PL 8 - Q and A section - How to Set up - Use etc,

[expresso]

@expresso: Here is the picture of inside. My dad soldered this DSub, how does it look? I bought 2 pairs on taobao.com through a link that Steve or Sherly had posted here. In reality it is smaller than it looks in the picture. Comparing to your branded Dsub, it is not as good as yours. You can see it is not insulating painted.

2017-10-20_0745.jpg

it looks like you have a straigth run with the power wires out back - that would make it easier - the ones i used and others - are shorter and the two end power wires have to be angled enough to get it out - i would say yours looks like it would be easier in that requard -

[ex-Gooserider]

I have Dsub shells of both plastic and metal. Which ones are better? I know metal ones are more sturdy but I worry about insulation.

The only difference from an electrical standpoint is the level of electromagnetic shielding provided - when dealing with high-speed / frequency signals, this can be critical, both to avoid picking up interference, and to avoid broadcasting noise that might interfere with other stuff. However for PL8 use, we are dealing with DC current for all intents and purposes, so shielding is a non-issue.

It is also debatable about whether the metal shells are any more durable / sturdy than the plastic ones. Most of the metal shells are made from cast zinc or 'pot metal' which tends to be rather brittle, and tends to crack easily, especially in the thin cross sections used in the cast shells.

Some plastics are also brittle, but a lot of others are pretty tough, and might hold up to abuse better than pot-metal...

Bottom line, I'd look more at how the shell is designed than what it's made of... FWIW when I was looking at shells on Digi-key, you could get identical looking designs in metal, metalized plastic or plain plastic...

Be careful filling shells with silicone or other material, as many silicone compounds release acetic acid (vinegar) while curing, and that can cause corrosion that destroys the connections...

ex-Gooserider

[ex-Gooserider]

I am having a problem with the PL8 that I ordered back in July this year. I didn't bother testing it when it showed up (mistake...) ....

I also chopped off that weird bullet connector and replaced it with 45A Andersons....

When I plug it into my power supply (24V, 63A) it beeps, the fans run for a couple seconds, then stop, and the display lights up, but doesn't show anything... I have tried it with and without the USB adapter plugged in. I didn't plug in any sort of battery, or try connecting a computer...

IF I push and hold both menu buttons, or the back button, I get a series of beeps, and a bunch of garbage characters on the top line of the display until I let go.

As I read the manual, just plugging the charger in by itself, should still give all the menu displays and allow setting the power supply and some of the other user configuration stuff....

Do I have a defective unit? Or is it an easy fix? I wasn't able to find anything in the manual - all the troubleshooting stuff is based on reading the error messages on the display, nothing about having a blank display....

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Sounds very broke to me. Test on any 10 to 30v battery, should get a clear display and ready to go.

[snaker]

I also tried a plastic shells and I recognized that its internal is different from the metal one. It's smaller and has not enough room for 2 power wires + 9 balance wires while the metal one has some extra space. Maybe it only serves for DB25 with 25 balance wires. So I only have the unique choice - the metal ones.

I bought DB13W3 on taobao. As I remember, a set of male connector + female connector+ plastic shell + metal shell costs only $8 (inc tax/ship to my house). My dad made DSub cables, this job was not too hard even for a unskilled 70 years old elder. I am charging/discharging the pack through these DSub cables, they are working fine at 20A. After helping me to build the pack, my dad is now like solder addicted. I asks me order some additional DB13W3 for him to make 1 or 2 spare DSub cables.

Looking back the price of DB13W3 tagged on digikey or mouser, I see they are too expensive. I rather make and use some Chinese ones instead. But always be careful when using Chinese goods, my charging cables are actually fitted 4 fuses.

[Burgerman]

Your dad is addicted to soldering! Love it.

He needs a powerful small iron that doesent get over hot, so it stays tinned and adds heat only when needed now.

Makes everything easier in his new hobby...

Fake? https://www.aliexpress.com/store/produc ... 49397.html

Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Hakko-FX888-FX-8 ... B004M3U0VU

I have one of these. I dont think you can get a lot better. I used basic cheap irons for years. But this is 65 watts in a controlled thermostatic tiny iron. It makes everything so much easier.

[shirley_hkg]

A bit expensive @initial investment , but turn out to be repaid fruitfully in the long run .

