Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

[Burgerman]

Surface postage= cheaper. And the rims only, and 3.50j x 8. Then be ready to spend 100 on 120/70-8 tubeless tyres!

[Scooterman]

Surface postage= cheaper. And the rims only, and 3.50j x 8. Then be ready to spend 100 on 120/70-8 tubeless tyres!

Why are wheel and tyre sizes so confusing? I did read a guide a week or so back but it started off fine then got a bit confusing.

So 3.50j is 3.5" wide where? Outside rim or inside rim? the x 8 = 8" diameter I guess? j = dunno

120 must be 120mm wide where? Across the widest point when inflated?

70 must be 70mm deep wall?

-8 dunno, 8" bead diameter? Although mixing metric and imperial which I didn't think was allowed?

What about tread pattern is that descriptive rather than a code number?

£100 on tubeless, gulp. That is for front and rear? I suppose you have buy valves as well? + spacers + rims + p&p = kerching!

When you get time would you mind measuring the width of your Salsa now with the new wheels and tyres? I have to run the gauntlet of oaps pull along tartan wheeled shopping trolley thingys and gobby single mothers with prams pushchairs snotty nosed kids etc on the bus.

Wider tyres must give a much better ride. How about tubeless, they must be more cushioning than conventional tyre + inner tube.

[Scooterman]

Btw I ordered a centre footplate from rover220. As you say fitting that and moving seat back are first priority. Then testing for a few days then maybe reprogramming? Re the recline actuator; the chair has tilt+elevate and I can live without recline as I don't like the look of that actuator. I'm hoping I can remove it and work out someway of fixing the backrest in position? Also I plan to remove the kerb climber as I think it looks unsightly.

Perhaps when all that's done I will have got my head round the wheel spacers arrangement you had made, rims & tyres. The chair has skinny grey solid tyres and along with the grey wheels aren't a good look and most likely not a good ride quality. I could buy four black skinny pnwumatic tyres for the existing rims. But it would be much wise putting the money towards nicer rims and tubeless.

[LROBBINS]

The biggest advantage of tubeless tires is that they are almost immune to punctures, add some off-road sealant and you can push a screwdriver through without losing air. Those tires that John is using are expensive, but they are highway tires and will last a lot longer than anything made for a WC.

[shirley_hkg]

120 must be 120mm wide where? Across the widest point when inflated?

70 must be 70mm deep wall?

Read
https://www.blackcircles.com/general/sidewall

[Scooterman]

I'm at your service . It is around £23.00 a wheel with 3.50-8 tyre .

With BM's measurement , I can make & ship with those spacers too .

That is an excellent price I didn't realise it was for wheel AND tyre. Is there a choice of tread pattern of is it per the photo? I'm not that fussed I would just like some nicer wheels/tyres to give hopefully a smoother ride than the stock skinny grey solids. So would it be a ballpark figure of what £23 x 4 + (what £70 shipping?). Would they be tubeless tyres? I would need valves as well? Plus of course the spacers.

I must admit I do get a little confused and must seem like a dullard and nuisance, I am sorry sometimes I think this forum is a bit above me. I did read the guide but still don't fully understand? I believe 3.50" the width of tread and 8" is the rim diameter? . Even the spacers are confusing me, but perhaps I'll understand more when the chair arrives I take one of the wheels off.

[biscuit]

scooterman, you're always asking what I want to know so every answer time you get an answer, that's two people at least that have been informed. and you have almost the same chair as me.

shirley-hkg in a couple of months I'm going to want tyres and spacers for my salsa r2 as well, not immediately though, as I am broke plus have not done anything to my chair, so my battery takes up the space currently.

[Burgerman]

I did read the guide but still don't fully understand? I believe 3.50" the width of tread and 8" is the rim diameter? . Even the spacers are confusing me, but perhaps I'll understand more when the chair arrives I take one of the wheels off.

