PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[expresso]

https://smile.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls ... e=wishlist

this is what i though was good to use - ? is this good or no good -

https://smile.amazon.com/binifiMux-30Pc ... 35&sr=8-14

[Burgerman]

Seems so hard!
You need:
STAINLESS NYLOC 6MM NUT!
A STAINLESS FLAT WASHER!
A STAINLESS M6 STUD, with permanant loctite so it never moves or corrodes.

[expresso]

not hard at all - thats what i though also - but then i read not to use nylon lock nut - so two different things -

the links above are correct then - nylon nuts - ?

i recall you said one time also - dont use nylon nut either - not long ago few posts back i believe - the story did change a few times

[expresso]

i measured two ring terminals and a nylon nut together - comes to about 10mm - this depends on the ring terminals used- some can be thinner or thicker -- this means i should use at least a 16mm screw or 18mm so that at least 10mm is exposed on top if i am correct - depending how deep you can screw in -

[LROBBINS]

No, you didn't read ex-Goose's message carefully enough. If you use two nuts, one to hold down the ring terminal and a second (jam nut) to lock the first, the bottom one should not be a nyloc. The jam nut probably shouldn't be nyloc either, and certainly doesn't have to be a nyloc, as the locking comes from the two nuts distorting, very slightly, each other's threads. Often, one chooses an extra thin nut for the jam function as it's not load bearing.

Basically, nyloc and nut+jam nut are alternatives. In critical applications nyloc is considered "loosen once and throw away" while the double nut setup is reusable. In high heat applications (e.g. an aircraft engine compartment), nylocs are a no-no, and jam nuts are also considered less than 100% reliable (you might not torque them correctly) so old-fashioned stainless safety wire through drilled holes is still used for really critical stuff - like propeller bolts. There are also all-metal locking nuts, but they are hard to find and costly (aircraft stuff is overpriced just like handicapper stuff).

[terry2]

I have got these coming https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07 ... UTF8&psc=1
As the ones off ebay was 8mm in length, which is to much.

I have 12\14\16mm studs so I should be ok there.
And my Helicoil kit has come with the right tap
I have green Loctite. So ok there too
So...to the stripped threads...come at me bro

[Burgerman]

Correct NYLOC nuts. Not NYLON nuts!!!

[terry2]

Correct NYLOC nuts. Not NYLON nuts!!!

I am learning BM...very slowly but I'm getting there

[expresso]

thanks for explanation - i am learning also - so will make mistakes for sure - matter of fact - i had a new yesterday i never had - not too bad -

[terry2]

I have got everything now to tackle the stripped thread and studs\ gluing the studs in.
I think I will wait till I need to.

[Scooterman]

A few whacks with one of these will bed stud down nice and snug

[Gnomatic]

I have got everything now to tackle the stripped thread and studs\ gluing the studs in.
I think I will wait till I need to.

Good luck terry. I'm curious to know which length of grub screws is optimal for your cells.

[Burgerman]

Threaded studs.

A grub screw is a short screw, used to tighten against a shaft, or to lock something in place like a pulley on a shaft for e.g. and can have various head types. Often hex, some are slotted, some square but are short, designed to lock something in a hole without protruding.

Heres a google page showing them. https://www.google.com/search?q=grub+sc ... 25#imgrc=_

Heres an image of them.

[expresso]

which green locktite to get - i find many with different numbers ?

[Burgerman]

I am using a bottle of 2700 and it replaced my 270... Not sure what the difference is.

[expresso]

the 270 is what i have in my cart - i see dozens of different numbers all green - i noticed its the cure time - some are very fast - some more time - maybe can fix a mistake

is it messy or same as blue - worry about getting it on top of post how do you clean if off if you do

[Gnomatic]

I just got some Green 290. Haven't used it yet.

[expresso]

i just ordered the grub screws 20mm long - seller tells me - its about 8 mm deep and 8nm to 10nm to tighten it down - i will see how it feels

i figure 8 mm inside leaving 12mm exposed - more than enough to add a few ring terminals if needed - room to spare - less than half inch exposed

giving me a 8 1/2 inch total - one inch lower than MK Gels - if all goes as planned -

[terry2]

I have got everything now to tackle the stripped thread and studs\ gluing the studs in.
I think I will wait till I need to.

Good luck terry. I'm curious to know which length of grub screws is optimal for your cells.

Thanks dude.
I have just turned my workshop back in to my front room. So I will start after Easter

I am using a bottle of 2700 and it replaced my 270... Not sure what the difference is.

I got the green 2700 as well.

I am going to make sure that each thread is min 10mm deep. I may have to drill and tap a few.
My NYLOC nuts are 6mm in height and I'm going to use the buss bars which are 2mm thick.

That's if I can fit the height of them in my battery tray.

[Burgerman]

I'm going to use the buss bars which are 2mm thick.

No. Big mistake. Too rigid, and they will not make good contact for long as they will lever against each other and not sit flat enough, and with movement as you drive off a curb, or due to heat/cold will loosen.
Use ring terminals and cable.

