 -