All wheels are 8 diameter.
3 different WHEEL widths. You need 3.5.
Tyres are all different. To fit a 3.5 wide tyre, you need a 120/70-8 tubeless. Those dont come from china. They are bought locally and very expensive.

[Scooterman]

All wheels are 8 diameter.
3 different WHEEL widths. You need 3.5.
Tyres are all different. To fit a 3.5 wide tyre, you need a 120/70-8 tubeless. Those dont come from china. They are bought locally and very expensive.

Thanks I understand now. Without wishing to muddy the waters are your rims 10 inch diameter because you specified 14" wheels on the sunrise order form? Or (lightbulb moment!) was that so that sunrise would supply motors geared for, and bodywork wheelarch clearance, to fit 14 inch wheels but you've fitted 8 inch wheels with 120/70-8 tyres?

So what is the overall diameter of an 8 inch wheel with 120/70-8 tyre?

I found these online they're very nice looking https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=110&cart_id=10004252.110.64590&Breite=120&Quer=70&Felge=8&Speed=&kategorie=&ranzahl=1&tyre_for=&x_tyre_for=&F_F=&m_s=1&rsmFahrzeugart=MO&details=Ordern&typ=R-255800. And not so bad as I would only need two for the drive wheels. What about the castors wheels and tyres, are they pneumatic tubeless as well? Soz you've probably mentioned this already mentioned in this thread, I will go back and have another read.

I think what is confusing me is you spec'd your salsa with 14" drive and 10" castors, whereas the chair I've bought has 12.5" drive and 9" castors. I was under the misapprehension that the aftermarket wheels and tyres you bought wouldn't fit my chair cos of the 12.5" & 9" sunrise spec, but they would! I think I've got it now or am I still wrong!?

[Burgerman]

The WHEEL RIMS are the same on your chair as on mine. Only the tyres are different.

The caster rims are 4 x 1.75 and rear ones are 8 x 1.75 on both chairs.

The NEW rear rims are 3.50 wide x 8 inches. And these need 120mm x 70% x 8inch rim diameter tyres. (120/70-8)

[Scooterman]

Ah! I've got it now.

The caster rims are 4 x 1.75 and rear ones are 8 x 1.75 on both chairs.

I'm glad you cleared that up for me See I was thinking that the castor forks on my chair wouldn't be long enough to accommodate the same caster wheels and tyres as you fitted. And also the rear wheels would foul the wheelarches. I'm now much more confident if I can go down the same road as you.

[Scooterman]

scooterman, you're always asking what I want to know so every answer time you get an answer, that's two people at least that have been informed. and you have almost the same chair as me.

shirley-hkg in a couple of months I'm going to want tyres and spacers for my salsa r2 as well, not immediately though, as I am broke plus have not done anything to my chair, so my battery takes up the space currently.

Thank yo for that they are kind words. And I hope your finances take an upward turn what with it being Spring and all that.

[shirley_hkg]

I can get 3.50-8 tyre only .
It is tubeless and it is the only thread pattern available here . Valve included .

[Scooterman]

I can get 3.50-8 tyre only .
It is tubeless and it is the only thread pattern available here . Valve included .

Can you that would be fine great thanks! And they would fit onto the rims you can get also? How about the front wheels and tyres, can you get them also? Will the front tyres be tube tyres or tubeless? I must admit I don't know what the benefits of tubeless tyres are. I would need bearings as well I would imagine?

Are these all the details you need to get BM's spacers made? (a nod to BM)

And now my lazer cut wheel adapter parts are here. 3 days! And now to mark/drill...

On the left.
1.5mm disk, 8mm ring, 2x 8mm rings to stack and total 16mm as one big ring.

On the middle, these are two steel spacers that are fitted as stock. They are really heavy and steek, and will not be used.

On the right, is the same as the left! Except stacked up, as they will be fitted and bolted together.

