60ah ADD ON build with Pictures

[expresso]

ok - that would give her the most range out of the chair - two diodes - make the most of the small pack and lead -

[Burgerman]

When you fit 2, then the battery gauge should read correctly I think... Without over discharging the lithium. Or at least much closer. You may lose a light or even 2 then it should sit there all day.

[expresso]

ok thanks - i give her a heads up on what to look out for - still waiting on the diodes i ordered - i will have a few things to do this winter now

[ex-Gooserider]

Given that it's Expresso, important to note that you should bolt them together in SERIES, not in parallel.....

ex-Gooserider

No I am not! BOLT THEM TOGETHER...

Its electricity, it doesent much care. As long as it goes the right route.

[Burgerman]

Thats going to cause about 6 more posts!

[expresso]

BM explains which way to face them depending on which diode you pick - the ones i got which BM recommends - the 3 prong end facing the Battery pack

if adding two of them on the same line - both face them the same way - same direction -

considering i do pretty well actually -

of course with help from here - but hey 3 years and 5 lithium packs later - and all working Great - no problems - not bad even for Expresso

[Burgerman]

You know more than the techs, and are the new york top lithium expert. All going great! Yes same way around. We are just having some fun.

[expresso]

Yes of course -

here are the diodes -- same direction - i will connect the two together in the same direction -

after using one diode on my chair - i can say its worth it to get that extra 5 miles - not sure if having two will double that range - but it will make the most of the whole pack along with using the lead more also -

and can vary with each chair - this is on my P222 chair which is light to begin with - so does good range with the lithium combined with lead with one diode on it -

these two diodes will go on Quickies Chair - on a 646se with MK 24 - and 36ah headways - along with this two diodes and the new fuses i got also which are great in size - just what i was looking for - small size fuse and small fuse holder - perfect to add inline on the lithium pack

she should get decent range at least this way and charge with PL 8 so will be kept in good shape

should do the trick and keep it safe -

[Burgerman]

Expresso, N.Y.L.E.

Now with letters after his name.
(New York's Lithium Expert)

[expresso]

Far from an expert but i think i am the only one here doing it here or and even cares - must be just me that feels its such a great thing to do - at least an ADD ON - that would change everything - from now on - at least 60ah - and anyone would be happy with the range -

[Burgerman]

I wonder how long it will take for one to appear about 20Ah commercially with not a mention of where they got the idea?

Much like after I did a page on making a phone charger because I couldnt find one anywhere online. Now theres dozens! Shirley did it first.

[LROBBINS]

If I'm remembering correctly, Shirley had told us about LiFePO4 addons many years ago on WCJ.

[Burgerman]

Shirley did it first.

Quite! He did it first. I never saw it on WCJ? but by eMail directly, a decade back.

[expresso]

Yes i alway remembered Shirley from the start - the ADD ON and BMS - thats how i got started also - to make a small ADD ON and Shirley got me the BMS etc,

ADD ONs are Great for many reasons and if someone is worried like i was at first - wasnt sure - to invest in so many things just to try it - but it was worth the investment to me - for me i had to start from scratch - tool wise - and learn to solder - i almost gave up and then it hit me and got better at it -

i also remember Shirley when i first seen a Picture with the little platform in the rear for his Wife to stand on etc, - i though that was cool - nice little handy item - and i have seen it for sale now - same idea online years back - someone from Texas i think - i dont recall the site and didnt save it - but he did the same thing and selling them - if hes still doing it or not -

if they did an ADD ON - it would for sure have to come from this site - the info. there is no where else with this kind of information - and from many very smart people here - - which is great for someone like me -

20ah ADD ON wont get much out of it - but maybe a start - i think they should do 60ah - 8 Cells - that would make the lead last 5 years easy i think and never need it replaced - since they will get new chairs by then - but who knows - its all about the BMS - they have to figure out how to use one that works and then explain to users how to charge - and maintain or look out for certain things etc, -

thats the hard part - if its not plug and play - many users will screw it up for sure - i am sure a Strong Good BMS can be used - even at the expense of shorter Cell life etc, - they can still manage 5 years out of it hopefully - Shirley has done it and his lasted many years - he always used a BMS -

just now i think hes not and using the PL 8 - he may still use it on other packs maybe -

[Burgerman]

Shirly uses a BMS on some packs, but he doesent use its protection systems, he by-passes those. So the main purpose it exists for is dumped. He uses it for charge to balance cells (badly and slowly) and chooses a charger that delivers a lower voltage than the ones recommender by the manufacturers of the cell or BMS. He also only uses certain BMS that are programmable, and can balance / charge at a lower voltage too. This can work, as long as the cells are reasonably good at staying in balance. But doing all that may be a little beyong the manufacturers and the dummy normal users.

