PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[terry2]

@BM

If this discharge does not solve my problem.
Would discharging each cell to the bottom and then recharge them?

And if I do. Dies the profile you gave me stop discharging automatically?

Thanks

[Burgerman]

No discharging will not change anything.
They balance at the top, when charged. Only above 3.5V.

Just use them and see what happens in a week or two.

Looks OK. The volts are not down! The charger charges each cell at exactly 6.000V to a couple of thousandths of a volt!
What yo see is the cells dropping to a lower voltage after charge ends. Which is normal.

[Scooterman]

The monitor only takes a small current, but if connected all day it will slightly unbalance cells 1 and 2.

Why does this happen? I would have thought being connected to each cell via node wires each cell would be discharged the same amount

Obviously not, but I'm curious if you know why?

[steves1977uk]

Because the cell monitor only uses about 6v or less to power itself, hence the slight current draw from two cells.

Steve

[Burgerman]

It has to be powered by 1 to 8 cells. Hobby people use 1 or 2 cell packs up to 10 or more.

So it takes power from cells 1 or 1 and 2 to power itself, as all the other pins will have nothing connected to them. E.G. my quadcopter is 5S.

[Scooterman]

Thanks Steve and BM much appreciated

Steve - that's why you suggested putting a switch in the +ve feed, or just disconnecting it when not using powerchair or scooter.

Learning all the time

[steves1977uk]

Yes SM, although I've not tried this I don't see why it shouldn't work. Although disconnecting it completely would be better if the scooter/powerchair is not in use or being charged.

Steve

[Scooterman]

Yes SM, although I've not tried this I don't see why it shouldn't work. Although disconnecting it completely would be better if the scooter/powerchair is not in use or being charged.

Steve

That's what I plan to do Steve

[Burgerman]

Remember that it cant tell you how much fuel is left. Its great for a warning when you are getting into the last 25% of your battery capacity. So not really even any need to plug it in unless you loose a light on the powerchairs display. Unless you have a reason, like a suspect cell.

[terry2]

Very early this morning I went out for a mad dash up and down the dual track by me.
I have just charged the pack. Now remember I replaced the connectors on cells 3-4 and 4-5 and 1-2
I also replaced the balance terminals. So what could cause this? Yes all was soldered.

[Burgerman]

You needed to check 345 and 567 as 4 and 6 were the issues ones.

If that doesent fix it its just how it is. Not all cells are identical. Did you use switch cleaner like de-oxit ion all plugs, connectors?

Its not a major issue, use it for a few weeks.

[terry2]

You needed to check 345 and 567 as 4 and 6 were the issues ones.

If that doesent fix it its just how it is. Not all cells are identical. Did you use switch cleaner like de-oxit ion all plugs, connectors?

Its not a major issue, use it for a few weeks.

I have made all new connectors twice for every cell.

I have a new balance cable from revolectrix spare.

I will us that and see what happens.
I just don't want to damage them now I have them

I used that kitchen green pad thing you said to clean the contacts after using 99% achol
I will get sone contact cleaner. But de-oxit is a bit to pricey for me.

[Burgerman]

Failing that it may be that a couple of cells are a little different to the rest. No big deal.

[Scooterman]

Remember that it cant tell you how much fuel is left. Its great for a warning when you are getting into the last 25% of your battery capacity. So not really even any need to plug it in unless you loose a light on the powerchairs display. Unless you have a reason, like a suspect cell.

I'm planning on recharging according to mileage (cycle odometer). And carry a cell checker with me for the occasional voltage check, especially when getting near mileage due for recharge.

EDIT: I did away with the manual parking brake that I never used. The odometer is pretty accurate actually. The sensor is a reed switch and I counted 10 wheel revs, measured distance, divided by 10 and inputted wheel circumference in mm into dinky handle bar unit. It shows, distance, odometer, max speed, average speed, trip time, time. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Bicycle- ... 0005.m1851

[terry2]

Remember that it cant tell you how much fuel is left. Its great for a warning when you are getting into the last 25% of your battery capacity. So not really even any need to plug it in unless you loose a light on the powerchairs display. Unless you have a reason, like a suspect cell.

I'm planning on recharging according to mileage (cycle odometer). And carry a cell checker with me for the occasional voltage check, especially when getting near mileage due for recharge.

EDIT: I did away with the manual parking brake that I never used. The odometer is pretty accurate actually. The sensor is a reed switch and I counted 10 wheel revs, measured distance, divided by 10 and inputted wheel circumference in mm into dinky handle bar unit. It shows, distance, odometer, max speed, average speed, trip time, time. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Bicycle- ... 0005.m1851

That's a great idea

I'm using my android phone and google maps.

[Scooterman]

Thanks Terry.

There's also free cycle apps for phones. I have one on my phone which shows distance speed time route etc.

[terry2]

Thanks Terry.

There's also free cycle apps for phones. I have one on my phone which shows distance speed time route etc.

I love google maps.

It tells me how far I have been\where I am going(planner) and how long to get back
Also I can search for places around me and much more.
And when I get about 100yds from my place. My phone turns on the lights\kettle and computer\TV

[Scooterman]

Oh I didn't know that. My phone display is a bit small for Google maps, makes my eyes go all

[shirley_hkg]

Steve - that's why you suggested putting a switch in the +ve feed, or

Learning all the time

Switch should be on the -0v wire instead .