Wheel-adapter-blanks.jpg

Remember this:

To fit those rims to a salsa, you need:

Spacer ring:
Inside diameter 41.5
Outside diameter 110.0
Thickness 16mm (used 2x 8mm instead per side)
Bolts inner ring 60 pcd x4 drilled 9MM and countersunk for taper flush cap head bolts.
Bolts outer ring 90.5 x 4 tapped M8 to fit rim.


Cover plate 2 parts.
1x ring, 74.5mm x 41.5 x 8mm thick.
1x cover, 74.5mm diameter x 1.5mm thick polished held on with 2x countersunk m4 bolts drilled through to the main adapter.

All in easy to drill aluminium from here, laser cut to size https://www.lasermaster.co.uk/easy-order

The chair arrives on Tuesday. After I've had it a few days tried it, and decided I like it and want to keep it. Would you be able to sort me out with everything I need to swap all four wheels for nicer wheels with black pneumatic tyres, valves, spacers, bolts and anything else I might need? Rover220 is sorting me with centre footplate assembly.

[Scooterman]

PS:
Shirley_hgk re the spacers and related bits and bobs. If it's difficult or expensive to get done the bits and bobs don't have to be polished or to the same standard as BMs. It's the same with the rims and tyres. I'm not an engineer and It's not a new chair anyway. I just want a chair that is comfortable, handles reasonably nicely, and gives me the confidence + accessibility to go to the places I want to go. Scooters and manual chairs don't manage that for me

[Burgerman]

The chair arrives on Tuesday. After I've had it a few days tried it, and decided I like it and want to keep it.

As it arrives, you wont like it and will not want it as its unusable. And it wont work properly. They are all like that.

Would you be able to sort me out with everything I need to swap all four wheels for nicer wheels with black pneumatic tyres, valves, spacers, bolts and anything else I might need?

He cant.
He can get narrow, medium wheels with tyres, and they will not fit easily. Or at all.
He can get 3.5 wide wheels, without tyres. They will fit with my spacers. But then you need to get the 120/70 tyres here in the UK or online in germany etc.

Front wheels are THE SAME. Only tyres are different.

[Scooterman]

Compared

Is the black tyre the same as this one? https://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=110&cart_id=10004252.110.64590&Breite=120&Quer=70&Felge=8&Speed=&kategorie=&ranzahl=1&tyre_for=&x_tyre_for=&F_F=&m_s=1&rsmFahrzeugart=MO&details=Ordern&typ=R-255800

[Burgerman]

Yes. Although the image incorrectly shows a narrower 3.50 one. But DURO are better. I have both. https://www.shirebikes.co.uk/collection ... eless-tyre

[Scooterman]

Yes. Although the image incorrectly shows a narrower 3.50 one. But DURO are better. I have both.

Hmmm, I've had google but I can't find any duros at 3.50 x 8.

Any chance of a link or website heads up?

[Burgerman]

You are not looking for 3.50 x 8!!!

The ones you linked to, k75, are OK too.

120/70 8 HERE https://www.shirebikes.co.uk/collection ... eless-tyre BUT out of stock when I ordered. I had to order in germany.

And these on the front. https://www.oponeo.co.uk/moto-tyre-deta ... #185121380

[Scooterman]

You are not looking for 3.50 x 8!!!

Lol

The ones you linked to, k75, are OK too.:

thanks

120/70 8 HERE https://www.shirebikes.co.uk/collection ... eless-tyre BUT out of stock when I ordered. I had to order in germany.

Funnily enough when I googled duro 3.50 x 8 I got hit on that site and them tyres but discounted them as being the wrong ones

[Burgerman]

3.50 is inches. They are 3.5 inches tall sidewall, 3.5 inches wide.

120 is in mm... So 120mm wide. Or about 5 inches.
But the /70 is a percentage. So its 70% of that 120 tall. Thats the same height as the ones above. So wider, not taller!

Funnily enough when I googled duro 3.50 x 8 I got hit on that site and them tyres but discounted them as being the wrong ones

They do them in 3.50 x 8 too. And that IS the wrong size!

[Burgerman]

https://www.shirebikes.co.uk/collection ... -road-tyre
correct...