[snaker]

Looking for a suitable iron to make cables is a whole story. My mum used to work in the electronic domain when TV was still back and white. She did soldering through oil and copper tips (not electrical irons). Later, she found a 'super' iron made in Czech (Czechoslovakia) and used it a lot in fixing TV/radio. Then she switched to another job and did not solder anything since 30 years ago. That Czech iron still exists till today. Firstable, my dad tried to use it to make cables. The soldering result was always ... bad and we decided to throw it into the rubbish bin. Next we borrowed 2 irons from a family's friend who claims himself doing a lot soldering. Both are nothing different than our ancient iron and cannot work. Eventually I decided to buy a cheap iron just to see how a recent iron works comparing to the ancient one. I bought the Chinese one below, 60W adjustable + 6 tips for only $8 (inc tax/ship). It's incredible that it works so well. The adjustable temperature is not accurate but it can be used to estimating the needed power. E.g we set it max 450o when soldering 10 awg wires but reduce it to 350o for smaller wires. My dad is being extremely happy with it.

https://www.banggood.com/Mustool-MT223- ... 77119.html

[Burgerman]

Its better that it has some temp setting. But thats only a power level. Like adding a resistor.

What happens is this.
You set the iron which is not thermostatic, to the perfect temp to solder at say 200C typically, with decent lead type solder.
This means the tip can stay silver and shiny, and tinned and doesent overheat or burn the flux away and oxydise and go all black and messed up!
Then at 200C as you touch a cold wire, or terminal, the tip goes colder as the heat is removed from it. Down to say 100 or 150C. So it wont solder... You wait, and wait...

So now you decide you need to set a higher temp (like you have at 450C). This is not good because as you wait or before you use it the iron overheats. And burns the flux away. It goes all dull and burned and blackened and has to be cleaned up making soldering difficult.

With a thermostatic iron, you can set it to a low 200C or 220C that works for most things fine, and never need to change that. As you touch the cold wire, the sensor in the tip detects that it is starting to cool, accurate to 2 degrees C. And it instantly adds as much power as is required to achieve the same 200C and no more. So it doesent cool in the same way. So soldering big or small connectors/cables does not mean turning up the heat. Although it works best if you use a larger heavier tip on bigger cables. Everything stays clean and unburned. The difference is huge.

[expresso]

i tend to work better when its very hot - so this way i can get it done fast and not make mistakes - i feel the longer i hold the iron etc, the more mistakes i end up making - or more chances of making mistakes -

[Burgerman]

I think you missed the point. You have one. It means you dont need to set it too hot.

[robert97]

in an attempt to better understand preset values for the PL 8,
i summarized a few files in this table: comments?

preset files table

is there an archive site for presets? for the short term i have these:

http://boulderlabs.com/bob/charging/

LiFe020Ah_8S_24V_500thC.ps8
LiFe048Ah_8S_24V_300thC_18.ps8
LiFe090Ah_8S_24V_500thC_20A.ps8
LiFe105Ah_8S_24V_500thC.ps8
LiFeSingle_75Ah.PS8
LiFe_1S_150Ah_Headwy_1stCh.ps8
LiFe_Charge_ONE_10_12_15Ah.ps8
LiFe_FULL_CHAIR.ps8
SINGLE_HEADWAY.ps8

A123_1100_mAh_Faster_Charge.PS8
A123_1100_mAh_Non_Bal_1-5S.PS8
A123_2300_mAh_Accurate_Charge.PS8
A123_2300_mAh_Faster_Charge.PS8
A123_2300_mAh_High_Power.PS8
A123_2300_mAh_Non_Bal_1-5S.PS8
A123_All_Cpcty_Storage_Charge.PS8

Generic_12V_SLA_Wet_AGM.ps8
Lead_12v_SLA_or_Gel_Cell.PS8
MK_12A_XLR_ONLY_73Ah.ps8
MK_24V_55_73Ah.ps8
MK_Gel_SINGLE-12V_BAT_SB50.PS8

[Burgerman]

Theres many reasons I change settings. Both ones you can see in the charger software and some that you cannot. I wouldnt collect presets that way, as you have no idea waht or why I set whaat I have. I make changes to charge a specific pack or cell for a reason. It may be age, to charge roughly full, to assemble a pack, to fully charge quickly to stor the same cell, to measure self discharge etc. It may have wide or narrow voltage limits or whatever, that are unseen etc.