[Scooterman]

I think that's a downside to individual lithium cells. The shake rattle and roll can upset the connections.

It's a shame you can't buy pre-built cell packs with spot welded flexible connections that would still allow balance wires to be connected.

But probably wouldn't be much use to anyone apart from us lot

Did another 30 mile road trip yesterday. Last time i charged i noticed cell 1 IR was slightly high so i need to check that connection. It still balanced okay though. I wonder if the -ve lead has been vibrating due to bumps and loosened connection slightly?



30 miles is about the limit of my endurance I'm afraid . I can't match the distances of you guys.

Come the bad weather ill look at redoing all my connections. I didn't realise how much abuse bad roads and rough ground inflict on scooter and everything in/on it.

[Scooterman]

Back on the subject of bash hats. I saw some motorcyclists with this style of helmet. Really long tassels, right down back. They pretty cool

https://www.etsy.com/au/market/predator_helmet

[terry2]

I'm going to use the buss bars which are 2mm thick.

No. Big mistake. Too rigid, and they will not make good contact for long as they will lever against each other and not sit flat enough, and with movement as you drive off a curb, or due to heat/cold will loosen.
Use ring terminals and cable.

I know what you mean.
But the ones I have are flexible in he middle.
Also I have had my best graphs using them. I have tried making my own contacts 6 times now.
But for what ever reason, the cells seam to like the buss bars

[expresso]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Threadlocker-2 ... SwUM5aEn~1

would this model locktite work as well ?

also why would the blue locktite we used on headways - not work just as well for the grub screws etc, ?

[Burgerman]

By grub screw, you actually mean a threaded stud dont you?
Because a grub screw is a short screw, with pointed end, ir a nylon insert end, a thing used to tighten against a shaft to lock a wheel or pully or something in place. Thats not what we are doing with a battery.

Thats not a permanant thread lock.

Threadlocker Disassembly Removable,

It MAY work, a bit like your blue one but probably harder to undo. But it also may unscrew when you knock a ring terminal, or try to undo a nyloc style nut - which we do not want.

[expresso]

i understand its not perm.. thing is - we used blue on the headways - and never had an issue - of course - if you remove - you have to reapply

i figured once you build the pack - once screwed down nylon lock nut once - done- never have to remove that only if you have a issue of some sort -

i dont see it coming loose on its own once done once and left alone - - i just feel iffy using something perm. and then figure out i have to remove it or what ever =

[LROBBINS]

Although a grub screw is usually a "set screw" as Burgerman describes, they actually come in sharp point, cup point, dowel point and flat end varieties and in long lengths as well. Here's an example:

The flat end type, normally used to lock something on a flatted shaft, can be used as a stud and because they have a tool fitting at the other end they are easier to install than plain studs (for those, it helps to first put on a pair of nuts and tighten them against each other) and, if for a hex key, you can use the key to keep them from turning, even with removable loktite, while installing or removing terminals.

[Burgerman]

On a set screw, or a "grub" screw, designed as a locking screw to keep a wheel or pulley or whatever on a shaft, or in the case of a headway, or a wheelchair part on any bolt or nut, the weaker blue, or that green non permanant loctite is the best choice. So that you can undo with hand tools. But that can come loose as you undo a nyloc nut too. So wrong choice here on a threaded stud, fitted into a cell..

On a engine block, as a mounting point for something like an oil pump, or bell housing, manifold, wheel stud, or any place you want a reliable permanant threaded stud to leave you with a thread to use as a mounting point, that you never want to move or come loose, or to strip/fret or wear because of that, such as in the cells you are talking about with a weak alloy shallow thread -- Then you want a permanant loctite to be sure that it is never coming undone in error. So that a never removable permanant green one is best. It takes heat to remove. You dont ever want to remove from a cell.

When short of the ideal correct solution in the past, I used touch up paint, GFs nail varnish, superglue, and other things... All these things will work to a degree. And all are better than nothing.
But if its available, its best to use the right thing. You never want or need those studs out. So fit once, forever. Then no more bad threads...

[expresso]

I Guess - i havnt made my mind just yet - with the grub screws i ordered some which are cup end i believe - 20mm long - will fit 8mm inside and leave 12mm exposed - i see when i get them with the cells and test one - good enough for a few ring terminals and nut on top -

your choice is Green 270 ? i will test fit and measure how high it is - i like it to be less than 9 inches high total - i feel better that way

[Scooterman]

Is it possible to build your own PSU for powering the PL8?

For travelling purposes I've always thought it would be great if a high amperage basic 240/30v power supply (110/30v US and elsewhere) could be permanently mounted on or inside mobility device's bodywork? I have room for that on my scooter. It would save having to lug a separate PSU along with the PL8.

The PL8 by itself is light and relatively dinky.

Could a DIY PSU be as simple as a 240/30v transformer, bridge rectifier, smoothing capacitor, and say zenner diode for volt regulation? Or is it a bit more involved than that?

I'm wondering whether (along with it's many other talents) the PL8 can cope with a less than perfect more basic DC supply?

NB: My electronic knowledge is very rudimentary.