With lithium, the devel really is in the details. If you ignore those its not so good!

[expresso]

yes we know that here - but you know only way any company will fit Lithium to chairs or other items is with a BMS only - so they better make sure to do there homework and have a strong robust BMS made for them -

[shirley_hkg]

Firstly ,
I won't expect a twenty years use of an add-on . They are inexpensive and are expensable. I expected them to be 5 yrs , though most of them last 8 or more .

They are meant for plug & play . You already knew how hard to convince one to follow our steps .

BMS can handle smaller pack.

With your Schottky diodes , now I can easily lower the CV of any 28.8/29.4V dumb charger to suit an add-on (28- - -28.2) , while charging the lead bricks .

Another step forward for people who are reluctant to change anything .

[Burgerman]

The diodes were really the missing part to match the lithium lead batteries.

Without one or them you are basically running on lithium all day alone, until about half the lead is used, and the lithium is borderline too low. With them you are using both batteries. Cant decide if one or two is better. But those are the best diodes for the job, as they are 100 capable so should never fail even with 200A spikes. And 60V breakdown, low resistance etc.

[expresso]

One diode works very good for sure - i will use Two on friends chair and we see then - i would imagine it will be that much better with two - i make an adapter cable with the diodes in line - and then make same cable with out them - in the event they should go bad or what ever - just swap out the cables - easy and fast - and be back in action till diodes are replaced - but so far its been working great for me - i could be close to 100 miles since i added it

5 years is still great for a ADD ON - and 8 even better - larger the ADD ON even better for long term.

[shirley_hkg]

Now I dont have to acquire a bespoke low CV charger anymore . Simply put TWO diodes together in parallel , in opposite directions .
Two way traffic resume , but induce a voltage drop to cope with my low volt BMS .

28.00/28.20V work best , so that average 3.5V for every cell can be expected .

It's certainly a bonus , itsn't it ?

[Burgerman]

I have a "over winter" 12v charger for my van. It has a 13.7V float and power supply setting. I use 2 diodes in opposite directions for that, to give me a 13.3V float, so its kept healthy over winter. or a 1k resistor. Without the extra diode or the resistor the charger wont start...

[Burgerman]

I have a "over winter" 12v charger for my van. It has a 13.7V float and power supply setting. I use diodes in opposite directions for that, to give me a 13.3V float, so its kept healthy over winter. or a 1k resistor. Without the extra diode or the resistor the charger wont start...

[expresso]

If using two diodes - is it better to put them both together in the same direction on ONE Wire ? or would it be better to add one diode for each Wire - in opposite directions ? any reason one or the other may be better ?

before i make a cable with the didoes - if theres a reason to do it one way over the other ?

thanks

[Burgerman]

It will work in either wire, both wires, etc. But to keep it simple bolt together in the pos wire. So that all the chairs 0V are the same.

[Burgerman]

It will work in either wire, both wires, etc. But to keep it simple bolt together in the pos wire. So that all the chairs 0V are the same.

[expresso]

It will work in either wire, both wires, etc. But to keep it simple bolt together in the pos wire. So that all the chairs 0V are the same.

[greybeard]

Don't know how much you've paid .

Taking this CALB 60Ah cell @£12.50 an example , I wouldn't complain to get a 24V-55Ah pack @£100.00.

It costs even less , if you choose other unknown brands.

I won't take lead any more , even if they were given for free , let alone a £650.00 pair of MK gel out of my own pocket .

Can you still get anything like these, Shirley?

[shirley_hkg]

They are easy to get here , but I cannot ship them cheap .

Better to order from AliExpress , like some members already did before .

Post photos of your chair, and let us know your requirement, say how you gonna carry it / how many Ah you want . Then we will share our thoughts .

[shirley_hkg]

JUST FOR REFERENCE

45A is compact .

75A has good review from "snaker" here .

EVE_LF105 is the best I met.

[shirley_hkg]