All the stock presets that you have are also very restrictive and will likely give errors on a large LiFePO4 pack such as cell voltage spread too wide and it will limit to .5A etc. Best not to save all those unless it came with a page of notes.

I actually hate presets. Better to have a charger that just allows you to set anything you want and save it. Presets have hidden stuff... some of which I change.

And all the stock presets are hopeless for everything but hobby sized lipos, all the stock generic lead acid presets are worse than useless and will damage the batteries.

[Burgerman]

For lead. Just take one of my lead presets (behind the scenes changes) and reconfigure the user settings, termination point etc to suit your situation/battery type/size etc. This means learning the what and the why of all the settings.

Same for the LiFePO4 settings.
Take a single cell one. And a multi cell one. Reconfigure these for your requirements as you go.

[ex-Gooserider]

Sounds very broke to me. Test on any 10 to 30v battery, should get a clear display and ready to go.

I wrote to Revolectric US and they just sent me an RMA.... Hope they won't scream when they see the Anderson plug on the power line instead of the bullet thing they were using...

I'd be packing it up to send back to them now, except I need to head home to see if I can get our generator going - we have been w/out power for almost 24 hours, thanks to the storm the last couple days, and they are saying it may be several days before we get back up...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Dont you have a couple of cheap ebay 24v to 120 AV inverters? Everthing runs temporarily on those here (albeit 240V) if we ever get a power cut.

Its odd the way it works. The main power goes off. So the the Solar goes off too so that we dont electrocute line men. Or try to power up the town! Transformers work both ways so solar has whats called islanding protection built into its grid tie system. No AC it stops fast. So...

I turn off the main house supply manually. And plug in an inverter to the house. Now the solar comes back too as it sees AC again. So I get 2 to 3kw in summer solar, less in winter, non at night! Plus the batteries/inverter if I need that much. And if not, the batteries get charged. Old stack of powerchair batts. So when night arrives I still have 4 or 5 kwh of power to keep the lights on, bed working, chair chargers going. If all that fails, I got a silent type 1kw inverter generator, and a 3kw kawasaki site type generator. And around 30 galls of fuel. And the van does 100A 12v if required too in an emergence, into another 12V inverter but its only 1kw. But it can run lights, chargers, etc. Just leave it idling.

So far, only needed the inverters, batteries, 20 mins, once.
Since this century started! No idea what made the power go off then and its extremely unusual in the UK. I may be a bit over prepared.

[ex-Gooserider]

Well we came back up well ahead of what the power company had predicted...

Cost us a bit though, as I couldn't get the generator started, which is my own fault, as I hadn't shut it down right the last time we used it several years ago. I'd left the gas valve on, with a full tank of gas, so the carb ended up getting totally clogged up... Got plenty of exercise pulling off and on for over an hour, got it to run for a few seconds on ether (starter spray) but wouldn't even burp on the carb...

Next day found that the small engine shop we usually go to was also out, so called around and most were 'bring it in and maybe a few days' as they were already stacked up with everyone else's generator... One place seemed a bit more open than others, so hauled it down there, and told them about how long we'd been out, and that the GF uses a CPAP and an oxygen concentrator - so we REALLY needed it Got to give them credit, as they got it done in 3 hours, but it was US$190 to clean the carb and replace the sparkplug and air filter... Didn't ask for it, but I think they also pressure washed it as it was spotless when we picked it up...

Ran for about 8 hours, and power came back up at some point during that time.... Turns out that it can be really hard to tell if running on a generator when the power comes back on....

Do neighbors show lots of lights? Not really late at night, and if you don't know who also has their own generator????
Can you hear everyone else's generator? Not when your own is running....

But when I came home from the Asylum, I needed to refuel and after I shut ours down, didn't hear anyone else, so I turned the main back on and found we had power.... However this time, I started the generator back up and ran the carb dry, so hopefully next time we need it, it will be in good shape. There wasn't a lot of fuel left in the tank, but I gave it a shot of stabilizer anyway, and might drain it completely this winter...

We don't currently have solar, so that isn't an option - the generator is supposed to be a 5KW unit, and seems like it is a bit marginal at times...