[Scooterman]

Steve - that's why you suggested putting a switch in the +ve feed, or

Learning all the time

Switch should be on the -0v wire instead .

That makes sense cos 0v is common

[Burgerman]

Distance on a scooter is a better guide than on a powerchair. But be aware that it may take 10x as much energy to climb a hill for 1 mile than it does to run on the flat for 1 mile. And that decending a hill, if its steep enough, can actually put back some energy. So dont rely too much on distance covered alone. If in doubt and the battery is getting low, plug in that little alarm/meter.

If the battery is big enough, non of this stuff is a worry because you would likely die from hunger or exposure before running out of power and hurting a battery. This is one of the reasons that you SHOULD always maximise the amount of Ah you fit when replacing lead. The other is of course that the pack will last longer, can be lower C rate, can be charged less frequently esp if you forget, and so on.

With 176Ah in a powerchair, you dont need to worry much unless you are doing 2 marathons. And even then...

[terry2]

Distance on a scooter is a better guide than on a powerchair. But be aware that it may take 10x as much energy to climb a hill for 1 mile than it does to run on the flat for 1 mile. And that decending a hill, if its steep enough, can actually put back some energy. So dont rely too much on distance covered alone. If in doubt and the battery is getting low, plug in that little alarm/meter.

If the battery is big enough, non of this stuff is a worry because you would likely die from hunger or exposure before running out of power and hurting a battery. This is one of the reasons that you SHOULD always maximise the amount of Ah you fit when replacing lead. The other is of course that the pack will last longer, can be lower C rate, can be charged less frequently esp if you forget, and so on.

With 176Ah in a powerchair, you dont need to worry much unless you are doing 2 marathons. And even then...

Thanks again BM.

I am using mine as normal now and so far so good.
It is great not having to put it on charge everyday for 12+ hours

[Scooterman]

can be charged less frequently esp if you forget, and so on.

In the summer I leave my scooter chained up out front, and it was pain getting the charger and extension lead out every evening to recharge it. Lithium will be so much better because I will only have to recharge it every few days, sometimes maybe not for a fortnight or more if I'm using the Salsa to pop into town.
Main reason for scooter lithium is range, and all day road trips in summer without fear of running out of juice or ruining the batteries.

[Scooterman]

Went for my first blast in lithium powered scooter this afternoon. What a difference, 30-40% more performance!!! Top speed is still the same, which it obviously would be, BUT scooter has got far more grunt than on the old lead acids. It flies up steep hills with barely any drop-off in speed. Win-win in terms of more power and lighter batteries. Couldn't go back to lead now.

Next project is to do the Salsa when funds allow. Now I've done it once, second time should be easier with less mistakes on my part. Plan to go for a long run at the weekend if weather holds. Then recharge and work out Ah/mile and approximate range of cells.

[expresso]

now this is ASS Power - !!!

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 35050.html

another 180ah Cell that should fit most chairs -

i know - dosnt say ASS - but have to say at a quick glance - first thing to my mind was ASS


i will be testing some 100ah Cells soon - i post back on the results - not sure what i am going to use them for - but curious to see if 16 of them fit my battery tray - if not - guess what - 100ah ADD ON

or can mix and match to use up the space -

[Burgerman]

Or 200Ah ... an additional 10 miles...

https://szaspower.en.alibaba.com/produc ... 1f41HzY08D

[terry2]

Or 200Ah ... an additional 10 miles...

https://szaspower.en.alibaba.com/produc ... 1f41HzY08D

Looks great.

Question. My cells are 176ah they could be 200ah.
Is there a way of finding out?

[Burgerman]

The way to find the full capacity is to measure it.

That would mean discharging it from 100% charged to 2V per cell which is not good for them.

The safe way is to discharge to 2.9V and then estimate that theres about 5% remaining.

The PL8 can do that. And it will take 2 days...

The real issue is this.
Are the 176Ah cells, USED 200Ah cells, being sold as new 176Ah ones... We dont know. But also are the 200Ah ones the correct capacity, and the 200Ah ones typical chinese rounding up "errors" so they sell more. Few people have equipment to test. And the answer is: Nobody knows!

[terry2]

The way to find the full capacity is to measure it.

That would mean discharging it from 100% charged to 2V per cell which is not good for them.

The safe way is to discharge to 2.9V and then estimate that theres about 5% remaining.

The PL8 can do that. And it will take 2 days...

The real issue is this.
Are the 176Ah cells, USED 200Ah cells, being sold as new 176Ah ones... We dont know. But also are the 200Ah ones the correct capacity, and the 200Ah ones typical chinese rounding up "errors" so they sell more. Few people have equipment to test. And the answer is: Nobody knows!

Thank you.

[terry2]

Today I changed over cells.
I put the top 4 5\6\7\8 at the bottom, so they are now 4\3\2\0 and this is the graph

I did zoom in of the graph. Trying to work out what I am doing wrong?
I did use cleaner and contact cleaner ect.