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/prod ... +_80204003
wrong!

https://japan.webike.net/products/2078096.html
https://www.shirebikes.co.uk/collection ... eless-tyre
correct...

https://webshop.lucdebondt.be/winkel/bu ... -3-50-8-2/
Wrong!

[shirley_hkg]

Beware of the chair will be 27.75'' wide , if 120/70-8 tyres deployed .

[Burgerman]

Almost. Yes. A fraction over 27.5.

[Scooterman]

3.50 is inches. They are 3.5 inches tall sidewall, 3.5 inches wide.

120 is in mm... So 120mm wide. Or about 5 inches.
But the /70 is a percentage. So its 70% of that 120 tall. Thats the same height as the ones above. So wider, not taller!

I get it! I'd have NEVER have guessed the /70 is a percentage of the side wall height. So being careful not to make an idiot of myself the width of tread in mm is 120mm and the height in mm is 70% of 120 or: 120 x (70/100).

From the ref numbers my scooter tyres are imperial 4.10/3.50-6. So being careful once again they're 4.1" tread width, 3.5" side wall height, and designed to fit on a 6" rim? So in metric they would be 105/85-6? So in tubeless purely as an example these would fit https://www.amazon.com/3-50-6-Tubeless- ... B073SDG9LL? I'm sure you must have mentioned the benefits of tubeless tyres in the main pages. I shall have a read up later as I don't know what the advantage is, I'm just copying you.

[Scooterman]

Beware of the chair will be 27.75'' wide , if 120/70-8 tyres deployed .

Thank you, I am mindful it will make the chair wider. I shall wait until it arrives and give it some thought before ordering wheels,tyres, and spacers. My manual chair is 23.5" wide and my large scooter is 25.6". But the Salsa will only be used outside the home so hopefully should be okay, but I do need to access public transport.

What would be the next width size down from 120mm?

Burgerman might be best able to answer the following question. Does the Salsa need wheel spacers to enable the fitting of all aftermarket nicer wheels and tyre combos. For example if I was to fit 4" wide tyres could you get away with not having spacers? Just curious, it would give me something else to consider...

[Scooterman]

https://www.shirebikes.co.uk/collections/tyres-tubes/products/120-70-x-8-heidenau-k75-road-tyre
correct...

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/prod ... +_80204003
wrong!

https://japan.webike.net/products/2078096.html
https://www.shirebikes.co.uk/collection ... eless-tyre
correct...

https://webshop.lucdebondt.be/winkel/bu ... -3-50-8-2/
Wrong!

I got it! Thanks for taking the time for the links

[Burgerman]

What would be the next width size down from 120mm?

Burgerman might be best able to answer the following question. Does the Salsa need wheel spacers to enable the fitting of all aftermarket nicer wheels and tyre combos. For example if I was to fit 4" wide tyres could you get away with not having spacers? Just curious, it would give me something else to consider...

There are no suitable in between sized tyres. Other than the 110/80-8. And that is a slightly larger diameter. On a salsa that will hit your plastics...

As for wheels, a spacer of 8, or 12 mm is already used on the stock rims depending on 2 or 4, and 12.5 or 14 inch tyres. After you throw this away, only the 3.5 wide aftermarket rims fit with a home made adapter. The 2.5 wide ones mean no room for spacer or adapter.

[Scooterman]

The chair arrives on Tuesday. After I've had it a few days tried it, and decided I like it and want to keep it.

As it arrives, you wont like it and will not want it as its unusable. And it wont work properly. They are all like that.

Thanks for saying that, I understand

This is a photo from the eBay listing (private seller)

. As it is, especially on solid tyres even to my eyes it looks like it'll handle like a dog. As you mention at the start of the this thread the reason you went for a fabric backrest, as well as moving the seat back was to try and achieve a higher rear to front weight bias. That's why I also went for a fabric backrest and am going to do exactly the same as you. I learnt that from playing around with manual wheelchair set up.