At any rate I did finally get the dead charger in the mail on Thursday, I'm told it should be at Revolectrix on Saturday.... Hope it comes back soon, and then I'll probably be adding to the list of people looking for presets... (Would it be worth making a page with the standard ones so that you don't have to keep re-posting them, or our needing to dig through the thread to find them?)

I've been waiting to get the PL-8 up and running so I can start doing the recharge on my cells and start building the pack...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Do neighbors show lots of lights? Not really late at night, and if you don't know who also has their own generator????
Can you hear everyone else's generator? Not when your own is running....

Street lights...

How do you power the house? I just do things manually. Turn OFF the main fuse box into the house. Then do what you should not. Plug the generator output into a wall socket. Fire it up, away you go... Inc solar. As soon as the solar grid tie inverters see AC and around 220 to 260V they reconnect and help. When the sun goes in the generator runs at the same RPM but goes louder (more throttle) to make up the increased EMF difference. When sun pops out from behind a cloud and solar takes over it goes back to idle power... Just like our wheelchair motor compensation. RPM doesent change. PC and fridge, and lights, heating (gas but needs the ignitor and pump etc), TV on my bench, electric bed all work fine.

Electric shower, drier, washing machine, oven, hob, probably stop the generator if the sun goes in! And you shouldnt feed all that through a wall socket anyway!

And I charge batteries with any surplus solar that I am not using. And if they are full, I would use it to run a small heater in winter, The grid inverters can have this battery power fed back in (I will connect via an anderson, in parallel with panels to make more power at night as needed. Sounds complex, but in reality its not. And it keeps generator load low as possible. So far its all tested and works as intended. But we dont really get power cuts!

[Burgerman]

When the power inevitably does fail one day, I will be the only one in the street with all the lights on, music, wide screen TV and 13 outdoor lights around my house all turned on. Just to wind them up.

[ex-Gooserider]

Do neighbors show lots of lights? Not really late at night, and if you don't know who also has their own generator????
Can you hear everyone else's generator? Not when your own is running....

Street lights...

How do you power the house? I just do things manually. Turn OFF the main fuse box into the house. Then do what you should not. Plug the generator output into a wall socket. Fire it up, away you go... Inc solar. As soon as the solar grid tie inverters see AC and around 220 to 260V they reconnect and help. When the sun goes in the generator runs at the same RPM but goes louder (more throttle) to make up the increased EMF difference. When sun pops out from behind a cloud and solar takes over it goes back to idle power... Just like our wheelchair motor compensation. RPM doesent change. PC and fridge, and lights, heating (gas but needs the ignitor and pump etc), TV on my bench, electric bed all work fine.

Electric shower, drier, washing machine, oven, hob, probably stop the generator if the sun goes in! And you shouldnt feed all that through a wall socket anyway!

And I charge batteries with any surplus solar that I am not using. And if they are full, I would use it to run a small heater in winter, The grid inverters can have this battery power fed back in (I will connect via an anderson, in parallel with panels to make more power at night as needed. Sounds complex, but in reality its not. And it keeps generator load low as possible. So far its all tested and works as intended. But we dont really get power cuts!

No street lights where we live - it's not a main street. No solar, so no backup that way.

I flip the main off, and back feed through the outlet I installed for my welder many years back, before I got hurt... Quite illegal, but not like they run around checking.... I leave the extension cord I made for the welder, which has a 3-prong 220V socket on the end, plugged into the welder outlet and coiled up where I can reach it... When needed I drag the end outside, along with the generator. The generator has a 4-prong 220V twist lock socket, so I connect them with a 'suicide cord' with a male twist-lock on one end, and a male 3-prong on the other...

As long as the main is off, I'm safe unplugging the generator end, and leaving the 3-prong end plugged in... I just have to make sure the generator is OFF before unplugging the 3-prong end, which I need to do before turning the main back on...

I'm not sure just how many generators there are in the neighborhood, but I know there are a bunch, as the noise level outside was considerable - usually we are pretty quiet outside, but with all the generators in the area running, it was surprisingly noisy, much worse than the summer Saturdays when lots of folks are out mowing their yards...

ex-Gooserider

[sad_vampire]

Last powercut here was notified in advance & the power was off for 3 hours as planned one afternoon.

I'd set up the HiFi to work from the inverter off the Otto Bock's batteries, so had the windows open blasting heavy metal music

As you say, powercuts in the UK are rare, but in this area of Surrey they're not unknown due to the sheer age of the grid.

Few years back the power went off for days over christmas, people were freezing cold & miserable.

[Burgerman]

Wonder what would happen if power was back on, and you left the generator connected and just flipped the main switch on... I suspect it would be expensive and smokey.

[ex-Gooserider]

If the generator wasn't running, you have a very large, but not very efficient electric motor trying to start the gas engine.... If it is running, it might be interesting if the AC phases weren't exactly matched up.... If they did match, presumably little more than you burning gas while trying to run your meter backwards, just like with a solar setup...

ex-Gooserider

[ex-Gooserider]

Getting back on the PL-8 topic, I got the replacement unit in the mail Saturday - which seems pretty reasonable and fast for Revolectrix to handle it...

So I didn't make the same mistake twice of switching the power connectors to Andersons before testing, I did a quick and dirty hookup to one of the power supplies in the electronics shop with standard light gage banana plug test cables... The PL-8 powered up and the display worked, and I was able to page through the various menus with the buttons, so I'm assuming it works OK for now. (I might still try charging something before swapping the power cord over, but need to make cables for it first...)

A couple of questions - I know I have to use a Windows machine to run the PL-8 software - but what is the minimum? I have some 'palm-top' machines running XP (all they can do) which I'd prefer, but it isn't clear from the Revolectrix page if the software will run on XP or not...

Also is there a way to install the software without allowing the Windows box to connect to the Internet? I don't like doing unsafe computing, and normally download anything that goes onto a windows box to my Linux system and then sneakernet it over on a USB stick... If I had to I could connect but it would be a pain having to find all the stuff I'd need to turn back on to do it just for a couple of minutes...

Last, is there any known way to make the software work from a Linux box, or alternatives that work?

ex-Gooserider

[snaker]

PL8 software runs on .net 2.0 which is the same age of winxp. So yes, it can run on winxp. Perhaps you must install .net 2.0 on winxp first. PL8 software needs to connect to internet when installing. It also automatically checks and installs its newest version when running. I think it will refuse running if there is no internet. There is a .net 2.0 version for Linux called Mono. But I am afraid that there is not PL8 usb driver for Linux. After all, why do you stick yourself on that outdated and faulty OS A brand-new cheap laptop already has a newest legal win10 installed.

[Burgerman]

but it isn't clear from the Revolectrix page if the software will run on XP or not...

XP? Are you serious? Windows 7 or 10 works properly. XP was 15 years ago. It might work but its crap, and you will be having problems from day 1. Why line yourself up for trouble?

[Burgerman]

Linux. After all, why do you stick yourself on that outdated and faulty OS A brand-new cheap laptop already has a newest legal win10 installed.

Because he thinks windows is XP from 2001, 16 years back! Or worse. Still believes all the decades old horror stories. Is stuck in a different decade with non functional pain in the ass linux. Which is ok for a phone or something. But wont run anything useful.

I might add I have NEVER had any kind of problems with windows 7 or 10 or before, on several machines, and web connected 24/7. Ever.

[steves1977uk]

I never had any viruses on Win XP when I used to use it as a daily OS. Don't know why people get hung up on the past "user" problems with Windows. Linux would have the same issues if that had the largest desktop market share.

Steve

[expresso]

I would test the charger first - by using it - try to charge and see - i had a bad unit also - i used it once and seemed Odd - then started to shoot flames out the rear - got real loud - hot etc,

but just turning it on - it may not show anything is off but once you start a charge with it - it can - i have a habit of always testing - using - checking anything i received ASAP - to avoid returning issues - we have 30 days i think ? but i dont like to wait no more than a week

[ex-Gooserider]

I run 100% Linux on my main machines. No interest in changing as I have NEVER found a Windows interface I liked, and I can make Linux do what *I* want, and not have to put up with Microshaft bull-

I have a couple of ancient 'palm-top' size machines that don't have the CPU / RAM / speed to run anything more powerful than XP or some of the ultra-light Linux distros - I use one of them to run my Hyperion, and the P&G Pilot programming stuff, and it works great for that... I like the idea of a small form-factor machine for doing things like running a charger just because it's more portable. (I turn off all the network connectivity on the thing so no concern about crackers...)

I really don't want to have to go out and buy a dedicated box just to run the PL-8...

ex-Gooserider